SBAF DAC Talk II

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Maxx134, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    It emulates a NOS Dac’s filter and impulse response. It sounds like shit.

    The best NOS DAC is by far Ive heard is the Holo Spring but it is unusable and sounds like shit over USB.
     
  2. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    You don’t want mud and softness for metal. No modern velvet sound AKM chip products are good for metal. No chifi. You don’t want anything with a bright sheen like current Apogee and Prism either. Nothing mid forward and thin like UAD Apollo and the grossly lofi RME.

    What you want is something like Dangerous Convert 2 (or the cheaper ones), Lynx Hilo or Aurora (N), MOTU AVB ESS Sabre. Older AKM chip gear can be good too like the SSL units and Metric Halo. SPL Madison and Crimson are warmed over a bit in the lows and lack treble detail. New SPL gear, who the hell knows. On a student budget, go for the MOTU M2/M4 and SSL 2/2+ Usb interfaces.

    A used Dangeorus Source or Dbox can be a really good deal but I’m not gonna lie, my MOTU AVB gear (not the M2/M4) is an upgrade from it in detail and stability.
     
  3. RedFuneral

    RedFuneral Facebook Friend

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    What sonic traits you look for in a DAC for metal beyond the lack of suck? What sub-genres? Detail isn't a factor in the low-fi I listen to; just don't want the DAC sounding confused or dialing up the brickwall factor.

    The SMSL so far hasn't had the 'velvet glare' of the OL DAC provided I stay off the Sharp filters, if its got bloomy low-mids my LCD2C-C counters them with a recession(saving me from mid-forward amp hell as well.)
    I'm not going to recommend the SMSL with its poor USB & lacking documentation but I can follow blast-beats about as well as NOS(+ the drums hit hard instead of being half rolled off) & it's not doing anything immediately offensive like anything DS I've owned in recent history: Ressonessence Herus(rubbery,) Questyle CAS192D(cherry flavored Vaseline filter,) Exogal Comet(p h a s e y,) OL(sizzle booom.)

    There any consistents in the pro-gear you like which would translate into the consumer DAC market? I get the DAC chips you like, but beyond that?
     
  4. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Metal has very unorthodox productions most of the time unless it's modern computer metal that sounds like poop on everything. The timbre can be completely different. I want everything to come through. that being said. no creamy warm poo low ends or etched digititus highs. speakers are infinitely superior to cans.

    Most hifi dacs are crap regardless of DS or not. If you're listening on a computer, there's no reason not to get a decent interface unless you're cheap and want to get a schiit modi 3 or something. The consumer dac market is a f'ing shit show. The TEAC stuff is awful. Chifi is awful. NOS dacs are mostly awful except for the Holo Spring. They're not focused on clarity, they're focused on selling a soudn and the more special the parts, the more they can mark it up. Expensive parts do no translate into clearer and more true, more high-fidelity (not really hi-fi as in the typical sound of hi-fi gear) sound. The best gear often uses very good clocks and power supplies with off the shelf dac chips and cheap IC opamps or even cheaper discrete transistors. It's all design. Lots of pro gear is bad too. They just can't afford to be THAT BAD and THAT COLORED unless it's Mytek where the big bad sound of some of their gear is the sound signature of that gear. With hifi gear, everything is off the table and anything is possible.

    Even a warm ass Lavry black is better than 99% of hifi converters and expensive cd players. Most of the hifi stuff is worse than a Yamaha cd player that costs a few hundred dollars with a TI/BB DAC chip. Pro audio will just eat up a different, mediocre type of bad like RME and Benchmark 3 rather than succumbing to the truly awful. You're not going to beat a Dangerous Convert 2 or a Prism for what they do for anything from a traditional hifi vendor in 2020. The days of the very bad digideisn 192 are gone in proaudio while the dealer hifi industry has mostly collapsed and left the doors open to direct sale and chifi. Direct sale can be decent to awful while chifi is usually just awful.

    Take ESS Sabre. Most of the hifi implementations were awful. It took Apogee a few tries to nail it in the Apogee sound but when they did, it was better than all hifi dacs with the chips. MOTU came out with a very utilitarian implementation that shat on the supposedly flat Benchmark implementation. Hifi has only now made inoffensive Sabres, suggesting their electronics designers were simply incapable of placing the chips in a clean design. I've heard from reliable ears that the Matrix X Sabre Pro is just a lot of money for uber detail and specsmanship without the killer dynamics. It's supposedly still lacking a certain something but it is competent. It just costs a lot and has no features but DA. There are no horror stories like with the JDS Labs or Mytek gear.
     
  5. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    The NOS setting on the ADI-2 is, indeed, awful. It has a slight touch of the NOS tonal density, but mostly it’s just adds treble roll-off and grain. I found the NOS setting totally useless during my time with the ADI-2.
     
  6. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    I have someone that wants to sell me a Lavry DA10 (I am trying to pull together a fairly low cost 2-ch system). I've searched thru the site and see mentions of it, but usually it's being used as a comparison point in a review of a newer DAC (ie., "think Lavry DA10 in terms of tone" or "it offers more clarity and dynamics than the Lavry DA10").

    I realize system synergy means everything, but it's hard to triangulate how something might fit with so little info. Can anyone tell me more about this DAC, and what would be considered a good price?

    Thanks
     
  7. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    @Psalmanazar.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  8. taisserroots

    taisserroots Friend

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    Iirc it's more the da11 being compared.
    The da10 is very old
     
  9. neomax

    neomax RobS / hinterlander

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    delte
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  10. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    [​IMG]
     
  11. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    Any speculations on the next Yggdrasil revision/upgrade? it's been almost 3 years since the A2 upgrade.
     
  12. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    It's warm and sounds good. Buy it if it's cheap enough and you can use it.
     
  13. wadec22

    wadec22 Almost "Made"

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    @Psalmanazar have you tried the Motu mk4 and m4? Is the AVB a significant step up sonically from the m4?
     
  14. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    No idea. External power supply always sounds better though. The AVBs are good. Best bang for buck pro interface around that works on both Windows and Mac without much issue.
     
  15. wadec22

    wadec22 Almost "Made"

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    any thoughts on the 624 or would you basically lump it in as the same quality as the mk4 and AVB? I noticed very slightly different specs on the 624 and it appears to have come out earlier, so I wasn't sure if the internals were as solid. price would indicate so, but hoping you have some more thoughts.
     
  16. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    The 624 is part of the AVB network line. The DA is the same in all of the now that the Ultralite mkIV and the Ultralite AVB were updated. The AD is better in the newer and full rack ones. The pres are slightly better too. Why not just go cheaper with an Ultralite or buy the 828es, 8pre-es, or 16a full rack units depending on your needs? The 624 is in a weird spot and the USB 3 chipsets are less compatible than USB2 while offering no more stability or lower latency.

    If you're podcasting, gaming, or making cloud rap, you don't need any of this shit. Buy the M2/M4 or the SSL 2/2+.
     
  17. wadec22

    wadec22 Almost "Made"

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    thanks man. yeah, you basically shed light on what I was curious about. with the 624 being newer than the UL but the UL marketing pages showing updates I was not sure what was rocking the same internals. yeah, fairly casual wannabe usage. just making sure it checks the sonic boxes that have been vouched for. I also like the DSP, wifi functionality, just need to decide if its worth the price tag. used deals always alter that dynamic a bit as well.

    as always, appreciate the insight. your candor and interface knowledge is awesome to bounce thoughts off of.
     
  18. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    No problem man. I've been through hell and back on these. MOTU used to lick butt but upped their game with the AVB Sabres. The ethernet stuff is awesome for expanding interfaces. ADAT sucks in comparison. The SSL thing looks super cool too. Same converters as the Alphalink.
     
  19. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    I've got a loaner of a Yggdrasil Gen 5/Analog 2 in-house and am doing some comparison to the Matrix X-Sabre Pro.

    I mostly hate comparing DACs, as the relatively small differences, while definitely there, can really spin your head around with their sometimes maddening subtlety. Not that I won't try to make some concrete impressions, but would love to hear from others about what they perceive as the relative strengths and weaknesses of each unit.

    One thing I believe I am hearing with the Yggdrasil... bass!! It seems several ticks bigger than the Matrix, to the extent that the lows slightly overload my room (Klipsch Forte III, medium-size room). The Yggdrasil bass also seems more textured than the Matrix and with better note differentiation. This is the biggest distinguishing feature thus far.

    I also *think* I'm hearing a deeper stage with the Yggdrasil. The Matrix, somewhat surprisingly, sounds a little sweeter up top. I do really like the tone of the Matrix--I called it "golden" or "burnished' in a previous post--though it can also sound a little hollow (just a very little) or scooped in the mids at times. Despite the bigger bass, I'm hearing the Yggdrasil as a little flatter/neutral or more solid/present in the mids, though with a slightly harder edge, a little more aggressive.

    Very early impressions though.... Thanks to anyone else who wants to chime in on these two. Yeah, I hate A-B'ing DACs....

    FWIW, I'm using the Yggdrasil SE out, coax in. Matrix also SE out, SPDIF in. Both from a Bluesound Node 2i, into a AES (Cary) DJH preamp and Quicksilver Mono SETs. The Yggdrasil has been on and warm for the last couple days.
     
  20. louiscipher

    louiscipher New

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    Does anyone have experience with Theta DS Pro Prime II? How does it compare to Theta DS Pro's or Sonic Frontier?

    It seems the Pro Prime used a bitstream DAC. Generally, how does it compare to R2R?
     

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