Ortofon 2M Black Measurements and Optimal Loading

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by purr1n, Apr 16, 2016.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The Ortofon 2M Black is well known as a bright cartridge. Well, hopefully it's known as a bright cartridge because if you read the various "reviews" out there, perhaps only one says that it sound bright. So I decided to make some measurements to confirm. I had some issues getting accurate measurements below 500Hz, so these graphs go from 500Hz to 20kHz. Measuring vinyl setups is still new to me. I am sure that in time, I will get better at it, just like how I did with headphones. I used to Analogue Production Ultimate Analogue Test LP. The phonostage I used was the RSA F117 Nighthawk, which was damn accurate when I measured it with a reverse RIAA filter.

    Ortofon 2M Black Frequency Response
    Load: 220pF, 47k ohm load
    Top: lateral pink noise
    Bottom: vertical pink noise
    2M Black 47k.png

    To be continued
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    So I wired up a gimzo (see Ratshack splitter below) to play around with different loads. I effectively put a 220k ohm resistor in parallel with the 47k to create a 38k ohm load. As we can see in the graphs below, result is a little bit better. We could probably go a bit lower to 35k or 30k but this is good enough and I was worried about killing off too much of the top end.
    20160416_124040.jpg

    Ortofon 2M Black Frequency Response
    Load: 220pF, 38k ohm load
    Top: lateral pink noise
    Bottom: vertical pink noise
    2M Black 38k.png
     
  3. keanex

    keanex Martian Bounty Hunter - Friend

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    Whoa, cool. I'm super interested in seeing more of these. I'd love to see the Grado Black measured
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yup, stuff like this certainly takes a lot of audiophoolisticstry out of the equation. Ortofon specifies a optimal load of 47k ohms for this cartridge, but it should really be somewhere in between 33k to 40k ohms. A problem is that few affordable phonostages will offer a wide range of loading options, but there are ways around it with a soldering iron and 2 cent resistor.
     
  5. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Even the first ones weren't bright for a cartridge. Is it worse that the 2M black bump is typically (I know it depends on the load) at 10k? I know the resonance is usually way higher (but also much higher in amplitude).

    I'm assuming that the 220pf load is without the cable, is it?

    EDIT: Can we see the same 38.788kOhm load with a lower load capacitance?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'm running about 2.5 ft. of Mogami W2552, which is 10 poofs per foot. That's about 25 poofs for the length. So total capacitance should be about 255 poofs + tonearm wire capacitance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  7. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    What are your subjective impressions? How does this stack up against the Red?
     
  8. Mikoss

    Mikoss Friend

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    Thanks Marv. FWIW, this also seems in line with measurements I saw posted on the Steve Hoffman forums as well.
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The 2M Black is a bright cart. Subjectively, I wouldn't say sibilant, but "spitty" - very much an emphasis in the mid-treble. I have no idea as I haven't heard the Red.

    Yep, I read the Hoffman forums and saw a little bit of that audiophoolisticstry going on from a few peeps. One suggested that trying to flatten the response was pointless given that vinyl gear tends to measure all over the place (I guess the other option is to keep spending thousands of dollars on gear to happen upon the right "synergy" rather than address things directly with a soldering iron and knowledge), another cited the lack of trust with "shareware" and DIY test setups implying that Ortofon's expensive B&K measurement equipment could not possibly lie (where have we heard something like this before?), and another who absolutely had no clue, produced his own measurements showing the 2M Black to almost perfect.

    I'm not against things like component matching, "synergy", and personal preferences, but the vinyl world has too much shit that is all over the place. A little bit more knowledge (objectivity) would be a good thing in this arena.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  10. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Curious to grab that same test LP for my own tweaks.

    Perhaps we need a dedicated thread, but what was the issue below 500Hz?
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Doing the FFT thing with noise resulted in bass rolloff on the measurement whereas a tone sweep showed me everything was flat.
     
  12. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    Marv, I have the Goldring G2100 as the cartridge in my TT. Well, I had it for all of 5 minutes before I carelessly bent the strylus. Anyhow, have you had any experience with this cart?
     
  13. NekoAudio

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    Hi Purrin,

    I'm curious what sort of issues you ran into trying to measure below 500Hz?
    It's anything but pointless. It's so easy to modify frequency response by changing load, which in my opinion makes it super important to do. Setups do tend to measure all over the place because everything gets set up uniquely: load, cartridge azimuth (crosstalk/phase), phono stage, etc. But you should definitely perform measurements to get things dialed in as well as possible. It makes such a huge difference. I use the Adjust+ software to measure and do this with the Adjust+ and Hi-Fi News test records.

    If you want an easy phono stage of try load settings with, you can try getting a continuously variable one like the Phono Box RS. It won't be as precise as soldering your own specific loads together, but it might make it easy for you to play around with things. I recently used it to play around with load while keeping a record playing to immediately hear the results. It's a great phono stage as well. Or just get a pot to wire in parallel.

    The matching thing is worth mentioning as well. There are phono stages that purposefully include a subsonic filter of some sort, and others with high frequency rolloff, and sometimes the implementation causes rolloff to occur much earlier than it really should. Matching a cartridge that has a U shape might result in an overall flatter response in those setups. But in this case I don't think that's Ortofon's intent.
     
  14. deniall83

    deniall83 Acquaintance

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    Totally agree. Most turntable and phono stage reviews make no mention of measurements or even how accurate the speed is which should be the first thing tested imo. We need a lot more objectivity in turntable reviews and analog gear in general. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Discombobulated results. I didn't set the FFT window high enough, but this should give a clearer picture of what is going on. Just one channel.

    47k and 220 pf Loading (not including tonearm wire and interconnect)
    Ortofon 2M Black Ch1 Lateral PN.jpg
    Ortofon 2M Black Ch1 Vertical PN.jpg
    At stock 47k load, we can see that there is a little bit of lower and mid treble emphasis, and quite a bit of rolloff in the last half of the top octave.

    35k and 220 pf Loading (not including tonearm wire and interconnect)

    Ortofon 2M Black Ch1 Lateral PN 35k HD.jpg
    Ortofon 2M Black Ch1 Vertical PN 35k HD.jpg
     

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