Phono pre-amp discussion

These show up for under $600 used:

https://tmraudio.com/vinyl/phono-preamps/music-reference-rm-4-tube-pre-preamplifier-rm4-head-amp-mc/

 

I'm already looking at the silver on nickel SUT from them, do they have a different active product under / around $500 ? Thats what Im trying to do in this comparison.

 

If you're asking for <$500 per pair, then disregard. I don't think he has a entry-level product in that category.

 

I'd really like to hear a Slagle/EMIA SUT. People speak really highly of them, especially the silver models. But they are $$$.

 

@wbass , I think $4500 for the SUT alone is a bit out of the price range for this comparison. That's even more than the nickel core ones I looked at from intact audio.

Of course now that I know its out there I'll have to buy it. What can I sell now?

 

@ogodei Ha ha, sorry. There are also the A23 SUTs, if you want to drop another $4K for a tiny little box with a few tiny wires in it.

The high-rollers over at What's Best Forum do speak really highly of the EMIA stuff. Also, the Allnic phono stages. I took a slightly flyer on a used one and have been really pleased with it. Allnic's SUTs (internal and external) compare well to the Bob's Devices Sky 20 I also have. Allnic also makes an electronic pre-pre-amp that's supposed to be good.

 

@wbass , since you're in the neighborhood I'm coming over to your place to listen and hopefully pick up your hand-me-down SUTs.

 

Anyone here have experience with the mofi studiophono? I was thinking of getting one for my Clearaudio concept -> Naga MP110 -> Saga -> Vidar -> Dynaudio S40 but I'd like to hear from people what their opinion of it is. I'm looking for a step up from the Mani in terms of detail, staging and bass definition. Looking to spend under $400 right now, but I'm not in a hurry so that could grow if there is a good reason.
I do have thoughts of moving to a different (possibly MC) cart later this year but I haven't figured out which one it would be yet.

 

Just because I am a fanboy and I am just floored at the performance, the Darlington Labs MM-6 sounds like it might be up your ally. No MC input, but for MM, it is hard to beat and plenty of bass definition. We have a loaner on the MM-5 going on right now if you are curious.

 

I've looked at the Darlington stuff earlier, after I saw your thread on it some months ago. I'd love to be on the loaner if it included EU friends, but I guess that would make it a bit too complicated and expensive..

I'll keep it in mind, but it's a little over budget thinking of bringing it over from the US and getting through customs.

 

Did not see you were in the EU. Not sure Darlington Labs has EU options, although I know it only takes a 24V AC input, however that is at 60hz. But yes, the loaner would be too much too complicated.

 

I’m a vinyl noob so please take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I have tried the Mani, iFi (the cheaper one), and Mofi. Definitely like the MoFi best of the three, the main difference I noticed was additional detail when I compared. I’m currently using the Denon dl-103, otherwise I would have been interested in trying the Darlington.

 

Quick follow up to my earlier post, I'm liking The Wall much better with my iFi Zen phono than the MoFi. Not sure why, more lively perhaps, but not able to critically listen right now. MoFi still more detailed but the Zen is a great deal costing slightly more than the Mani.

 

I have started to like the presentation of tubes over solid state. Currently my chain is VPI classic 3 -> GoldNote (solid state) phono -> EC Studio Jr -> Utopia. What would be the result (sonically) if the solid state phono is replaced/upgraded by Tube phono stage? Does it even matter if the phono stage is Solid state or tube based if the amp is already tube?

 

I've been trying out the Parks Audio Puffin as part of a lower-end MM TT system. It was discussed earlier in the thread but I didn't understand all the DSP and other functionality it provides.

Very flexible gain & impedance controls; tone, tilt, "bass boost" controls; high, low, user-specified and 'de-rumble' filters; distortion & pink noise generator; digital output for input to your own DAC, room etc. You can configure & load up to 4 preferred "user settings" slots. EQ pre-sets for multiple sources: phono (RIAA), line in (flat), multiple record labels. You can even use its VU meters with a source like The Ultimate Analog Test LP to set azimuth & see channel separation specs.

Alas! The sound coming out of it is kind of meh. Not bad but a pretty flat sound stage. There are other better sounding options at the price. However I may keep this around as a tool when setting up new gear as its so flexible.

 

I think I have all the gear in place for my lower-fi, active SUT comparison:

• Hagerman Piccolo 2
• Lounge Audio Copla
• Muffsy MC Head Amp - Well, I got in all the parts for this one, i just have to actually build it. Thanks to @Cspirou for the recommendation.
• Magical Musical Fidelity AC-1 - From a UK manufacturer, this apparently was available in the UK and Japan back in the '80s and '90s for around $500. Features pin-sockets on the board for swapping out resistors.
• Audio Design MCP-1 - Another OOP and impossible to find unit, this is a clone of the McIntosh MCP-1 and has been graciously lent to me by @k4rstar . This one also has pin-sockets but more conveniently accessible on the outside for when you want to hot-swap them I guess

Soon as I get my Garrard TT into shape and the Muffsy built, both this week hopefully, its off to the races.

 

Ryan brings up an interesting point about 50Hz vs 60Hz.
Our EU power transformer solution works fine on 50Hz. The internal filtering is robust enough to have low hum even when operating from the lower mains frequency in the EU and is designed to have margin so that as capacitors age over many years, the unit will still perform well.

 

I'm looking forward to your comparison. I can't help wondering how a MC cart would sound. A step up device, either transformer or active, seem like a good way to go.

Earlier in this thread, you mentioned using an Ortofon Cadenza Black for this comparison. Is this still the plan? I'm curious if you have had discussion about cart impedance and the Copla with Robert Morin of Lounge Audio? He specifies 40 - 300 Ohms and the Cadenza, like many low output MC carts, has a spec impedance of only 5 Ohms. I have read other reviews of carts in the 33 to 40 Ohm range being successful with the Copla, but I haven't found any reviews of a low impedance cart.

It seems like, whether transformer or active, we can't get away from these impedance issues. One suggestion would be to do this comparison with a Denon DL-103, if available. It seems like an appropriate cart for this "lower"-fi SUT comparison and is 40 Ohms so I would work with the Copla.

 

As I understand it what needs to be matched is the Loading impedance\resistance of the cart + cable with the Input impedance range of the headamp \ active SUT. The Cadenza Black has an Internal impedance spec of 5 Ohms but a recommended Loading impedance of 50 to 500 Ohms. The input impedance of the Copla is specd as you state above, between 40 and 300 Ohms. So that's a match between 50 and 300 Ohms.

If i'm incorrect about this someone let me know as it would seem I've missed something rather fundamental to it all.

All that said: The carts I now have available for the VPI are a Cadenza Bronze (Load Impedance 50-200 ohm) and a Dynavector XX-2 mkII ( Load Impedance >30 ). I also have a Pear Audio Tracer 10 cart for which I can find no documentation, a bunch of active headamps should help me figure out the proper settings for it.

 

Upon rereading the specs on the Lounge website, you are correct. Somehow, the way it was stated, I didn't get it right.

So, your comparison should be very interesting. Thanks in advance.