Phono pre-amp discussion

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by JoshMorr, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    8,200
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Northwest France
    Saw some specs in the manual:

    ADC: pcm1808
    DAC: pcm5102a
    DSP: ARM Cortex M4 80 MHz
    Analog stage: NJM2122M opamp

    I asked a while ago if there was an audiophile digital RIAA and this could be it. Very curious what this is like.
     
  2. powermatic

    powermatic Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    690
    Trophy Points:
    93
    400 bucks, it's tempting....though I think it's sold out until mid June.
     
  3. Dusty

    Dusty New

    Joined:
    May 10, 2018
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    USA, Michigan
    I've got the Parks Audio Budgie and love it. I have only compared it to my dads Jolida JD9 and yes the Jolida did beat it out but not by much. The Jolida did get new caps put in and that was a huge difference in that sound but as for the Budgie I only rolled tubes and settled on some russian rockets. I tried the Amperex Bugel Boy tubes but overall the Rockets sound a touch fuller.

    I run the Budgie into a VPI Scout.

    I did see Shannons new post about the new Parks Audio preamp and thought..."hmmm".

    If anyone gets one I'd love to hear your thoughts.

    db
     
  4. drfindley

    drfindley Secretly lives in the Analog Room - Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,533
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Austin
    I think if you are using a turntable to get analog audio, you'd kill the joy of analog with a digital phono stage, especially one performing DSP.
     
  5. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,425
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Peoria, IL
    I've applied RIAA in the digital domain for needle drops and a decent phono stage does a way better job. It's not even close.

    I wish I still had comparison files around but I did this almost a decade ago.
     
  6. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,837
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    If going A/D -> D/A, it kind of defeats the purpose of analog.

    I'd be all about DSP RIAA if recording though for transfers. You could do this in the box with preamp that bypasses the EQ circuit.
     
  7. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Your budgie has some pedestrian output caps (and bypasses) just like the Jolida had. Very easy to swap those out if you are willing to give it a try.
     
  8. Dusty

    Dusty New

    Joined:
    May 10, 2018
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    USA, Michigan
    Thats great to know for the next time I go tweaking :) Thanks!

    db
     
  9. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    805
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    For needledrops digital RIAA can be very good thing. The filter has perfect response and with enough taps and phase/ringing optimization it will sound extremely good; essentially you're in the digital domain so might as well take advantage. For the analog side you can get away with a single gain stage which greatly simplifies design. The channel D Seta stuff (I still have a model L) is a good example.

    For a complete loop... ehhhhhhh. Maybe. I heard the CH integrated (which does digital RIAA) in Montreal with a big dollar setup (Kronos/Lyra/Magico) and it was OK but not amazing especially given the $$$ involved. I'm not sure if I would like a budget implementation. You are at the mercy of the digital side (ADC/DAC/DSP) and for what you can stick in a budget phono pre.... highly skeptical this will sound better than keeping it analog.
     
  10. powermatic

    powermatic Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    690
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I'm skeptical too, but who knows? With some searching I haven't read a single first-person review. Would a basically one-man show market a well-accepted tube based pre, drop it totally, and move to a shitty sounding digital product, and risk losing all the good will his company has built up? It's hard to imagine, but I'm guessing we'll eventually find out.
     
  11. powermatic

    powermatic Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    690
    Trophy Points:
    93
  12. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,066
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, ME
    Speaking of phasing out the 834p, doing a A/B shootout at the house right now.

    20180611_183035.jpg

    834p and a ECPA. I've had the 834p for a year or so, ECPA for an hour. Really like the blackness of the EC and bigger stage. Also has more gain. Sonically have not figured out all the +/- going each way, but excited to figure it out over next few days / weeks
     
  13. recstar24

    recstar24 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Chicago
    EC has a phono stage? How did I miss that one lol
     
  14. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I think it's long discontinued and very low production from that period. If ec put one out today I bet it'd sell better than it did in the past.
     
  15. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,066
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, ME
    From my brief understanding of the history of EC Phonos (mostly 1 head fi post and a bit of banter from associates here) there was the EC Transcription. Awesome name, well recieved.

    Then there was the Phono Amplifier (ECPA) which was a second run, slightly modified. Rumors of slightly better step up trans, higher price tag. Not sure of how many were made in either run, and was quite confused when one popped up in the used market, I've never seen it mentioned before. Thought it might have been a one off or a prototype transcription for a bit.
     
  16. P-Car

    P-Car New

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2018
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Boulder, CO
    How is the comparison coming along Josh?

    I am interested to know what you think of the ECPA vs. the EAR.
     
  17. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,066
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, ME
    Listened to the new EC through out the week, finally had to some to swap back and forth today. System = VPI Classic with Transfiguration Axia - Phono - Aficionado - Forte. EC uses 2 12ax7's and a 6sn7, EAR uses 3 - 12ax7's.

    The additional gain with the EC makes a direct swap over a bit difficult, listening at 12 o'clock with EC is approx listening at 2 o'clock with the 834p. Easiest way I could think of was to have both phono's powered up, listen to a side of a record, swap input / output cables to other phono, listen to same side of record again.

    With a low output MC cart (.38mV) the step up transformers do a bit of work. EC uses Cinemag (red?) and EAR uses something in house. Many who are more familiar with 834 than I am say MM only version with separate SUT is the way to go. I have the version with build in SUT. When you want all the gain you can get, the bit of a boost isn't a bad thing. Separate power chassis on the EC makes it very quiet, had a blacker background than EAR.

    Stage / image - EAR 834p has a fairly wide stage which I've always liked, the EC has a better 3d effect, approximately same width - but added height and depth. Never realized how the EAR was lacking in this department. EC also excelled at separation between instruments. To test stage and image, I always listen to live albums. On Bill Evans - Sunday at Village Vanguard, La Faro is panned to the left stage with the drums, Evans on the right. With the ECPA he was clearly to the far left and in front of the drums, with the EAR is was less clear and sounded as if they were closer together / in the same spot.

    Tone - ECPA is fuller sounding, more dynamic, deeper impact on bass. Bass isn't bloomy or sloppy, just sounds appropriate. Mids stand out here too. The EAR is drier, which may be desirable depending on the system and which way you are trying to shift balance. EAR had more shimmer on cymbals, probably sharper on the top end, but ECPA wasn't far behind.

    This all comes with a caveat of tubes used. I only used the tubes which came with the EC, and have rolled several tubes in the EAR. Above impressions will hold true either way, but differences could be mitigated with rolling. Differences are smaller than I make them seem above, but the two things that really stick out to me at are the 3d sound and the fuller / deeper bass of the EC.
     
  18. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Sweet, any pics or nudes?
     
  19. jpoyarzun

    jpoyarzun Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    May 14, 2018
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Santiago de Chile
    Sorry to get about one or two pages back...

    I got a Parks Audio Puffin (is getting to my country Right now). I will post my impressions back; but, I think in some way it makes a lot of sense. I mean; any MC phono preamp passes for about 3 sound degrading stages, 2 gains (one of them can be made on suts) and one riaa eq. The parks audio encodes and decodes with a lot of detail on 24bit, and all the noisy amplification is done on DSP without any degradation of sound.
    Of course, ADC and DAC can be detrimental, but this guy (Shannon Parks) discontinued his super decent sounding tube preamp (that now is selling more expensive than new) for this phono DSP.

    Prior to ordering one, I asked him on chat if he thinks that using a DSP will end in loss of holography or air or whatever tubes do to the sound. His reply was very convincing and after that, I ordered one, just out of curiosity.

    (sorry for the bad English, is not my native language :) )
     
  20. Mystic

    Mystic Mystique's Spiritual Advisor

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,754
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    U.S.
    IMG_20180809_174531.jpg

    Huge thanks to @sfoclt for this pre-amp. The tubes alone would probably cost as much as what he sold the whole package to me for.

    Now I just need a Turntable to plug into this. Waiting for the Sol to release before I make any decisions on a table. I imagine most would buy a table first, but this deal was just too good to pass up.
     

Share This Page