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PAP Trio 15 and DIY - Discussion

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Cakecake, Apr 23, 2018.

Page 14 of 18
  1. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Waveguide?
     
    Priidik, Jun 11, 2019
    #261
  2. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Looks like the price for the Voxativ 1.6 version of these has increased from $5,990 to $6,490 sometime this year.
     
    zonto, Jul 3, 2019
    #262
  3. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    I hadn't been on the PAP site for a while but it looks like the cost of the NEO 15 woofers went up in price significantly.

    When I recently had an in person conversation with Tom, he mentioned that PAP would likely move away from DIY to sell more complete systems. Maybe this price increase is starting the process.
     
    crazychile, Jul 3, 2019
    #263
  4. svaras

    svaras New

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    Would you be so kind and publish CAD files for quintet 15 ? Thanks in advance.
     
    svaras, Jul 7, 2019
    #264
  5. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I don't have the SKP files for CNC use but I do have the SketchUp files.

    Crap. I have six of these and just need two more. Anyone have two they'll sell me for a reasonable price?
     
    zerodeefex, Jul 7, 2019
    #265
  6. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    @Hooncake did me a solid yesterday and brought over his PAP Neo woofers so we could do some nerdy comparisons:

    PAP OB-A15Neo woofer ($570 a pair) vs. Eminence Beta-15a woofer ($180 a pair, aka the people's woofer)

    Neo
    + readily more detailed/resolving, keeps up with the toughest passages and the speed of the Voxativ
    + anchored the Voxativ's lower midrange, lends body there
    - a little audiophile sounding, not in a good way
    - compared to the beta, doesn't create the same ambiance, sounds more hollow
    - egged the Voxativ on to near shoutiness with poor recordings

    Beta
    + anchors the lowest bass notes with sustain (whenever the music called for a swirling, impending sense of doom, the beta nailed it, even if it hazed over some other details), created more ambiance
    + never made the Voxativ sound shouty
    + modern, loudness war music pairs better, sounding less scrutinized
    - you can't unhear detail

    It's tough to communicate the magnitude of these differences, so instead, I'll say that the Neo's strengths are big enough, and it's weaknesses are small enough, for me to have snapped it up at the old price. But at the new price, no.

    We also briefly tried the expensive Verastarr cables PAP recommends against my PartsExpress cables. Heard zero f'ing difference.
     
    sphinxvc, Aug 4, 2019
    #266
  7. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    Too hard.
     
    sphinxvc, Aug 4, 2019
    #267
  8. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    @sphinxvc , do you think running Betas on the bass and Neos on the mids would be a worthwhile experiment? I guess I haven’t checked efficiency differences to see if that might be an issue, but putting that aside, i’m sort of curious.
     
    crazychile, Aug 4, 2019
    #268
  9. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    Of course we did that, haha. Well sort of, unlike the Heil version, the crossover for the Voxativ and Tang Bang is a 2-way. So it was just 2 Neos and 2 Betas. Sounded pretty bad, but curiosity satiated.
     
    sphinxvc, Aug 4, 2019
    #269
  10. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I've done this and preferred going 2 way as simple as possible with the Neos plus decent full rangers.

    I reserve 3 way for when I can afford the super nice fostex super tweeters.
     
    zerodeefex, Aug 4, 2019
    #270
  11. johanse

    johanse New

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    Why is there a small gap between the 3 main front plates ?
    Will they not affect a cancel of the bass ?
    If it is only a design thing, i think i will leave with no space in between.
     
    johanse, Aug 25, 2019
    #271
  12. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    I think they're only a diffraction concern above a certain frequency/wavelength. But, yeah, I did one big baffle for the woofers just to keep them closer together.
     
    sphinxvc, Aug 25, 2019
    #272
  13. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    Looks like the 3 and 4 way active analog crossover should be up on diyaudio soon. Pass posted a few days ago.
     
    sphinxvc, Aug 30, 2019
    #273
  14. uncola

    uncola Friend

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    So the verastarr foil speaker cables made no difference? Yeah I have some Grover Huffman flat conductor in air dielectric Teflon tube speaker cables and heard no difference and they’re real stiff. I moved on to making my own canare 4s11 starquad speaker cables because at least emi rejection is a measurable thing. And my setups are cramped so a good candidate for anti emi . Sup New York Sbaf crew
     
    uncola, Sep 3, 2019
    #274
  15. johanse

    johanse New

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    Would there be like "the end" filter, parralel or series, 1.order, 6db.
    Any schematics, with size of components ???
     
    johanse, Sep 17, 2019
    #275
  16. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    PAP Trio 15 Heil review in this months AudioExpress. There are some measurements and some vague but positive listening impressions included, but most of it was company background, assembly, interview with Ze'ev, and lots of other systems components interaction commentary. Most of it we've already discussed here.

    Reviewer also noted that the vertical dispersion of the Heil wasn't wide, so these should be at ear level. I thought I noticed it also and the normal height ends up putting the Heils at my chest level. I might end up making some crude risers to try bringing them up a bit.

    I'm supposed to get a demo set of production crossovers soon and will be able to comment some more.
     
    crazychile, Sep 17, 2019
    #276
  17. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Start here: http://www.modelpromo.nl/Leonidas-crossover.htm
    We also have this pic of an old version of the crossover. No idea how it sounds.
    [​IMG]

    If your're looking for proper 6db/oct acoustical crossovers the PAP design won't work without making the crossover way more complex than it is. Even then I'm not sure if it can be done. Better to copy what John Dunlavy did ages ago.
     
    Serious, Sep 17, 2019
    #277
  18. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    @sphinxvc what variant of the woofers are you using? Can you and @Hooncake take pics?

    There are three variants of the woofers:
    • Original SE
    • SEN/Neo, first variant
    • SEN/Neo, newer variant
    Some are more butt than others apparently?
     
    zerodeefex, Oct 1, 2019
    #278
  19. Cakecake

    Cakecake Guest

    I upgraded to OSMT's
    [​IMG]

    I had the SEN/first variant, I think no difference in sound compared to the newer one but sphinxvc can comment more on it. I think mine has paper middle dome section and newer one is metal mesh? idk. I sold my speakers because bass impact was alittle lacking for me.
    [​IMG]
     
    Cakecake, Oct 1, 2019
    #279
  20. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    Run them with 18s to supplement like real BWC.
     
    zerodeefex, Oct 1, 2019
    #280
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