Ragnarok Versus Speaker Amps

Yes, you could but anything on top of The Rok amp, but it's gunna get warm.
Warmer than it normally would.

If you raise it up an inch or more, and put a layer of something (I've found that thin slats of wood are best) between the 2, with air space on both sides, this will help.
DO NOT block the vents on top of The Rok.

As for the Yggdrasil, as others have stated, Just Do It.
It is the DAC bargain of the century

My 2¢

JJ

 

I've got a liquid crimson parked on top of my Rag, and they can both run just fine while stacked like that.

 

I'm using hockey pucks underneath all my gear. They work well as a spacer and dirt cheap dampener/vibration control.

Especially good for Rag to give it extra ventilation space below/above.

 

This is the most Canadian post I've ever seen on SBAF...

 

That is what I'm using as well, sort of.

They are hockey puck shaped vibration absorbers sandwiched between slats of wood 1/8" x 3" x 12"
They raise The Rock up off the dac and help with increased air flow as well as reduce the heat transfer to the hockey pucks.

JJ

 

I was seriously considering picking up a bucket of these today... http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/pail-of-12-pucks-0830175p.html

 

my god, schiit made a big advertisement:


Thor: Ragnarok (2017)

 

Link?

 

Mate... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3501632/

 

Huh, this was listed nooooo where on Head-Fi. I thought that's where you shilled first.

 

After searching for a Ragnarok for a very very long time to try out for my speakers (86db sensitivity), i finally found one (2 actually, a 230v and 110v).

How do they sound with speakers? Well, i am only putting this review out after the amp has sold to someone on HF, and for good reason.

There's no easy way to say it, so ill say it as honestly as i can.

They were one of the worst performers I've ever heard on my speakers. They might sound better with headphones but I have absolutely no idea as i had sold off all my dynamic/planar headphones, but a member here did say my experience with the Ragnarok corresponded with his headphone experience.

To be fair, he did enjoy his headphones with the Ragnarok quite a bit. However, he did also say that the speaker amp he used after the Ragnarok was miles and miles ahead.

As for the sound, the mid's were harsh, brittle and digital sounding. The highs were like clear glass/crystal, except instead of tinkling, they were cracking and breaking. The bass was the kicker for me, just horrifying. Completely uncontrolled, boomy, felt a little like being suffocated in a burning room. As for the grain, this amp can feed africa with it.... Ok, i admit i'm exaggerating a bit on the grain.

The above complaints were relatively tolerable up to 50% volume, but pass that, they get shot to hell exponentially.

I personally blame that computer thing they have going on in there. No idea why, but i'm staying away from amps that have computers adjusting operating points in the amp.

Before continuing, let me say this. I really enjoyed the Vali and Valhalla 2. They were quite a good piece of gear.The Bifrost MB and Yggdrasil is also amazing. But if Chang and Head-fi ever over-hyped something at the same time, it was the Ragnarok.

As people might notice, I change gear pretty often, but this was the first time an amp was put up for sale after less than 2 hours of serious listening.

(My taste and yours may differ, i also found the KEF LS50 that many people love here sub-par. They sounded incoherent and unrefined. If you found the KEF LS50 the bee's knees and the best bookshelf speaker ever, you can basically stop reading as my experience wont correspond to yours).


THE LONG BIT

Introduction
I've first heard about the Ragnarok about 1-2 years before it came out. And after my very positive experience with the Valhalla and Vali, i could not wait. I think i must have read Jason's book on head-fi at least 3 times front to back with the Ragnarok post being the most often. I have also recommended and advised enough people to buy 2-3 Ragnarok's worth of Vali and Valhalla's.

When it came out, i was still a student in college and could not hope to afford it retail (along with the shipping and taxes) and so i waited for a second hand unit to pop up. Locally and 230v if possible, but i knew it was going to be a long shot. And so i waited and read the innumerable reviews. If the Ragnarok have left me with one positive experience, its that the process of waiting for it have given me the patience of a Buddhist Monk.

About 1-2 months ago, a unit finally came up for sale. This time i was ready. I was 1 year out of college and my online business was taking off. I bought it quickly and had it shipped to Singapore. Whilst i was there, a friend was also selling off his Ragnarok to a local buddy. So, i went from having no Ragnarok to 2 Ragnarok within a day. Wow.. when it rain, it pours.

At this point, i was beyond excited, i covered the 310 miles drive back to my place in 4 hours (including the slow-ass customs and immigration queue) and within minutes of reaching home, despite being dead tired, i somehow managed to lift out my gigantic 60 pounds Modwright KWA100SE whilst in a doggy pose(i had to bend down and forward about a meter) and slotted the 230V Ragnarok in.

After about 10 minutes of hooking it up, reading the manual and hearing the clicking to make sure i was using the speaker outputs (god that was some confusing and fiddly shit). I started up my favorite CD and Song (Kind of Blue, Flamenco Sketches). And with each harsh and brittle note coming out of my speakers, i felt my enthusiasm evaporating.

However, i figured its just a blimp. It must need warming up. I had tried out a Hegel H20 for a friend and that amp sounded a little harsh, brittle and sharp when it first turned out. And it did settle into a very clean, neutral and dynamic amp after an hour that i was a little sorry to see go away. So, i left it on and went for a shower and dinner whilst it wailed upstairs.

It did not improve even after 2 hours and the amp was toasty enough that my cat was simultaneously both attracted and repelled by it.

I figured it might have been due to it being damaged during the ride home, highly unlikely, but the customs official did shake the box a bit. So i hooked up the 110v unit with a step-down transformer. After about 30 minutes, everything opened up...not the sound, but my mind. And i came to the realization that the amp is simply.... not good (im being very polite out of respect), as it was highly unlikely statistically for both amps to be broken much less in such a similar way.

Comparisons

The Ragnarok (Retail:1,699, SH:1,200-1,350)
Hegel H20 (Retail:5,750, SH 2,500-2,800)
Modwright KWA100SE (Retail 5,950, SH 2,300- 2,600)
Ayre V3X (Retail 3,950 (It was sold in 1996), SH 1,000-1,300)

I remember reading a post by Schiit where they said that the Ragnarok is an amp that can look at the best amps in the world and not blink (or something similar). So i found it apt to compare the Ragnarok to solid state amps i feel is at that golden price/performance ratio before we go into stupid category. Though, the D Agostino's sound really really nice. The Pass were also super nice, but so is my Modwright and the Hegel's.

I think the Ragnarok might have blinked at one point or another as it got pummeled into the ground.

Hegel H20 and Modwight KWA100SE
These speakers are like 2 equally good chefs that cook in different ways. The Modwrights use a little bit more soy sauce, the taste a little more rich and a bit more filling/thick and the tone a little more warmer. While The Hegel is just cleaner, purer, more transparent and dynamic. But they are both still very good, its probably down to what you prefer.

Disclaimer: I don't own the Hegel, i just happened to have heard it for an extended period of time.

The Ragnarok on the other hand.... i honestly don't know where to start. Ill just quote above. Just ask here or pm me if you need more info or comparisons. If i start describing whats wrong with it, it will take me at least another 1-2 hours and i'm not getting paid.

"As for the sound, the mid's were harsh, brittle and digital sounding. The highs were like clear glass/crystal, except instead of tinkling, they were cracking and breaking. The bass was the kicker for me, just horrifying. Completely uncontrolled, boomy, felt a little like being suffocated in a burning. As for the grain, this amp can feed Africa. Ok, i admit i'm exaggerating a bit on the grain."

Frankly put, the Ragnarok are simply not comparable to these.

Ayre V3X
This was an amp i've had for a long time. They were my reference before i could afford better things. Versus the Hegel or Modwright, they are behind in most category, however the most obvious would be the Clarity and Transparency of the Modwright and Hegel. The highs of this amp are still pretty comparable versus the Hegel or Modwright. The Ayre is also a bit grainy compared to the Hegel's or Modwrights.

Its been kept my basement for sometime once i had the Modwright, but when the Ragnarok was so completely beaten by the Modwright, i thought it might need something a little more in its weight class (when it comes to second hand prices)

When compared to the Ayre, The Ragnarok was slightly more grainy and less transparent. But in terms of bass, mids and highs it loses out completely, the Ayre just keeps way better control of the bass. The highs of the Ayre is also much more natural and airier sounding, while the Rag just sounds thin and brittle like glass. For the mids, the Ayre is just much more natural sounding compared to the Ragnarok.

I think one thing that just screws this amp up so much other than the bass. Is the "Tone", which is really 80% of an amp. Everything just sounds unnatural, harsh, thin and digital. The Ayre just sweeps the floor in this category

The Ragnarok is slightly more comparable to the Ayre than the Hegel of Modwrights, but its still irrelevant when looking at the big picture.

Conclusion
If you're looking for a headphone amp, you may want to consider the Ragnarok. But i would highly suggest you try it out first.

Having said that, i would suggest you get XLR to Banana Spades converter and just use a nice Class A speaker amp (with a pre-amp with 1db attenuation) with your headphones. I have on good authority that its a world of difference (you can also refer to the post's about using speaker amps with headphones in the January Meet thread)

If you're looking for a serious speaker amp, i would suggest you skip the Ragnarok completely. Its just not worth the money. If you must have some Schiit, wait for the official two channel amp but make sure you try it out beforehand.

If you're based overseas, id skip schiit altogether until you can try it locally. Shipping will kill you and it would be better for you to just put that money towards getting a good vintage amp, like the Ayre V3X for example.

In Jason's book, i remembered him saying something to the measure of Class D amps being very mediocre. You were right, and these were the first amps i found less enjoyable than the Devialet's. I mean it did sound a touch more coherent but it just got whipped on every other level, and the Devialet had Wifi etc and all that RF energy running in the amp.

 

Seconding that the first 5-6 watts of the Ragnarok are damn amazing. Also, it's super revealing of your source, hence why I came damn close to selling it when my source was an Uberfrost. It's not quite as magical with mids as a 45 SET, but few amps are.

 

@Rotijon What is the source and loudspeaker being used for this review? Mind walking us through some of your reference recordings?

 

Speakers: Franco Serblin Accordo's (86db)
Pre Amp: Sonic Frontier SFL 2 (it uses 8 6922 tubes)
Dac : Mark Levinson No 36 or Schiit Yggdrasil

@zerodeefex Yeap, the KWA150's can be a bit thick especially if they aren't the SE's. Thus the KWA100SE. However, even then they do still sound thick when compared to the Hegel which was incredibly clean and transparent. However, i think that bit is a bit down to taste, i did enjoy both amps quite abit. For the Ragnarok, i honestly could not stand it.

I've had no problems even with a unmodded HD800 to a M7 M9 stack. Or the relatively bright SR009 to KGSSHV combo. But this was just bad. Tonally it was just completely off once you turn em up.

@Smitty , Well, i cant say i've heard it at low volumes, so i cant really comment on that bit, However, if all your using is the first 5-6 watts, i think a good SET amp might be a better idea.

@OJneg, I usually start of with Kind of Blue (Flamenco Sketches, Blue In Green), before going on to Jackson Browne : The Next Voice You Hear (Sky Blue and Black, Barricades Of Heaven). Normally id explore a little more, but everything just sounded wrong.

 

I went looking for the specs on your speakers and I found this in a 6 moons review of them…
"The amplifier has to be capable of stably doubling its output while halving the load impedance down to 2Ω. Otherwise we end up with ‘rubbish’."

The Rok is not suitable for a 2Ω load.
I couldn't find a display of frequency vs impedance for them, but I suspect that they present a near short to The Rok so it 'protects' itself and the sound suffers as a result.

JJ

 

My on-again, off-again relationship with speakers is currently off again, and my 45 globes died and the funeral hasn't been arranged for them yet. And I still need to find replacements...

 

If that's true, that could explain how a schiit amp sounded like rubbish. I originally used the word "rubbish" in my review but decided to be nice.

 

If you seek verification a quick email to schiit support should help clear up the details.

JJ

 

I found the Rag + LS50 paired quite well, but I wouldn't say I loved the sound of LS50s with other amps or other speakers with the Rag. My tastes have changed over the last few months and I haven't owned this setup for about 3-4 months, so maybe it's not as good as I remember, but I don't remember any glaring problems. It was pleasurable to listen to and that was confirmed by several others (though I'm now like my new setup better).

The Rag was a bit thin and less resolving than I like with headphones. I didn't quite realize I was missing out till I heard the BW and I realized it was better at both of those. The Rag + HE-6 was alright, though it can surely be bested.