Pioneer XDP-300R Balanced DAP

Discussion in 'IEMs and Portable Gear' started by PoochZag, Oct 13, 2016.

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  1. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    So Pioneer (owned by Onkyo) has announced a new Android balanced DAP to go above the single-ended 100R in their line.

    In kinda confused, because the small amount of available specs from the below article (form factor, OS, internal storage, 2 SD card slots, Balanced, even price) seem very similar to the already existing Onkyo DP-X1... But more competition in this price area of the DAP market could be good

    http://www.whathifi.com/news/pioneer-outs-xdp-300r-high-res-music-player
     
  2. Warrior

    Warrior Friend

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    They also have the dpx1-b. I forget the exact difference, I believe they fixed the connection issues and a few other things. Quoted from head-fi:

    Enhanced capacitors in amp section

    1a has four amp gain level (dp-x1 has three)

    Top plate (jack cover) is modified

    End of quote. Also has 64gb internal, up from 32gb.
     
  3. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Now if they just did the extra work to bypass the Android audio-stack, you wouldn't have to resort to stuff like UAPP in order to not get clobbered with Android's forced re-sampling.

    There was a lot to like about the DP-X1 I bought; but the forced re-sampling, unusable Bluetooth, ridiculously fragile connectors and the need for not-very-polished third-party software to make it workable with an external DAC killed it for me.

    At least they fixed the HIGHLY audible glitching with third-party music applications (e.g. TIDAL, Spotify etc.)

    Will give the new units a try, since AK seem hell-bent on sticking to capacity-challenged players with half-assed macOS support and highly sub-optimal amplifier outputs.
     
  4. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    Wait, they did? Do I need to actively update something on DP-x1 other than typical android updates? I'm still having the TIDAL issue with occasional "skipping". Never had a spotify problem though
     
  5. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    The issue I'm referring to was a completely consistent and highly audible distortion in quiet passages and/or during track fade-in/out. It affected all players/music clients except the built-in "Music" app and UAPP (and presumably anything else that talked directly to an outboard DAC). It was fixed in a DP-X1 firmware update a while back (a month or so after I returned my unit, which was the first week of May this year).

    I didn't get any skipping with TIDAL (unless it, or the network, were having issues), so that sounds like a different problem (no less of a bummer though).
     
  6. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    Oh ok thanks, I've had a problem with players such as Poweramp or N7 like that in the past, but have just stuck to the stock app since. Yeah there's a known issue with TIDAL, many people on HF have described it so I know I'm not alone (I mentioned it in the DP-x1 thread). It's not too bad though, like a half second "skip" every few minutes. Only in Tidal with downloaded songs
     
  7. IlikeIEMs

    IlikeIEMs Rando

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    I have the 100R. If you buy Pioneer, be very careful to note that their return warranty is 30 days, they do not fix anything that gets broken, and they will not sell you replacement parts. The fragile bumper on my 100R broke after 3 months - and now I can see that it is made of sintered aluminum and so is easily snapped. Pioneer will not fix it and will not sell me a replacement part. That is unacceptable for a $550 plus DAP.
     
  8. elwappo99

    elwappo99 Friend

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    Gah, total bummer. I'm very surprised to hear about this low level of support.

    I was thinking about getting this XDP-300R. I'm thinking about getting a DAP with a balanced output. I've sworn off AK, so I really don't want one of those. The Fiio X7 looks like a good option, but I love the fact this has 2 microsd slots.

    Any other options out there?
     
  9. Warrior

    Warrior Friend

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    Pono, Cowon S, zx2 (not technically balanced but something similar). Not sure if zx2 would qualify, but the damn thing sounds that good anyway.

    Just curious, why the preference for balanced? I've had a few balanced daps, from all to Fiio X7, I've always had a hard time hearing a difference, especially when volume matched. Not judging, just curious
     
  10. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    The minute you require 2 slots, your options shrink markedly.

    Be aware that the Pioneer and Onkyo units require* third-party software if you don't want to be stuck with your audio going through Android's force re-sampling (and that software has some stability and UX issues).

    I can't find a single dual-slot player that isn't either saddled with Android re-sampling issues, a poor, relatively high-output-impedance amplifier, a poor interface or that just falls apart with a large library. Some of them have ALL of those issues.

    (*It's possible this has changed since May, when I returned my DP-X1, but I can find no confirmation that it's not still a problem, even with the built-in music player app).
     
  11. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    I still feel that Pioneer and Onkyo doesn't sound right for redbook audio since they only have a single 48KHz crystal clock vs Sony ZX-2 which has two crystal clock for 44.1KHz and 48KHz.
     
  12. elwappo99

    elwappo99 Friend

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    It seems I'm following the path you went down on these and I'm about 5-6 months behind you. Where does the path go?

    I was thinking about settling on 1 microSD slot, but trying to find a 2.5mm balanced dedicated player. Maybe it's best to just wait for the next generation and hopefully someone comes out with a decent 2 slot player.
     
  13. thegunner100

    thegunner100 Hentai Master Chief

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    I don't feel like going balanced on a dap is really worth the hassle. The zx2 has 128gb internal storage and can accept a 256gb card if that's enough storage for you.
     
  14. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    For me, so far, the path has resulted in arriving at a vertical cliff, with rocks and crashing waves at the bottom, and probably a big, hungry, sea-monster or two, and me finding no suitable replacement player.

    I had high hopes for the Calyx M ... as it can mount both a full-sized SDXC card and a microSDXC card. You can put 768 GB in that right now, and by the end of the year the 1TB full-size SDXC cards should be in the channel, taking it to 1.25 TB. Sadly it has absolutely terrible battery life, requires using the extraordinarily shitty Android Media Transfer application from OS X, and I cannot get a confirmation that it is bypassing Android's standard audio stack (which makes me think it's stuck with forced re-sampling).

    I don't think my non-negotiable requirements should be that hard to meet:
    • At least 512 GB of combined internal/card capacity (I have 576 GB on my aging AK120 and do not wish to go backwards).
    • A headphone output that isn't wonky and/or hissy with low impedance, high-sensitivity IEMs.
    • Mounts as a native USB storage class device in macOS.
    • 10 hours minimum battery life.
    • USB charging.
    • No forced sample-rate conversion.
    • Ability to handle large libraries (by which I mean significantly in excess of 10,000 files)
    • Fast, clean UX
    • No CS4398 chip sets; I just don't get on with them.
    • Proper indexing/library navigation (none of this "choose a Genre or Artist, then just get a raw track list of everything" stuff).
    Nice to haves:
    • Optical/COAX and/or USB DAC output
    • Proper line-out
    • Bluetooth
    • Wi-Fi
    • Streaming for TIDAL etc. (innate or via an app)
    • Balanced output (preferably NOT via a 2.5mm TRRS connector)
    • Touch screen navigation
    • Dual card slots
    So far I've found nothing that meets those requirements. AK could have iterated their very first offerings to meet those requirements, but chose, instead, to ditch the 2nd slot and tie storage capacity entirely to their "higher-end" offerings - and as far as I can tell keep the same, shitty, output stage.

    Right now the two new Sony's look somewhat appealing. But again, to get the storage I want I have to buy the $3000+ unit, AND deal with the fact that it's been done up to suit the "gold is best" crowd. I could be persuaded to buy one in black ... but then the cheaper unit, which is black, can't mount the storage I want ... so ... yeah.

    Not seeing a viable option that gets me enough over just sticking a Dragonfly Red into my 256 GB iPhone to be worth the hassle right now.
     
  15. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    I'm glad it's not just me, I was sure I was missing something. The closest that I have come is that Queststyle thingy.. Q1PR or somesuch? Sounds fine, nice build, two slots.. and a late 90s UI from hell :(
     
  16. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    If the card indexing is fast enough (say, a couple of minutes for 256 GB - rather than the quarter of an hour to an hour that some players seem to take), and it doesn't require AMTP to access the internal storage from a Mac, I could see grabbing one of these as a hold-me-over. But, in such a case, with the successor already announced, and allegedly shipping this month, I doubt the amount I'd be willing to pay would actually secure me a unit!

    Yes, I came very close to going down that route ... and it was mostly the UX that killed it for me too.
     
  17. logscool

    logscool Friend

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    The DP-X1(B) still has just 32GB of internal storage.

    I have not had any issues with my DP-X1 with a large music library or forced re sampling that I've notice using the stock player with the built in outputs (no external DAC).
    I have also tried many of the large capacity capable DAPs and have settled on the DP-X1 as the best of the bunch for right now and with the new version with the fixed jacks I really have very few complaints.

    The QP1R has a terrible UI especially if you have music stored on both cards. The OPUS#1 sounds pretty terrible and doesn't have any way to play music from streaming if you are into that. For right now I'm really pretty happy with my DP-X1.

    The only other reasonably priced option that I see with this kind of capacity would be the Fiio X5 2nd gen, but then you would again likely have a bad UI.

    This new pioneer looks to me like it will be a DP-X1 with a new skin.
     
  18. logscool

    logscool Friend

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    I forgot to mention the huge differences that the new Pioneer unit is 0.1mm shorter and also 3g lighter than the DP-X1.
     
  19. Warrior

    Warrior Friend

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    @logscool Guess I was misinformed. Thanks for the correction. I will get to hear the dpx1 at next meet. Want to compare it to my Cowon P1.
     
  20. MiRog

    MiRog Rando

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    My old iRiver is dying slowly so I desperately am looking for some decent new DAP. My CoC has narrowed to Fiio X5 3rd, which I tested, and which is within my wallet tolerance (and which has 2x 256GB slots, maybe more in the future, and this is of much importance for me). I also thought about XDP-100R, which I don't know much about, but heard different opinions, some of them "crappy".
    I follow your "Stream of consciousness" extensive test/fight with Fiio UX and I'm curious how could you comment your quoted requirements now, after all this tests?
    There's one more question - I didn't have the chance to test Fiio X5 3rd in Android mode. DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE? No need to say I don't have absolute hearing...
     

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