People complain about DR and music in an appropriate thread

Discussion in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' started by Psalmanazar, Jan 31, 2020.

  1. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    This may or may not be relevant to the conversation...
     
  2. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I wasn't expecting to watch that entire video, but it was quite interesting. I'm impressed that she actually recorded all the harmonies separately rather than pitch shift the single line; probably why I felt the vocal lines were "soft". Actually I'm impressed they refuse to use pitch correction at all.
     
  3. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    I found Eilish’s album to be “ok”. I can listen to it and be mildly entertained and not want to rip my ears off. She has a manufactured image and attitude trying to be the female Cobain/Manson-lite or something. Her voice seems decent (at least on the record, never heard her live) and she has some interesting things going on in a few of her tracks. But in general I find the album to sound like a mediocre angsty wannabe FOTM targeting bratty kids and teenagers.

    The reason however that this album has won so many awards is because the slight amount of edginess and alternative bent, the whole “recorded in my bedroom” mythology around it, and the fact that the music is even somewhat decent and doesn’t necessarily fit neatly into one particular genre, makes it that much better/different than the same repetitive bleach-blonde pop drivel that’s been going on for so many years.

    It’s not that the album is any kind of breakthrough or work of genius at all - it’s just that all the other pop shit that’s out there is so, so very bad, this one stands out. Sad really.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  4. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    This is a good read
    https://www.soundonsound.com/people/recording-random-access-memories-daft-punk

    There's another article somewhere that I can't find which went much deeper into the recording aspect and had a pile of pictures of the various rooms and setups.
     
  5. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Interesting article. All I know is what my crate digging, biography/discography-reading and talking with others has taught me. Listen carefully to music and you learn many things about what makes songs/tracks work (, especially transitions). Digging into Soul, Funk, R&B and Hip Hop you learn to appreciate evolution and uniqueness. I respect groups like Newcleus immensely.

    Writing a song is one thing. Playing a melody, hmmm.

    Creating your own sound is something else. Listening to Jazz evolving from the several eras and James Brown going from melodies to grooves first really opens your ears. Then there is Rock & Roll from the 50ties to the 70ties and the evolution into Prog Rock and Metal. Many developments occurred in the path to new "genres."

    Before Metal had a chance to exist Dick Dale & His Del-Tones first had to blow up amplifiers so Marshall was forced to develop better ones. Surf music was loud and needed to sound big.

    For future Daft Punk critics listen to the next track. You hear Quincy Jones production values, MJ-esque vocals, fundamental Funk syncopation (The Meters), Gospel (that organ swelling up), 70-ties Disco, modern House beats and the whole track sounds coherent. All the transitions are smooth and the groove never stops working. The balance between the vocals versus instrumentation, the softer versus the louder instruments works incredibly well. This 10 minute song sounds like a 4 minute song. Next time you think Daft Punk is not impressive, stick your head in the ground and f'ing give up on listening to music. I am serious.



    P.S. Sorry, I cannot stand people who do not appreciate how high Daft Punk raised the bar for others. I will take a break to contain my annoyance. Too much stress at work lately.
     
  6. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    For vinyl, we should also remember the 'content wars'. So, no-budget punk band, want to jam as many tracks as possible on your one-shot LP? Sorry, gotta reduce the bass level; don't be disappointed if it doesn't sound like what you thought you recorded.

    Re. Billie Eilish,
    A movie I watched last night reminded me of Alanis Morissette (of whom I thought exactly this at the time). Older people might have thought the same about, I dunno, Janis Joplin, Billie Holiday...

    And before that, Link Wray was blowing up amplifiers and punching holes in speakers for the same reason.

    All of which is to say there's nothing much new that isn't old - but in music as with everything else, us grumpy old buggers can't expect that today's yoof won't go through the same things to make their own discoveries (though I'm not saying we shouldn't complain about e.g. bad compression and clipping in the hope that they'll figure it out earlier!).
     
  7. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    It's a mix of things already done better in the past on all accounts. And I don't hate on Daft Punk, it's not a genre I particularly like but I recognize, within the genre, the effort put forth. That being said, its MJ-esque vocals that take a backseat to MJ, funk syncopation that doesn't come close to touching the meters, organ is nothing reminiscent of gospel and is just synth slowly getting louder, there is no groove because its electronic music, and the balance is just a turn of a knob or push of a slider. It's just not that impressive when you compare it to the chops, groove and synergy of the artists you mentioned to describe it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  8. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    TL;DR people will like the music that they like because it speaks to them, who gives a bother what others think? That said, armchair-discussions on the quality of polish and virtuosity (or lack thereof) will inevitably pop up. Sometimes people like stuff because it's less polished, even.

    I mean, ffs I'm listening to this right now and am really into it. I dare anyone to say this isn't cringe from the title alone :))


    ************
    So can we talk about Radiohead and how it's weird because you really kinda wanna dance along but it's well-nigh impossible to do so for the vast majority of their discography? :p

    That group's a good example of what I feel is "nice" modern music. They wear their influences on their sleeves but aren't afraid to try weird shit just for the hell and hallelujah of it— Pulk/Pull Revolving Doors is the weird step-child of the black sheep album that is Amnesiac, but it's one of their more distinctive tracks and a highly enjoyable listen in its own right (IMO).



    The production on every good Radiohead album, by which I mean Kid A onwards per my preferences, can arguably be called horrid. Neurotically complex arrangements and weird-for-the-sake-of-being-weird time signatures abound and it's no small wonder people take a quick look at their music and raise their eyebrows in confusion at how anyone could genuinely enjoy it. Heck some might argue that their music is terribly made because of how coarse some of the sounds they produce can be, but in this context there's deliberation to the final sound.

    People find ways to express themselves, and whether that's by twisting the rule book of music theory or lighting it up on fire, punching holes in gear like Link Wray did (I'd forgotten about that, excellent example @Biodegraded!), I don't think musicians will ever stop trying to expand their vocabularies, so to speak.

    Does this make it artful music, objectively good? Heck if I know, I've long since admitted that my musical sensibilities are trash-mammalian, but I do find it an engaging listen.

    That counts for something.

    The same might well apply to Eilish's music, sparse and sophomoric as it can be in comparison to loads of "good" music like Steve Gadd for example, whose music I got into after atomicbob shared Rat Race in the Listening thread. I don't mind admitting that I like the subterranean rumbles and stripped back lyricism, and the weird throwaway pop culture references (ilomilo, one of the tracks I like more on the album than others, is apparently written after the plot on a largely storyless video game). The melodic structure isn't complex and yes it is very edgelord teen angst, "I'm fourteen and this is deep*" as you will, but there are many, many people who identify with that and enjoy not having to expend the necessary energy to be immersed in a laboriously-crafted piece.

    Even London Grammar, which I know a few other people on here like, can be considered mundane dream pop whose releases are all terribly-produced, even moreso than Eilish's album. Even if they're empirically crap by some Kafkaesque-Angarak Imperial standard they still make music that people genuinely enjoy and identify with.

    That counts for something.

    Aside: RobS is right in that Shostakovich's string quartets are generally f'ing exhausting to listen to, as I also find many other strange pieces like Alt-J's Breezeblocks or even Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb. I love all these pieces, but that doesn't mean I'm always game for em. Sometimes I just wanna listen to Maroon 5's first two albums and groove while I'm doing dishes or whatever, because I'm not in the mood for stress.

    Another aside: I don't want to pile on while you're on leave (ha-ha) but you really do have a tendency to crap on threads lately, @RobS. But who am I to judge, I'm a mid-fi pleb at best ;)


    *https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=im14andthisisdeep
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  9. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Good music but poor mastering/production, or good mastering/production with shitty music.

    I'll take the good music. I was just at my Record Shop today when I was talking to the owner there. He knows I'm big into audio quality, but he was surprised that I don't listen to all the stereotypical audiophile albums crap like Jazz At The Pawnshop, etc. Some audiophiles in my old farts audio club will be insulted if you play something that's poorly mastered on a good high end setup. I think I pissed off some people at my club when I say that not all MoFi Disc releases were great. Some of the ones back in the day before MusicDirect took over were "questionable" (Steely Dan - Aja for an example).

    Yeah, it can be a pain if the music was poorly mastered, but we still like to listen to it, don't we? I don't get why people think it is a sin to listen to good music but was recorded like crap.
     
  10. winders

    winders boomer

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    What is a sin, in my mind for me anyway, is to not search out and obtain the best mastering you can find of the music I do like. Especially since I have a nice 2 channel system that rewards well recorded music.

    Sometimes that means getting the best you can find of a poor recording. "Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs" by Derek & the Dominos is an example of great music poorly recorded and often poorly mastered.
     
  11. Tchoupitoulas

    Tchoupitoulas Friend

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    Is it to protect the family jewels from discharged shell casings?

    The whole thing about Billie Eilish holding the mic that way reminds me of a priceless moment when a lead singer of some terrible 80s band held his mic against the electric guitarist’s fretboard during a solo when playing "live” on a tv show. Wish I could remember who it was.

    @Lyander: agreed re. Radiohead. The following, taken from this website, speaks to Radiohead being will to try weird stuff. It’ll either confirm people’s prejudices for or against the band:
    "Like Spinning Plates was constructed from components of another song, I Will, which the band had tried to record in the same sessions. Unsatisfied with the results, which Thom Yorke described as 'dodgy Kraftwerk', the band reversed the recording and used it to create a new track. Yorke said: 'We'd turned the tape around, and I was in another room, heard the vocal melody coming backwards, and thought, "That's miles better than the right way round", then spent the rest of the night trying to learn the melody.' Yorke was recorded singing the melody backwards; this recording was in turn reversed to create 'backwards-sounding' vocals."​
     
  12. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Damn, really? I honestly didn't know this— I'm the kinda dude who listens to a bands entire discography but only very rarely tries to peek behind the curtain so to speak, so with some rare few exceptions and varying depths of intrigue, I'm more or less an idiot (in the classical sense, perhaps contemporary as well) about most of the artists whose work I like.

    Thanks, I had fun reading that! Also affirms my respect for the group, haha.
     
  13. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    RAM is recorded pretty pristine. The master is a bit over compressed but it’s Steely Dan compared to every thing else contemporary.
     
  14. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    I always thoughts it was funny to play RAM to some old audiophile farts. I think they were offended when they start hearing the syth and the compression.
     
  15. luckybaer

    luckybaer Friend

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    The CD has poor DR, but the vinyl sounds great to me.
     
  16. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Nothing will hold a candle to this for me. Nothing.



    I will appreciate a good attempt. Daft Punk work hard to nail their sound, I appreciate that.
     
  17. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    Yep too bad James Brown records are so bad quality.

    I'm trying real hard not to offend anybody by shitting all over Radiohead :)
     
  18. fastfwd

    fastfwd Friend

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    This one isn't so terrible, especially if you like James Brown: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/157985

    The mix isn't really suitable for headphones without crossfeed, though.
     
  19. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    James Brown was lucky having at least a good sound man in the 60-ties and 70-ties. Many good artists in those days might have been great live, but finding a good recording of them is almost impossible (exceptions for the odd singles).

    Sure his recordings do not sound like the Miles Davis or John Coltrane works, but there are a few good ones (studio and bootleg) worth collecting. I am already happy so much music survived the 50-ties, 60-ties and 70-ties. I will take an inspired album with bad quality over an mediocre album that sounds perfect. My Koss PortaPros exist for that reason.
     
  20. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    Sure, it's just a shame there aren't many of his records that are well recorded. Some of them are downright horrible.

    Thanks, that's true this one isn't too bad, I just wish there were more.
     

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