Ragnarok Versus Speaker Amps

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Rotijon, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. Maxvla

    Maxvla Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    OKC
    OK, so I just had a problem with this setup. I asked Jason for advice and he says not to use Mini Maggies with Ragnarok. Something about 2 ohm load and shared ground through the bass panel. It did sound good while I was using it, but Jason thinks the amp was being pushed into protection and led to another problem that has rectified itself now.

    So, don't use Ragnarok with Mini Maggies setup.
     
  2. NoStream

    NoStream Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Oakland, CA

    Good to know. I wasn't aware that the Minis are 2 ohm when driven with the bass panel. Although if it's the bass panel that makes the overall load 2 ohms, some foolhardy person could try some full-size maggies with the Rag. |\/|
     
  3. Maxvla

    Maxvla Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    OKC
    Sounds like it wouldn't be an ideal setup in any case. Emotiva is the answer there, I suppose, or maybe a future large piece of Schiit.
     
  4. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    9,937
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Texas and California
    Home Page:
    To be clear, I don't have any experience with the Mini Maggies, but any system that has a single speaker with connections to other speakers (like the Mini Maggies bass panel) is immediately suspect of having common grounds--which will trip the protection.

    In addition, the way Magnepan adds bass panels to their full-range speakers also means the system is now a 2 ohm (or less) load. Again, not recommended for Ragnarok, as it will absolutely trip the protection. Maggies, even without the bass panel will also typically trip Ragnarok's protection near the top of the volume knob.

    Aaaanndd...I just have to say this: we have 1.7s at the office. I've used them on Ragnarok. I've also used them on many more powerful amps. And, despite Ragnarok being the Audiophiliac's Product of the Year, and his elation with Ragnarok and the Magneplanar 0.7s, I *personally* would use only a seriously powerful amp with the Maggies (like the 300W PS Audio or 500W Emotiva we have.) But that's because I want excellent headroom and dynamics in a large room.

    Soo....if you're using Maggies with Ragnarok at low to moderate levels, sure, it's a good match, but if you want to crank it, and/or have a large room, it's not the amp I'd go to first (which I can say the same for any 60W/8 ohm amp on the planet.)
     
  5. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

    Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    summit-fi purgatory
    not to rain on your parade jason, but it's steve guttenberg... I mean.. yeah.
     
  6. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Cinnaminson, nj
    Emotiva might rate their amps for 2ohms but, tons of people complained that they're amps are blowing and kicking into protection at heavy loads.

    You can probably get a beastly pro amp for prices of emotivas... They're usually much more stable under heavy reactive loads and will even run under a short circuit. I use crown amps for big jobs and even home use. Most crowns are safe doen to 1ohm loads but will require atleast 20a-30a circuit to run off. I use 25a circuits for all my crowns on separate breakers for each amp.
     
  7. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    805
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Jason, are there any potential issues connecting a REL T5 subwoofer to Ragnarok? I'm considering buying one to augment my Event Opal monitors. The Opals are connected to the balanced pre-amp outs and the REL would be connected to the speaker taps.

    REL connection guide/owners manual is here:
    http://rel.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/REL_Serie_T_Manual_08-11.pdf
     
  8. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Cinnaminson, nj
    No. The sub is powered so it has It's own built-in amplifier. The high level input from the sub to amp will be no load whatsoever.
     
  9. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    9,937
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Texas and California
    Home Page:
    There's no problem with a powered subwoofer.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    We need a mega Schiit power amp for cheap (relatively cheap).
     
  11. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

    Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    summit-fi purgatory
    We also need a schiit source and a schiit multi bit portable dac/amp

    Also maybe a higher end valhalla
     
  12. kapanak

    kapanak Canucklehead - Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    259
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I second the higher end Valhalla 2. They did something wonderful with Val2, but I feel like at twice or trice the price, they can compete with the likes of EC high end amps. Perhaps a switchable transformer coupled and OTL mode amp. Something that can do Valhalla 2 and Torpedo 3 in one amp. :O

    A Schiit multibit equivalent of something like the Concero HP or iDSD Micro (form factor-wise) would be amazing!
     
  13. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

    Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    summit-fi purgatory
    YepYep, II also really want a schiit transport.

    Mainly so we can stop this insanity about usb regening and spdif converters and also this other junk
     
  14. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    9,937
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Texas and California
    Home Page:
    Heh heh.
     
  15. kapanak

    kapanak Canucklehead - Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    259
    Trophy Points:
    63
    From the last chapter of 2014:

    "So what will we expect to see? Less products, but more significant introductions. In fact, I think I can safely say that all of our planned intros will be “one and only” products that will really surprise you.

    It’ll start with Yggdrasil, of course. Q1 is the target. With any luck, it’ll be mid-Q1. But we’ll see. I don’t think we need a beta test in this case, either, so when they’re available, they’re available.

    And that leaves three mysteries.

    Mystery 1. Expect to wrap your mind around a couple of new concepts with this one. It’s really hard to say anything more about this…but consider that one component of it will be compatible with some of our other products.

    Mystery 2. I’ve said I’ve been working on a new balanced topology, and that will be incorporated into one of the planned mystery products. It does not replace anything we’re currently selling, but it does take us in some surprising new directions. And that’s all I’ll say about that.

    Mystery 3. And expect something that nobody is expecting from us. I can’t say more.

    And, of course, there are a couple of wild cards, too…we’ll see what happens with those as we get further along in development."

    Mystery 1: LISST?

    Mystery 2: Um ... O_____O

    Mystery 3: UM... This one could be Transport or Turntable. Could also be a monoblock or megawatt speaker amp. Can't be a speaker, since Jason said he is so freaking done with transducers.

    Wild cards: Gungnir Multibit, Bifrost Multibit, and Mjolnir 2 (with both tubes, and solid state mode using LISST).
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  16. NoStream

    NoStream Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I believe Schiit has stated that they'd rather not mess around with transformer-coupled tubes.

    I'd welcome a higher-end OTL though. That could be delicious seeing as the Valhalla 2 is already great.
     
  17. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    505
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Well Grounded
    One of, if not the single most attractive aspect of The Rok, for me, was the simplicity of the signal path.
    Especially the output stage using only 2 active output devices/channel in a balanced configuration.
    Now granted the rest of the amp is complex, very complex.
    And granted not knowing the front end voltage gain stage design tends to make for a question as to it's simplicity, even so, its hard to imagine it is any more complex than other front ends.
    And yeah there are 3 stages of gain in the front end, but you only use one at a time, thus the simplicity of the signal path.

    And getting 4 watts of class A power in true balanced operation with 'plenty' of headroom beyond that, AND doing it with minimal complexity in the audio path (Big voltage swing potential, no feedback, no coupling caps or servos, auto bias, etc, etc.) just to drive ≈100mW of power into my 800's is MASSIVE overkill.
    But all of this misses the point.

    This amp has control of the driver, no matter what is going on with the music.
    It delivers bass with nuance such that the tone/timbre/harmonic sturcture of the bass is easily heard and recognized, with harmonic extension down at least 1 to 2 octaves below 20Hz.

    This capability to deliver effortless power and exquisite control, well below the sub-audible spectrum yields results that can be felt, out of headphones.
    And it is most impressive when I can feel concussive effects in my chest, when that big 6' drum is walloped, hard, which usually evokes a gasp/chuckle, closely followed by astonishment.
    And this same degree of control of the drivers extends all the way up the acoustic spectrum.

    I'm sure there are other amps that can do this as well, but very few have a 'matched' Moar Knob to keep the channel gain even close to being the same, anywhere it happens to point, (which contributes greatly to this level of bass performance), at least anywhere even close to this price point.

    And I do run speakers off this amp but they are mostly for background music etc.
    They simply can't compete with the level of focus, inner detail and dynamics of 800's.
    So I don't expect them to be a substitute.
    But they continually surprise me with all manner of acoustical niceties (soundstage, in all 3 dimensions, coupling into the room, etc.).
    And that they improve as much as they do especially as the system improves, is probably due to The Roks control over the drivers via the very low output impedance and reserve power capability, which speaks to their degree of scaleability.

    Yeah, I really like my Rok…
    And it scales like a muth'a…

    JJ
     
  18. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    The extra nice thing about pro amps is you can often find them dirt cheap on the used market from your local craigslist or pawn shop or whatever. Find some old heavy ones pushing class A/B for your mains, and a less-old class D kilowatt amp for your subs.
     
  19. Rex Aeterna

    Rex Aeterna Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    212
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Cinnaminson, nj

    yea. they can be easily found for reasonable prices compared to home amps. dont sound bad either with strong enough signal and proper source behind them. they make companies like krell a run for their money.

    on side note, crown still makes class a/b amps with their pricier xti2/cts/cdi series but, uses switch mode power supplies instead(which is fine).

    i also think class d amps are not bad for home hi-fi i think. im actually doing oppisite. i use my crown xls 2500 for mains and xti 4002 for subs at home but, never had issues with my xls on subs before though. i just like the extra balls my xti 4002 has in mono mode(2400w@8ohms) compared to my xls 2500 (1550w@8ohms) and need the bit extra headroom.
     
  20. Cakecake

    Cakecake Guest

    Silly question.. can you stack Gungnir Multibit on top of raggy? I don't think raggy can go on top..but there are also vents on top of raggy though..
    Would it be wiser to upgrade to Yggdrasil?
    Planning to dive into the speaker world..
     

Share This Page