Schiit Aegir Power Amp Impressions

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by rlow, Oct 16, 2018.

  1. Rafael

    Rafael New

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    Dear @rlow,

    Thank you for your comments.

    Yes I am using two very different amps. In between this and one member of the forum that was concerned because his amps didn't have consecutive serial numbers, I will find a balance. For this first rig I was just having fun in the heat of the night with the amps I had at hand.

    Regarding gain and symmetry, I am looking forward to have a deeper conversation.

    This morning I bought a pair of this https://imgur.com/a/3VQ3JjZ. Yes splitters they are!

    I will use the splitters to follow you and demonstrate that I was wrong when I said you cannot biamp with a single pair of RCA preamp outputs. This one I think I can concede right now.

    However, the more I look at your diagram in page 42, the more I think there is something wrong. If you look at it for half a minute, you will realize that using the splitters this way is like putting jumpers in the speaker's terminals. I think it does not work.

    In any case I wanted to thank you again because this conversation is inspiring me to buy another Aegir and biamp again.

    All the best,
    Rafael
     
  2. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Hi Rafael, the splitters are on the preamp end, not at the speaker end. This is not the same thing as jumpers at the speaker terminals. All you are doing when splitting the preamp out is creating a 2nd set of preamp outputs, just like Saga has. If you have Saga, in fact you don’t need to split the preamp outs, because Schiit has already done this for you by including the 2nd set of preamp outputs.

    All you need to do with Saga, in order to vertical biamp, is to send both of the “L” channels from the preamp to one amplifier that powers your left speaker, and both of the “R” channels to the other amplifier that powers the right speaker. Then you would remove the jumpers from your speakers and hook up one set of speaker cables to the top terminals, and another set to the bottom terminals like normal. This way you have 2 independent left channels feeding the tweeter and the woofer separately, and the same on the right.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    You are thinking too hard. Step back and do not think or L or R for each amp. Think of it as channels 1, 2, 3, and 4 for functional / logical purposes.
    upload_2021-9-16_18-31-15.png

    This is how the logical / function blocks fit within the physical plane of existence. As we can see, there are no explosions.
    upload_2021-9-16_18-32-32.png

    It doesn't matter if channel 1 and 3 are L R of Amp #1 either. Each channel is distinct for amplifying one driver. It doesn't matter what you use for what as long as you route inputs and outputs for each channel correctly.
     
  4. Rafael

    Rafael New

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    Just arrived: https://imgur.com/a/ZbFL7Xp, I will report soon. I hope to be useful.
     
  5. nilov

    nilov New

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    Hi guys!
    Anybody tried Rag 2 like preamp with Aegir?
    Any impressions?
     
  6. Johnny Opps

    Johnny Opps Facebook Friend

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    I’m also going to throw out a benefit that you may or may not agree with. If you have dual Aegirs and the new KLH Model 5’s, you can nest these wonderful power amps underneath each speaker in their proprietary stands, and keep visual clutter and speaker cables to a minimum. Of course if you believe that the amps need to be isolated from vibration, it’s probably not your best bet, but I’ve done the experimentation on that front and can’t tell the difference once there are a few isopucks under each one. It’s superb.

    [​IMG]

    i can never figure out how to upload media here, but this is the KLH model 5, you can use your imagination to see where the Aegir fits in perfectly. Heat dissipation is just fine, these 6 ohm speakers really sing. Having long cable runs in XLR is pretty awesome.
     
  7. Johnny Opps

    Johnny Opps Facebook Friend

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    Question related to above.

    Running Rega P6 / Yggdrasil LIM -> Freya+ (with stock tubes on left, bad boys on right) -> dual Aegirs (nothing fancy, both mono) -> KEF model 5’s

    I typically find myself listening with tubes on and Freya+ at 12 to 1 o’clock. If really rocking out to Paranoid or Rage Against the Machine or Aeoroplane Over the Sea, I find myself at 3 o’clock.

    Is it “bad” to be running class A power amps like the Aegirs close to “wide open”? Am I better off with less gain? Or is there something positive sonically / for the power amps to be using so much of their range?

    fwiw, I love the way this set up sounds more than any other rig I’ve had in my home. So I’m asking more out of curiosity / desire to learn.

    Thanks.
     
  8. AdvanTech

    AdvanTech Friend

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    The amps have a protection mode. If you never trigger it, enjoy your system.

    A bit of a tangent since Aegir isn't true class A, but class A is technically "wide open" all the time.
     
  9. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    It's really a 4 ohm speaker (bottoming out at 3.3. ohms in the upper bass) with 89db sensitivity:

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-reference-5-loudspeaker-measurements

    I don't know how far back your sitting/how big the room is, but I bet if you are rocking out Rage Against the Machine those Aegirs are just about at their limit.
     
  10. Johnny Opps

    Johnny Opps Facebook Friend

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    sorry, my post said KEF, but that was autocorrect - they are KLH Model 5’s… which are really 6 ohm speakers with a dip to 3.5 ohms. So your broad point is right. Aegirs seem to drive them just fine, no clipping/protection mode even with Freya+ turned way up and uncomfortably loud.

    here are the relevant measurements for my speakers: https://www.stereophile.com/content/klh-model-five-loudspeaker-measurements

    one lousy letter :)
     
  11. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Well, the AES standard would require this KHL speaker to be labeled as 4 ohm's (with that dip to 3.5), but no manufacture follows it, but yea with that and an honest 88 db sensitivity, driving them with Aegir's in mono mode (which specifies an 8 ohm capability, but not lower) to drive them to rock the house SPL levels with Rage Against the Machine would be an upper 1/3 - approaching limit use case with the Aegirs. Glad to hear it works, as I am thinking bout revamping my office system with low sensitivity bookshelves driven with 1 or more Aegir...
     
  12. Johnny Opps

    Johnny Opps Facebook Friend

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    Yeah, I tried the KEF LS50 Meta’s that Steve Hoffman got so excited about pairing with the Aegirs, and I managed to get into protection mode plenty (and really didn’t like the speakers) so they went back.
     
  13. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Having been HP only for a year and a half or so, I have been wanting to re-set up a 'computer speaker'/near/midfield system in my office. So yesterday I set up my old KEF Q350 (mid-fi-ish I know) and cabled everything up. This time in addition to a Parasound A23, a favorite of @purr1n , I have an Aegir on hand so I set it up in stereo mode.

    The KEF's are 86-87dB sensitive, dipping to just below 4 ohms around 180hz (see here for measurements - I run them sealed mostly due to placement), but in my small/near-field space I thought maybe a single Aegir might stretch, with perhaps a little EQ.

    Nope. Even the lower mids don't have any substance, so my subwoofer can not compensate. Pop/Jazz is usually fine, but Classical very often has the Saga maxed and wanting more (unity - bal out of the Yggdrasil > transformer > Saga so 4V RMS). Female voices and up are sweet however. I look forward to hearing the Aegir on appropriate speakers that I am in the market for.

    So the Parasound it is until I get some Tekton's or whatnot. With it voices, detail and finesse step back...way back. Still trying to figure out what Marv sees in this amp...maybe it needs more warmup...

    Thought I post this experience for anyone thinking about running bookshelves with a single Aegir in stereo mode.

    It really did happen:

    desktop setup - Copy.jpg
     
  14. Btdk34

    Btdk34 Facebook Friend

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    I just purchased an Aegir and am attempting to use them with my PAP Trio15 TB speakers, but they keep going into protection mode a few seconds after startup even with super low volume. I've contacted Schiit support as well, but I was hoping to get a sanity check quick here too :)

    Should the Aegir be capable of running these speakers at low to moderate volumes?

    Also, since building these speakers, I moved from MN to AZ, and I packed the crossover in a box that's still in storage (I think/hope...). I re-built the crossover with similar parts for now, using the same Leonidas crossover design:

    [​IMG]

    -No R1 resistor (just a wire, same as before)
    -No R2 resistor (same as before)
    -C1 of 68uF (instead of 82uF)
    -L1 of 0.23ohm, 4.8mH (same as before)

    Would using the above values cause any issues with the Aegir driving them? If it's helpful, I can post pictures of my new crossovers.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  15. Chris Allingham

    Chris Allingham New

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    Anyone in the Portland, Oregon area with an Aegir or two, or know someone or a place nearby that might have it ? I would love to audition this, happy to offer deposit or other assurances. Thanks for considering.
     
  16. Johnny Opps

    Johnny Opps Facebook Friend

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    Question… is it utter madness to try to drive B&W Nautilus 802 with monoblock Aegir’s? 91db sensitivity nominally, but people use a lot of power into these quite often. A friend is selling a pair and I’ve loved them before, but definitely don’t want to get into getting more amps if I can avoid it.
     
  17. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Looking at these measurements (not the latest model probably), it's a bridge too far:

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/bw-802d-loudspeaker-measurements
     
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  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yup, a localized dip below 4-ohms is OK, but there is a big swath below 4-ohms from 80Hz to 1kHz. That can't be good and will probably put them into shutdown.
     
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  19. Johnny Opps

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    I finally gave up. In sort of a good way. Posted here to trade my dual Aegir's for a Vidar, because @crenca was right - KLH Model 5's with their 6 ohms and 3.5 ohm dip @ 140 Hz just were not cutting it with the Aegirs. It was too much to ask. So I met up with @HotRatSalad and hooked up the Aegir's to his SEAS A26s, which made for a VERY happy pairing, and I took home his Vidar, and now the KLH's are singing just great. Never heard this kind of thump out of them before. They are hungrier beasts than I realized - still learning my way around. Anyways, listening to Firehose right now and the kick drum is tight and authoritative - these acoustic suspensions are fantastic, even if they need some serious oompf to drive 'em. Now looking for a second Vidar just for kicks (see my WTB ad if you have one kicking around). Probably I'll build myself a pair of A26's and then get another pair of Aegirs again - those were fantastic, and a great pairing.

    TL;dr - learning to not be an idiot (tho experiments are fun).
     
  20. HotRatSalad

    HotRatSalad Friend

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    After living with monoblock Aegirs for a couple weeks, can't say how thrilled I am with the setup. Had a single vidar amp before, @Johnny Opps describes his scenario with 2 Aegirs and then one vidar.

    System
    pi2aes - BNC - gungnir a2
    Freya S usually 4x
    2xAegirs
    Speakers are seas a26 I put together.
    So I'm bad at reading measurements but these go from 8ohm up (I think) not down to some hard to drive 3-4ohm dip.

    My biggest fear was losing the bass I got from single vidar, but let's face it these speakers are not bass cannons anyway. I prefer midcentric systems that are smooth and more laid back, yes even if I listen to death metal sometimes. With single vidar I was very satisfied with things like doin it right and Haitian divorce as far as bass went, also sleep dirt from Frank Zappa brings the bass, but kick drums and bass guitar and classical music type of bass.

    First thing we did when I hooked up the aegirs is test the bass ! I think we looked at each other in disbelief because we didn't really think we lost any bass slam or impact at first glance compared to single vidar.
    2 Aegirs is really really close in bass on these speakers to one vidar. Might lose out a tad when it comes to that final visceral slam, however I feel bass in general is better quality perhaps, less one note maybe ?

    Where things get interesting is the HIGHS treble is absolutely fantastic with this setup as well as the mids. Just fully articulated spread out perfectly, quite ghost like when you pay attention to soundstage with certain recordings. Vocals and general ambience on things like Tusk from Fleetwood Mac are wonderful. Spacial placement of the vocals, the way you can hear drum skins sizzle from the vibrations around them, sometimes you can actually hear the room the performers are in, stunning.

    With single vidar gain 27 I got some hiss even in passive on Freya S, with dual Aegirs I have to really listen with my ear close to tweeter to even hear any at 4x nexus, Love that !
    The standby feature is pretty sweet as I like to walk away and come back often.
    I have noticed from cold start or standby (my room is like 65 average, pretty cool) the highs smooth out after 30 minutes which I have heard from others. I am also finding bass really dials in after 30 minutes or so. It seems like the amps sound a little "light" until they get nice and warm and toasty.

    These amps seem really happy with these speakers and I can't stop listening still after 2 weeks. The vidar in my system was great but it lacks the sweetness and finesse of the aegirs. Maybe to much power for these speakers, I felt like it was a tad strained at times, more closed in sounding a bit bright at times even with 15 ohm resistors on the tweeters. With Aegirs I am thinking of putting 12 ohm resistors back but it's so material dependent I've left it for now.

    I never thought I'd get here a couple years ago but this is certainly endgame for me !
    Thank you @Johnny Opps a really cool local to me SBAF dude, I think we both walked away just as happy as the other and ended up with amplification that helped both our systems reach next level.

    I haven't listened to one aegir yet though so no input on how it compares to 2 or 1 vidar.

    Apologies for incoherent rambling
     
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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022

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