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Pi2 Design Idiot-Proof Ready-To-Go RPi/AES Streamer

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Michael Kelly, Jan 16, 2021.

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  1. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    That would be awesome! I'm guessing that it would be tough to keep up with the changelogs though.

    My only requirements were PEQ, Touchscreen, and integration with my current library. I normally sort by date added / modified so my recent albums get more ear time. Hoping something like that is in MoOde. I believe that is the route I am going to take with my build. I tried out Roon and it wasn't what I needed for my listening habits.
     
    M3NTAL, Jan 19, 2021
    #41
  2. Syzygy

    Syzygy Friend

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    I thought if the first post were initially a placeholder for the feature matrix, it could be updated from any discovery revealed further down in the thread.
     
    Syzygy, Jan 19, 2021
    #42
  3. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    On one hand, I think Roon is way too expensive for what you get. And I don't totally understand the subscription given the product you get. This isn't like a streaming service where content is changing. It's primarily about helping you manage your local music collection and playback. It's not like it bundles Tidal or Qobuz.

    Sure, $10/mo doesn't sound bad, but with everything going to a subscription-based model, it adds up. In the case of Roon, I always look at the $700 lifetime purchase option as well. $700 for an internal piece of software is fuckin' expensive!

    On the other hand, it makes so many things so much easier. It's nice to use and simplifies almost everything I do with music listening at home. For that alone, it's hard to ignore. I do enjoy using it.

    But were there an alternative that offered Roon-like functionality with some sacrifices to UI and other "music discovery" features, I'd probably jump to that. There's a wide, wide gap between the duct-taped solutions available and Roon.
     
    Hands, Jan 19, 2021
    #43
  4. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    If HQPlayer filters were available included in the price, it might feel more worth it. As it is you have to pay at least $120/year for Roon and then another $265 for HQPlayer if you want to use those filters in Roon.
     
    Merrick, Jan 19, 2021
    #44
  5. jelly

    jelly New

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    I'm also lining up a PI2AES purchase in a few weeks. Will this new unit offer any more in terms of SQ or is it all about producing a more convenient unit for some users?
     
    jelly, Jan 19, 2021
    #45
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It was about SQ for me as well. I wouldn't have bothered it if sounded bad and continued to use my old CDPs. This was the first gizmo that had SQ equivalent to my CDPs that didn't cost $5832.99
     
    purr1n, Jan 19, 2021
    #46
  7. Michael Kelly

    Michael Kelly MOT: Pi 2 Design

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    That is such an oddly specific number! ;)
     
    Michael Kelly, Jan 19, 2021
    #47
  8. Michael Kelly

    Michael Kelly MOT: Pi 2 Design

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    It will have the exact same clocking, power supply and WM8804 AES transmitter as the PI2AES. As they say, why mess with success. It really is more about system level integration.
     
    Michael Kelly, Jan 19, 2021
    #48
  9. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Would it be possible to get a "balls to the wall" sort of all-in-one transport way down the road? By that, I mean within the confines of your no-bullshit, straightforward approach, eliminate audio nervosa variables as they may relate to power supplies, extraneous components, OS/distro and software, and whatever other stuff audiophiles worry about or might be too unsure of to setup themselves. (Ignoring the extreme outliers that have never ending nervosa.)

    Something like a custom board w/ compute module, separate linear power supplies for the Pi/Board and HAT (or at least separate linear for the HAT), as many digital outputs as you can feasibly manage, no need for DAC/amp capability necessarily, and so on. For good measure, I know some have mentioned concerns about networking sharing the USB bus, though I'm not sure off the top of my head if that was specific to a specific Pi model and/or network interfaces. Either way, maybe little things like that could be addressed too. Maybe just ensure it has the ability to play entirely local and off the network if desired.

    The only other close equivalents I've seen to this still either require the user to purchase a separate power supply or are too expensive. It would be nice to bridge that gap. However, if this starts pushing anywhere approaching $1k, that probably wouldn't be worth it.

    Good news is the Pi2AES already checks most of the audio nervosa checkboxes, plus a few nice-to-haves. So, I would hope it's more about iterative part updates, reasonable power supplies, and incorporating some of the developments and tech from the new products you're contemplating.

    I don't know how much interest there'd be in something like this. Perhaps this much of a custom design and chassis would be too much of a burden (and the former without enough carry over from mentioned upcoming product ideas). Maybe it risks too much customer indecision and/or waiting.

    All I know is that some on this site have asked about the power supply aspect at the very least, which is what got me thinking about it.
     
    Hands, Jan 19, 2021
    #49
  10. Michael Kelly

    Michael Kelly MOT: Pi 2 Design

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    The design of the PI2AES and the upcoming CM4AES (I know terrible name, but I'm an engineer and we suck at marketing) uses two LT3045 LDO's in the critical sections. One powers the NDK NZ2520SD clocks and the other powers the WM8804. The Compute Module itself is powered from 5V switcher that derives it's power from the 24V input, which could be linear or switching. Using a linear will reduce overall system noise, but the LT3045's have <80dB of PSRR (Power Supply Rejection Ratio). With 6mv noise (the spec of the on-board 5V switching regulator) the LT3045's reduce that to <1uV! And remember, this is for the power rail of a digital device. Noise on this rail does not directly relate to jitter or noise on the output stream.

    The bottom line is that my design philosophy is trying to be practical and deliver the best product at a fair price. In my early days I was a motorhead (go Mopar) and we always worked on the 80/20 principal. That is 80% of performance was easy, but the last 20% was killer. So you had to decide how much if that last 20 you needed to get. I believe the PI2AES gets you 98% to 99% of the way to perfect audio transmission of the source material.
     
    Michael Kelly, Jan 20, 2021
    #50
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Easier solution:

    Price at $12999. Encase in something fancy. Maybe chassis milled from a aluminum billet. Heavy high mass stuff always sounds better.

    Write glossing marketing sheet highlighting parts used with nonsense such as Sequential Low Dropout Regulation with High Noise Rejection Ratio or SLoDReHiNoRR. Zoom in money shots specific components on the PC board.


    P.S. Linear PS doesn't sound better with the pi2AES. It sounds different. Have already heard two great DACs that use switchers: B2 Bomber and DAC2541. At some point, audiophilia must stop.
     
    purr1n, Jan 20, 2021
    #51
  12. Michael Kelly

    Michael Kelly MOT: Pi 2 Design

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    The new CM4AES design is complete. Below are some screen caps. The case we will use is the Galaxy GX147 124 x 170 x 40 mm from MODU (https://modushop.biz/site/index.php?route=product/product&path=33_286&product_id=240t).

    Front panel features:
    Power button lower left (based on circuit from Mosaic for auto power on/hold)
    2.8" 256 x 64 OLED (SSD1322 chip, compatible with mpd_oled code)
    20 detent rotary encoder with pushbutton switch (compatible with Volumio and Moode, not Ropieee)
    USB Host Port (also supplies 5V @ 1A) for WiFI dongle and configuration

    cm4aes_front.PNG

    Back Panel features, left to right:
    CM4 HDMI 0 Output
    CM4 Gigabit Ethernet
    WiFi/Bluetooth Antenna Jack (SMA) (may not be supported in initial units)
    USB Boot Switch (bottom side) Allows booting from front panel USB for configuration.
    AES XLR Digital Audio Output
    Toslink (lower) and RCA (upper) SPDI/F Digital Audio Output
    I2S over HDMI (PS-Audio pinout) Digital Audio Output
    AES BNC Digital Audio Output (above DC Jack)
    2.1MM DC Jack, 24V Input

    cm4aes_back.PNG

    Top side showing CM4, SSD, MIPI Connector, RTC Battery Holder, etc

    cm4aes_top.PNG
     
    Michael Kelly, Jan 20, 2021
    #52
  13. Syzygy

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    As the saying goes,

    There are only 3 problems in computer science:

    1. Naming things
    2. Off-by-1 errors


    edit:
    ------

    It seems like plugging in a USB there might interfere with operation of the rotary encoder for some. Maybe. I'm not sure about that. Probably depends on the connector itself, and the dexterity of the user.
     
    Syzygy, Jan 20, 2021
    #53
  14. Empyah

    Empyah Facebook Friend

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    OMG this, I am tired of years of researching and trial and error - don't get me wrong, it was fun but got in the way of enjoying the music. And that is why this little box is so great, together with my Yggdrasil GS i feel that I am finally there, no need to search any further. This thing is good enough to finally be good enough.
     
    Empyah, Jan 20, 2021
    #54
  15. Michael Kelly

    Michael Kelly MOT: Pi 2 Design

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    the rotary encoder and the knob are mounted to the front panel so they can be located where they need to be up or down a bit. Obviously once we have the panels cut we'll have a better feel for how everything lays out
     
    Michael Kelly, Jan 20, 2021
    #55
  16. Michael Kelly

    Michael Kelly MOT: Pi 2 Design

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    I'm totally going to steal the phrase that something is "good enough to finally be good enough"
     
    Michael Kelly, Jan 20, 2021
    #56
  17. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    I bet you struggled with that decision ;)
     
    Biodegraded, Jan 20, 2021
    #57
  18. Empyah

    Empyah Facebook Friend

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    Do that - i'd be honored to see it used by you! :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
    Empyah, Jan 20, 2021
    #58
  19. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    @Michael Kelly Can you say more about the CM4AES? Do you have a sense of what you'll charge and when it will be available? I'm considering a PI2AES purchase, but I like the thought of a display.

    Apologies if I missed this info elsewhere, and thanks.
     
    wbass, Jan 20, 2021
    #59
  20. Michael Kelly

    Michael Kelly MOT: Pi 2 Design

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    The PI2AES, with the 7-in raspberry pi display,is probably still your best bet in the short-term and even for the next couple of months. the first version that we will be releasing of the buttoned up all in one will only have a 256 x 64 OLED display. there will be a bigger version that will have a complete analog section including DAC and headphone amp, and that will have a 5-in DSi touch panel.

    I am hesitant to speak about price right now but it will probably be in the $400 to $500 range for the digital only OLED version and upwards of $800 to $1K for the full analog with display. these prices are certainly inline with what's on the market for network streamers, but a far cry from rolling your own!.

    As I have mentioned before, the PI2AES will not be going anywhere as it serves the market of folks who roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty and pull their hair out, and basically just go nuts playing with this stuff. Who am I to stop the insanity!
     
    Michael Kelly, Jan 20, 2021
    #60
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