Schiit Bifrost 2

I read Allanmarcus' review in the thread, that he couldn't hear a difference between the Bifrost Multibit and Bifrost 2. I've have some similar experiences comparing DACs in the past.

Have others compared the two and been able to more definitely hear a difference? How would you describe the difference?

 

Not long ago I happened to side by side compare Bifrost MB (not the latest rev I guess) and Bifrost 2 with using U16, SYS, Asgard 3 and Verite. U16 distributed usb input to BFMB (via spdif) and BF2 (via optical) simultaneously. Only unbalanced outs used. Sys served as input selector (volume set to max).

While their house sounding is a bit similar, from BF2 I could hear (1) a little better layering, (2) more mid/high details, and (3) much improved bass in terms of tightness and delineation. BFMB rather reminded me of Modi MB a lot. There are many factors that can cause biases. Please take with a grain of salt.

DAC difference is always subtle. We're splitting hairs. If you don't hear differences, I suggest not to bother (and love your bifrost), which may make audio hobby happier.

 

Yeah the bass thing is pretty immediately obvious if you have transducers that can actually make bass - 650 ain't it - the rest depends on your ears and how resolving your stack is.

My 2ch is in my bedroom and a bit compromised - the room *IS* part of the system in a 2ch - I can hear the bass defnitely and the layering a little but any detail retrieval delta is lost.

Bass is one of Vidar's big strengths though so it was worth it to get a DAC with synergy there.

SleepResearch_Facility's Nostromo is pretty magical now, which is pretty great for someone with chronic insomnia

 

I'm surprised you would say this. You've been on quite a few DAC loaners and I presume have had many different DACs in your chain(s). Your impressions/reviews have always been insightful, you've noted their specific traits, weaknesses, strengths etc. Maybe I read too much into DAC reviews, but it doesn't seem to me that the differences are that subtle. Do you think you're splitting hairs between say a Modi 3 and Convert-2? Maybe they are subtle with Bifrost Multibit and Bifrost 2, as they could be voiced similarly (I haven't heard the BF2). The Bifrost 2 don't read like no subtle change to me: darker, warmer, much better bass, etc. on par with Gungnir Multibit A1.

Sorry not trying to single you out, I'm still fairly new to the audiophile world. It's just I read DAC reviews here and I'm not sure if I should keep in mind that what people describe are very small changes. Right now, I'm more of a source first guy as that seems to make the most significant difference in my setups.

 

Dropping in to just say that in my experience even with relatively less weirdly voiced but technically proficient headphones (HD800 Anax modded), it took a fair while before I was able to reliably differentiate between the Chord Hugo v1 and the Schiit Bifrost MB A1. I had an easier time telling the difference between a Chord Mojo and the first gen iFi Micro iDSD, actually (iFi won per my preferences).

My listening skills could simply be subpar of course, plus I'm purely a headphones guy for now so no input WRT performance on 2ch (i.e. where nuances are more easily sussed out), but I've long held the belief that while DACs do make a discernible difference, mostly in sense of space and texture, such differences are mild at best unless listening critically, nothing that differences in amplifier or transducer don't supersede by an order of magnitude or more. I just read DAC reviews as by necessity speaking within the context of DACs, else there'll be loads of disclaimers about how differences are comparatively minute.

Even more of an aside: critical listening is not an enjoyable process. Mad respect for those that manage loads of gear evaluation writeups.

 

@treboR

For me, that's about orders of magnitude in changes.

Transducer delta > Amp delta > Dac delta > Power or cable delta

But I don't think smaller deltas more meaningless. I've experienced many tiny changes hugely affected my perception and satisfaction, sometimes even more dramatically than larger deltas.

Back to the specific example you mentioned, Modi 3 and Convert-2 differ. But not as different as Jotunheim and DSHA-3F. Not to mention these deltas are much smaller than HE6SE and Verite.

All these deltas are important to me. No matter they are small or large.

 

FWIW, I've A/B'd DACs using headphones and speakers, and I've found headphones are not good A/B devices compared to speakers when it comes to DACs. Speakers give you the overall presentation with soundstage and imaging laid out in front of you like a projection into your room, which tends to be where differences between DACs are much more apparent in my experience. Unless a DAC has specific issues that are readily audible (distortion, frequency response or other artifacts) headphones don't give you the "full" picture of the sound (again, in my experience). YMMV.

Also, I'd like to echo what @Vtory posted above, except my chart with 2-channel speakers would go:

Transducer delta > preamp delta > DAC delta > amp delta >>> power or cable delta

The above is with solid state power amplifiers. With tube power amps it makes a much bigger difference for obvious reasons.

To keep it on topic, I have a Bifrost 2 that just arrived today. I'll report back with direct comparisons to the other 2 DACs I have on hand: the RME ADI-2 DAC and Chord Hugo 2.

Also very recently I sold my PS Audio DirectStream DAC that I had in my speaker setup since January of 2018.

I have a dedicated listening room with a ton of professional acoustic treatment and using Dirac for room correction between my pre and power amp. Every DAC I've thrown in there recently has sounded markedly different albeit not exactly night-and-day.

 

My own experience is on par with the above post.
Couldn't agree more.

 

Why did you sell the PSA DirectStream?

 

Sorry in advance for the long answer:

TBH, it was the longest I've ever owned a DAC and I liked it quite a bit. It imaged better than any other DAC I've heard with the sort of image solidity that I hadn't experienced before with anything cheaper than the absurd kilobuck options from dCS. However, there were some things that nagged at me about it, specifically some audible distortion in the treble that I tried to ignore but never really improved with each firmware update. The kicker was (and I truly hate to admit this) when ASR published their measurements of the DS and they were abysmal. I'm not a objectivist by any means (and take everything I read at ASR with a shaker of salt), but the measurements confirmed some nagging suspicions I had and I tend to consult measurements to at least see if the basic engineering is sound.

Beyond that, I was just eager to try something new. "Budget" DACs seem to have come a long way in the past couple years and I figured it would be fun to see what was available while also selling the DirectStream to throw money into other hobbies and home projects.

 

EDIT: I'm an idiot and didn't try flipping the absolute phase. False alarm.

 

If the music makes your ears feel like you just got off a plane then try flipping the absolute phase. The Bifrost 2 has a button the remote that will do that. Try it. If the absolute phase is wrong the music will seem to "suck" instead of "blow".

 

Well, shit. Thanks for the reminder. When I unboxed it I immediately set up the BF2 with my Logitech Harmony remote and forgot about the phase button on the remote that came with it.

That seems to have solved the sucked out frequencies that were giving me listening fatigue. I'm editing my prior post to avoid causing any alarm.

 

Alright, last post for the night so I stop junking up the thread:

Since @Hammy helped me get the phase figured out (thank you again), I've been directly comparing the Bifrost 2 to the Hugo 2 I have on hand before it finds its way to a new owner tomorrow. These DACs are more similar than I was expecting.

The differences that I've noticed over the past couple hours:

1) The Chord is a bit more liquid and a tad smoother. The Schiit doesn't have any obvious grain but the Chord is just that smidge smoother and more flowing. I bet this contrast would be more apparent using very revealing headphones.

2) The Chord has less bass weight although the bass is a tad tighter. The Bifrost isn't loose or bloomy on the low-end, but it just seems to balance out the rest of the frequency response better than the Hugo 2. I've always felt the Hugo 2 was on the brighter side even using the warmer filters, so this is a good quality to have in the Bifrost. In general I would say the Bifrost 2 is warmer than the Hugo 2 and a more relaxing listen.

3) What surprised me was how well the Bifrost 2 images. You get some nice solid, 3-dimensional images and layering. The Bifrost is more forward so performers seem "larger" in the soundstage, and the Chord is perhaps a bit more compact and solid of the images it projects, with a bit better defined "space" between performers, but these are small contrasts. In general both of these DACs smoke their delta-sigma counterparts.

Honestly, some of this might be me subconsciously stretching to find points of comparison. I can tell you that I like the overall sound signature of the Bifrost 2 better. As I mentioned earlier, the Chord always seemed a bit thin and ever so slightly bright (which is one of my main reasons for selling it) so I'm really enjoying the meat and potatoes the Bifrost 2 brings to the table.

I'll withhold my final judgement until the honeymoon period is over, but so far I'm really smitten. This is a great DAC, full stop. When price and the feature set are factored in, it's a stupidly good value proposition.

EDIT: My setup is:

Roon ROCK server > Bifrost 2 > Simaudio P-7 preamp > miniDSP DDRC-22A (Dirac) > Benchmark AHB2 amp > PSB Imagine T3 speakers

 

@MyPetSasquatch, thanks for your feedback so far on the BF2. I'm curious to hear how it compares to the RME ADI-2 DAC.

My primary DAC is the Bifrost MB (along with various portable DACs) and I was thinking of getting a Bifrost 2, though I've been strongly considering the RME ADI-2 instead since it seems universally praised and reasonably priced.

 

Ooof, well I was kinda hoping no one would remember that I had the RME with me. To be honest I haven't even bothered hooking the RME back up since the Bifrost arrived, mainly because I was so underwhelmed by it compared to every other DAC I've had in-house recently. I think for the purpose of having an all-in-one for a headphones setup it's probably compelling, but for speakers it really fell flat for me.

It's hard to describe but the entire presentation had the exact same texture across the board regardless of instrument or performer. And it wasn't a smoothness, it was akin to that of a brown paper bag for lack of a better descriptor. I wouldn't even use the term "grainy" but maybe this is the "velvet sound" I've heard about? I want to use the word "hazy" but that seems too romantic, as it was more a lack of clarity in that the DAC was throwing rough approximations of the song at me instead of clearly defined instruments and musicians. There just wasn't much definition nor smoothness, and I didn't get any sense of a black background because the soundstage was so flat and lacking in depth that all I could think about was the monotony of the texture.

There was also some hardness or glare somewhere in the frequency response. It wasn't entirely uncomfortable to listen to, but it wasn't relaxing or pleasant. Keep in mind I never took the filter settings off the SD/Sharp filter so maybe I missed out on something that would have made all the above moot. I will say the settings and customization features were a lot of fun to play around, but ultimately make more sense if you're primarily a headphone user.

Different strokes for different folks, but it was probably my least favorite DAC that I've owned in the past 3 years. It was listed on HF 2 days after it arrived.

 

I have a question that is eating my guts out and I'd like to have some insight before I run and burn money.

SO, the Schiit Bifrost 2 is still going strong, happy with the Unit. Now... the USB portion of the equation. I find that it sounds really really good plugged to a Laptop. Easiest the best USB sound so far I've heard because I easily used to prefer the sound of the transport on Coaxial. NOW! USB is coming from a filthy source, a motherboard. I wonder... If I get a "purifier" or even better, I upgrade/swap my streamer to an Allo Signature USB with isolated clean power for the USB would it be likely to improve the sound? Or is this new Unison implementation just a great USB that already fixes the issues of USB and I shall see little to no improvement by bettering the source coming through the USB?

I am extremely curious about this route and if there could be any benefit by providing a better USB streamer than the computer, and likely cleaner than the S/PDF optical I use currently.

Any thoughts, impressions, experiences?

 

If I read your post correctly you now think USB sounds as good as your transport on coaxial? I think you answered your own question save your money No, I don't have Unison yet looking forward to it.

 

You will likely still get an improvement from a better USB transport, even with Unison. The difference between going direct USB (from my NUC running Roon ROCK) vs. going through my SOtM streamer into Yggdrasil with Unison (Beta board) is easily audible and better - better blackground, fuller and smoother, better staging and layering, more plankton, more relaxed. I had a Microrendu before that, and it was also better than going direct from my computer. Unison can only take things so far.

Pretty sure @earnmyturns has the Allo USBridge and found it better through Unison as well than straight USB from computer.