Please help SBAF USERS..Deoxit and other good Rig maintainace the inside story..

It's the boost I got by doing it that made me start this. We do engine controllers for Civil and Miltary jets so our cleaning is a bit OTT.
We use sulphuric acid fluxes on some products.
Old is a loose term..... Oxide starts as soon as the air hits it, gold plate isnt 99.9999 pure. Crap on plastic connectors, release agents on injection molded cables. The quality of the wash process after solder reflow or hand soldering...

The Red dexoit was a start from fresh approach. If thought it would damage anything I wouldn't touch it. The excess IPA to remove the most I could before gold Deoxit. . It is messy... but if it isn't soldered then that is a weak point..

Anything with this hobby can be anal. I do like messing and experimenting but from the best advice possible.

If you can't trace every supply chain part or process. You can't say a new minted Yggdrasil A2 is 100% clean and perfect. If my OPPO is so bad then what's others like? Crimped nickel on stripped copper wire plastic and powder on the outside of that wire..

If hundreds of people use SBAF some known what works, through experience or by profession.

Sorry to bang on Iam an altruistic kind of guy and I like helping others. The knowledge here is mind boggling but mostly scattered.

And I want to do something positive here rather than kill time and pick up a few tips...

Get what people do and get it all here in one place so SBAF is the place to come for the best advice..

Keep smiling
Dave

 

Sibilant was 'designed' for the automotive industry and is primarily meant as an 'apply and leave it' solution.
I used it on my BMW m/c and it made a noticeable difference in the operation of the FI system.
But it doesn't do well with multiple insertions/extractions as it tends to get 'crusty'.

The most impressive use of silclear (or any silver paste) was on my 4 pin xlr connection to my headphones.
And yeah it can get messy.
Use a little as possible and leave no 'clumps' on the pins.
I thin it out and sometimes just add thinner to the already coated pins to help the silver 'migrate' on the pins, after re-insertion.

DO NOT use it on TRS connectors as it will short out the contacts.

JJ

 

Connectors are always a weak point, so everything here is an attempt to establish a better/cleaner/tighter/etc connection. Something most people don't realize is that the mating surfaces are not actually smooth. Zoom in enough and you'll see that they are quite rough, and that two surfaces touching are really just the "peaks" of those rough surfaces in contact, with a whole lot of gaps in between.

Dirt/grease/oxide/corrosion all obviously result in poor connection, so we want to clean that stuff out. Many of those cleaners also leave a film that also serves as a barrier to prevent surface contaminants and air from reattaching. Note however that in the majority of those cases you want to actually have a cable connected. A bare exposed connector is going to accumulate dirt and goop no matter what unless it's a very heavy grease type coating. Two surfaces in close contact will retain some of that film in the tiny gaps between all the roughness and this will keep out air/dirt/etc. Capillary action may also help retain some of the applied cleaner/flimy-stuff.

Silclear and other colloidal solutions contain tiny metallic particles. The goop itself isn't conductive, but those particles are. Shove those in between two mating surfaces and in theory they will squish into those roughness gaps and increase your overall conductive surface. The goop additionally keeps out air and other contaminants. What bugs me about silclear is that since the whole paste is conductive, you could potentially create shorts.

Stabilant22 is an odd one. There are no particles, just the goop itself. The goop is normally not conductive, except when it's squeezed in as a film between two conducting surfaces and the presence of that electric field actually makes the goop conductive. So this is like a super version of the colloidal solutions without the drawbacks of accidental shorting. Downside = $$$.

 

I spoke to one of the Trent 1000 engineers today to give me a quick basic lesson in resistance. Trick the Borg queen with some hairy skin...
Anything blocking the path between two conductors causes a resistance and that energy can be lost as heat changing the voltage. (BTW stop me if even this child like explanation is wrong)
Capacitive properties occur when layers separated by a non conductor jump between each layer. Mainly doing this so someone can jump in and do better..Please.
Why this is bad for the earth I don't know.

I can see that an acidic stripper would remove oxide and some amounts of the base metal.
The Degreasers remove oil based and some materials that become a solute or emulsion.

Flux is a good example were it strips of oxide and acts as a path to flow the lead.

Alcohol dissolves the flux...

The silver or gold particle greases act as a conductive medium increasing the surface contact area. Reducing resistance...

My simple starting point is that you need the right materials to remove what's blocking a good connection. Reducing resistance, inductance.

From someone who spent 10 years cleaning Wave solder machines in a factory....

Cleaning is really removing crud... yer....
when you spill coffee on a work top you don't just wipe it around. You remove what's in the cloth rinsing then apply more solvent 'water' and repeat. A once wipe isn't a total job....
Before on my rig I was just using IPA. So a bit of grease from my sweaty hands and dust was all i was removing....
Me being the anul bast*rd when I tryed Deoxit out I did the entire power chain and signal chain. With a modest improvement.

But even if it is a clean as just coming out of a plating bath, most connections only contact at a few small points on the connector. TIM thermal interface material is used to max out heat transfer.
What do call it? CIM conductive interface material? Ground silver/gold to increase conductivity filling in the gap on the surface and between paths. Reduced resistance again and capacitance....

As JJ said CIM.. is great unless it spreads and causes a short circuit.

My OPPO is out of warranty so pimping my connectors is no problem.

This 3 point attack gives the most effective way of getting close to a good solder joint.
The high end Audiophiles say apart from being a dust magnet Deoxit can 'colour' sound. (change the signal properties of the contact) Once it's done it's job then a CIM material maybe best after removing the deoxit when it's done it's job...

But the Elephant in the room, no not the wife. .. Fancy decrapifiers 70ohm cables power blocks...uber clean connections...
....The inside is a time capsule on assembly day. PCB washes only clean off flux residue and dust/ solder balls. Not grease silicone, oxide on connectors. A friction fit can give a few almost gas tight contact points.

So Schitt on the out side can also mean SCHITT Inside..


My internal copper wire onto crimps I may just flux and solder them. No more messing doing this. It still leaves the pins on the male side.

I have Degreased, and removed oxide but left that acid oil on there (deoxit)
Stage 3 silver grease and see if there is any more improvement to get to an optimum state...

I really want people to jump in ,ask questions or give advice and set me straight. I am learning on the fly as well as imparting what I know... not much..

Is it useful apart from being long winded...
A wiki guide can be condensed down later while we hash out the best answers..

Good luck and keep smiling if you read this far... Sorry

Dave

 

Thanks Armaegis for a more succinct and eloquent post...

 

Another aspect that contact resistance makes is in small signal dynamics being 'changed'.
IOW as the signal loss across connections is reduced the micro details within the signal are less obscured ('choke points' are reduced).
This means more of the actual signal, in it's entirety, is 'allowed' to be presented to our ears.

And some might think what possible differences could such small 'improvements' make when they must be below our audible threshold.
To this I submit that when several such small improvements are made, the cumulative results of all of these 'choke point' reductions/amelioration's all add up to a significant net improvement.

And yes we are talking about that last 1-5%, or in some cases more of a change, but it is these seemingly insignificant improvements that, when the rest of the system has been tweaked, these improvements will have results that have far more impact upon the overall SQ than these small numbers would suggest.

IOW as the system is 'cleaned up', or as I put it, the system gets out of it's own way, that these sorts of 'choke point' reductions can yield most gratifying results and in ways that can be quite unexpected, and most welcome.

JJ

 

Interesting thread, I have been using deoxit but the residue is a problem, and it attracts dust. I also have the Furutech Nano liquid but haven't used lately.

Any advice for cleaning inside of connectors to remove old deoxit and dust?

 

There are actual tools that I've seen for cleaning rca connectors, but I don't know who still has them.
As for xlr connectors the male pins can be easily cleaned using the cloth pads that Caig Labs sells.
And the female contacts are a bit trickier but I figure somebody must make a tool for them as well.
I just use contact cleaner or automotive brake cleaner for crud removal, which can be 'enough' for the xlr female contacts.

JJ

 

Silver polishing cloths like these. Use ass end of q-tip wrapped in single layer of cloth to do the insides of rca connectors.

 

So magnify anything smooth and discover that it isn't. "a few small points" really sounds like stretching the facts too far. Keep your contacts clean, by all means, but beware of going over the top here!

Here's connector-cleaning step one: plug and unplug. with RCAs and other round connectors, give a twist. My bet is that this is also going to do at least a bit of smoothing out of those imperfections too.

I did an idiot thing once, which was to attempt to polish the outside of the RCA connectors. Yes, I made the connectors looser! Not a clever thing to do.

By the way: I wonder if our engineers know... I surmise that RCA connectors have at least as much surface contact area as small XLR pins. Is that true?

Not that I like RCA; I don't. It is an accident of history, not a proper design for the purpose. In fact... never mind the microscopic stuff, I bet that many connectors are not even very accurately round!

 

I just looked up the furutech nano liquid stuff... so it's basically just a gold and silver colloid. The silver would be good to start, but small particles can tarnish very quickly and lose conductivity.

This? http://www.musicdirect.com/p-9658-signet-rca-cleaning-tool-ea.aspx

 

The counterpoint to all of the reasons why not, is to try it and hear what differences are perceived.

And yes this is decidedly a dbl edged sword in that once the goop goes in it does become a PIA.
It is manageable if you have a DIY'r bent along with technical skills (to be able to clean it up/deal with it)…

But the end results are worth this extra effort, at least for me and those others who use this stuff.

For instance, I recently applied some to the grounding points in a Single Power amp.
Among other nifty changes was the elimination of hum from the amp.
And granted the connections were a touch loose and a touch corroded (but not at the contact patches).
And we also re-mounted the xfmr.

But there were sonic improvements but since I haven't heard them I can't say what they specifically are…
Suffifce it to say there was and remains a smile upon his face…

JJ
ps having taken apart several xlr connectors I can attest to the fact that the contact patch is many times greater than even the center pin connections, even on $$$ rca connectors, especially thru time as they are used and 'wear in'.

 

Or the ass end of a Q-tip or this

 

Yep
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/S-CAB-25
are the good ones for the female xlr.

Thanks for the link…

JJ

 

Thanks Thad E, BIXBY JJ..
I suppose I am going a little over board but it is for a good reason..get it all in the open and talk about it..
A solder joint is 100% The nano material marketing claim to improve this and contact greases. Connection points are in many cases very small. USB contacts are tiny with contact areas of two pins heads. Aerospace stuff use solid male pins but the female sides the internal tubes are slitted 50% and pushed in.
RCA TRS only touch 1-3% of its surface area.

So most are fine and work perfectly on areas smaller than wire bonding in IC's.

It's does mean there is only one point not to be 100%.... I suppose all this is making sure that's the case and how much of a difference it does make? I don't want to do anything thing I don't have too or suggest anything that's detrimental.

The audiophile sites have people using brasso on power plugs. The UK internal females only have 2 points of contact per pin...

So a bit more learned, Don't go crazy on outside connectors....
If you can get good quality wipes- non shedding so you don't leave fibres inside. I just got 200 lint free nail wipes for $1.50 and a bottle of IPA 99% for $5

I went mad with the deoxit but cheap isopropyl alcohol can get any excess off.
Friction from fitting removing can improve connection but how long that works for I don't know without contact enhancers.

Q-Tip make a good tool even with the cotton bud removed.. But you can buy RCA purpose made ones...

One tip is you can improve the connection of RCA and USB connectors by tightening them up.

The gold pins on one side are curved. They can be lifted up to give more grip and contact pressure.
USB B females have 2 metal strips left and right of the pins. They can be lifted up with something small making a tighter fit.

Anything that works and gives a measurable improvement , doesn't make things worse or stops things getting worse. How often and how much too keep things ok.

A bit of fact and best practice tips, value depends on effort verse personal improvement.
I still want people saying what they do on thier kit, good advice and people shouting out if it's just bullsh*t..

If you are thinking of going the extra mile and trying internal connectors. I am going to do some basic ESD good practice (Electrostatic sensitive Devices) before letting people loose inside..

What is it
Why do it
Facts
Equipment
Why are you in my house..
Please take what you want.dont hurt me...

.....

 

When I was reading the usb specs I was amazed at how sensitive the system is to signal loss.
This relates directly to contact resistances as well as wire size.

In fact I just replaced my usb cables with shorter ones and the shortest is 6" that connects my 2 Wyrds in series.
I also cleaned/lubricated them with deoxit gold.

It's hard to know where the changes came from, the cables, the 2nd wyrd, cleaning the contact patches, etc.

But a definite improvement and in multiple ways.

JJ

 

Having had a flood just a few months ago, I got some experience of cleaning up really filthy cables and connectors! Some of them (thankfully I do not subscribe to expensive audio cables buying*) just got thrown out, but much of it was cleaned (and sanitised) with IPA solution.

USB cables: USB A is manageable with flat wooden toothpicks. USB micro is almost impossible.

Most of my DeOxit use is for stuff like mouse switch contacts. It makes the difference between keeping the thing working and throwing it away. I don't decry the use of deOxit on audio connectors, and have used it thus, but it has never made a works-fine/throw-away difference, or, in fact, any difference I can claim to have heard --- apart from the phenomenon that time and energy spent always improves sound (or ruins it, if one is in that mental state that day ). If I was buying new, I'd like to put the DeOxit Shield on everything as soon as I opened the box --- but I do classify my environment (tropical, humid, polluted city) as extreme. I don't actually have any: hoping to get a friend to bring some from USA soon. (I have the D100 spray). I'm just very cautious about crossing the FUD line here. It is a line that much of the consumer audio industry depends on.

By the way, for cleaning any surface, unless you need abrasion (and remember that polish means abrasion, just fine abrasion) there is no material to beat microfibre. From the bathroom to the kitchen to the car to the hifi. Truly wonderful stuff.

*(I even consider Blue Jeans to be expensive, but I also consider it well made from quality cables and connectors that use materials for real-world reasons)

 

Let's talk about shocking things....

ESD......
What's that...Electrostatic Sensitive Devices.
What does it really mean :
Expensive Sound Destroyed....

I have asked people to clean the internal connectors as it's worked out fantastic as my kit is now unbelievable to what is was.
I think others can to... but...

Any chips inside can be damaged just by waving a hand near them. If you get a shock off a jumper, escalator or a car door that's probably over 2000 volts +. Less than a hundred can fry a chip/ IC. A Van De Graaff generator creates static. So does your tee shirt and jeans. Just looking cool you build up a static charge that wants to jump to earth.
With a difference in potential....from you to your expensive DAC...The ESD strap has a resistor to drain off slowly and steady. .

So... before jumping in with a screw driver.

Your Amp ..dac has a built in earth it doesn't work without the power cord attached.
You don't drain static without you attached.

For safety .. music is better on when dancing.. Not you dancing because the power is still on...

Never touch live components, turn off at the outlet or better to MOD an old power cord...Remove the fuse and cut off the live and the neutral wires.
Safety first safety last always.....Check local Countries.. rules practices..

The kit...... As a minimum... an ESD Strap. Ie..
http://www.amazon.co.uk/chinkyboo-Anti-Static-Adjustable-Grounding-Dispatch/dp/B004XBBYSY
They come with a small crocodile clip you can attach on the case chassis(same as the earth bond from the IEC).
Be careful find a good location as it can pop off. Ironically I had two old ones in the garage that failed test. Deoxit fixed them...I use 2 at once anyway...

The wife wants food so ill come back and edit it...

Most people outside of industry and in industry.... Don't use ESD coats. (It's like religion some believe or just xmas and Easter)
The good ones are a faraday cage. The cheap ones are well... cheap...but better than nothing. Don't have long sleeves cloths sticking out and fasten it up all the way..

https://www.fruugo.co.uk/3m-4440-di...UPhj9vaXhwPQlVNBs0q3qwch2KWsItrDRfxoCQArw_wcB

Can't be bothered to spend 15 dollars....
How much is your DAC Amp worth.....

You can buy ESD matting and earth... though it costs more per metre than hand stitched cashmere carpet.....

There are more resources but just do it.. see here for wikiteach on the interwebby..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antistatic_device#Antistatic_wrist_strap

If you remove anything with more chips than a big girls pantry...

Put it in an ESD bag. You get them with new sound cards graphics cards. The plastic looking aluminium bags..... This still counts for your PC parts.....

It a nut shell . ... Your computer DAC AMP expensive electronic device. In industry they follow best practice for a reason. No ESD events cannot be removed ...just managed. Not all events stop a device from working. In effect it can be like cutting 3/4 through the fuse and waiting for it to go pop...If 4 dacs go pop ..would you accept a 5th from the manufacturer....
Maybe Audeze....8^p ..
Be safe and you can get inside. A few dollars insurance...for a wrist strap and anti static coat.
Put parts in ESD bags not in use.
Do this and you can improve the internal connections without making thing worse or broken.

A safety tip... If you wouldn't let a loved one do something without knowing they are safe...
Why do it yourself if you aren't either....
Safety first..Safety last... In twenty years that beloved Dac will be soup cans Or be buried under ground. Better it.. than you under ground becoming soup...


Going to bed now. Next.. back to confusing talk about lubing male parts for better sound...

 

I am stuck at the moment, waiting for silver silclear to arrive. So I thought I'd start on a diy power cable I got off MCRU in the UK.
I am sure kits like this are in most countries. I went further and got a silver plated IEC with an aluminium housing from ALIEXPRESS FOR 10 DOLLARS. Looks fancy and I am not paying for a furutech $$$$$.

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/...-mcru-no-2-diy-mains-lead-set-lapp-cable.html
The kit came with uk spec wire terminal crimp covers like on a shoe lace silver plated. The plug is just brass copper so I spent the time sanding with 1500 grit to smooth off and remove tarnish. Now an acid dip with aluminium foil and bicarbonate...

Silly and excessive to most but it's experimenting from a recommendation for a Hardcore audiophile saying power cables help. I am going against regulations after crimping the end caps onto the wire I have added a touch of silver solder inside.... My risk. Now stripped and cleaned I will connect it up. Good connections is what I am trying and a shielded good cable.
The plug end will have the shield braid on the earth terminal.

It's gave me the confidence to solder the terminations in the OPPO the female crimps. Half of the connection breaks in the Amp DAC. POP them out of the fame plastic housing and flux and flow with silver solder.

I went the extra mile to see if there is any difference from a cheap computer cable to audiofoolery madness. This seemed a cheap ish risk. @ +40 is dollars total. And some elbow grease. A touch of gold Deoxit.
I'll edit in some impressions if there are any noticeable sound differences.
Tweaking non soldered joints with Deoxit has helped inside and other power points.
But does a fancy German Cable and some silver plug connection's improve anything ... We shall see...
Hope you all had a good weekend

Dave..

Edit: I didn't solder the UK plug, the wife came home early.... It looks nice as DAC porn . I must admit it as much as it maybe just in my head...
The cymbals have more shimmer not sure about the rest... did I say it looks nice...

A play through my gold standard tracks, dammit there is more detail there and I lost a bet..

If I could clean and do the same on the molded free kettle cable. Would it be the same improvement? ??.

It's better to my ears so cost verse improvement.
A win !!!!!! and I owe someone a drink in work....

JJ said he would do a general article on contact resistance. One contact path from the local power station to your speakers, headphones is impossible and just a few metres of wiring from your outlet shouldn't make a difference. So far I have been proved wrong. The technical reasoning behind why might add more weight to all this effort...

 

Hardcore audiophiles thrive on the silly and excessive, not to mention the $$$. Don't emulate them: avoid them! There is a point beyond which all reasonability is left behind; there is a point where the whole thing turns into what looks to me like mental illness. Beware! It's catching! I for one have only narrowly escaped!

Keep your contacts clean... including your mains plugs. Enjoy simple and basic measures, whether you hear a difference or not. When you do hear a difference, at least suspect the rule I mentioned above: time and effort spent always gives better sound (or ruins it, if that is the day's mental state).

The trouble with this sort of before and after stuff is there is no way that we can do serious and valid (ok, definitions vary) comparison. There is just too much time involved, which is one of the reasons that makes the above rule work.

I'd hate it if you thought I just wanted to rubbish your ideas. I hope you don't mind a bit of Whoa! Hang on there...

It is very rewarding to do some research into ears, brains and minds --- but i think you are maybe looking at that stuff too.