Schiit Freya + and S Impressions - Stream of Consciousness

why not use the Jensen and get a switcher to switch between amps? If you have a good switcher made I think they are transparent.

 

Yeah i made one a couple months ago. No remote though so that might be a thing: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/goldpoint-alternatives.10967/

 

This is the portion that my brain has always had a hard time wrapping itself around. How does adding an active piece of gear between two already signal amplifying circuits improve on anything other than a poor signal to begin with? I can understand salt+pepper, and if that is the answer, I am fine with that and have actually been looking for maybe a little bit of that. I think I'm sort of looking the same way @rhythmdevils is looking at it (maybe??) - a tube buffer that has an IEM output on the front and a remote control for the rest of the system seems more inline with what I'm thinking and the "salt+pepper" that my Jot A could use.

I have a feeling that my Jot A might be replaced and a real preamp will eventually be needed for a high current speaker amplifier that is stable playing at low Z. The RAAL probably would love something like that too

I really need to get one in my own system and find out if it helps my system or not. I currently have my Jot A right next to the bedside so adjustments are not too difficult.

 

An active pre is usually not about total transparency to the original signal, that's what good passive preamps are for. Actives are good for those situations where a passive will not work, or if you want to add "salt and pepper" as you put it.

I've only had the Freya S a few days and am still collecting impressions, but so far I'm hearing what ChaCha is describing. Will write up my impressions in the next few days.

 

I don’t understand putting the Freya in the chain can someone explain the point of this? Why not get a Jensen/transformer and a switcher, which are both dedicated to those tasks and will sound better? Or is the Freya offering more flexibility? Balanced to SE and vice versa or something?

 

You can extend this out to any active pre really. The benefits of an active pre are:
1. Impedance mismatching is basically a non-issue
2. Your cable runs are so long that they require an active buffer to prevent signal degradation/roll offs at the ends of the FR
3. BAL/SE conversion (if a pre offer this)
4. Deliberate changes to the sound

With the exception of the new Holo preamp that supposedly is as transparent as a Goldpoint but is an active (see Golden Sound's review: ), you want an active if your system requires it or you like the way that the active colors the signal. For example, as ChaCha mentioned, the Freya S noticeably pushes back the stage and adds a richness to the sound that is generally pleasing. It's less accurate to the source signal but it sounds good. Combine that with the BAL->SE conversion AND the switching capabilities, plus higher gain for lower volume sources or outputs, and there is a lot of utility in a Freya. If those features aren't useful to you, then do not pass go, do not collect $200, etc.

 

I have multiple use cases that Freya satisfied.

1. BAL->SE and SE->BAL conversion as I have a hodgepodge of balanced and SE gear and the balanced stuff sounds best with the balanced signal. This would require at least one if not more ISOmax or similar products depending on what gear I'm connecting to which output.
2. Routing several inputs to multiple outputs. I have a DAC, a turntable, and a CD/SACD player that has its own analog outs for SACD (CD is routed through the DAC). I have a headphone amp and a speaker amp. This would require at the very least a switcher, plus again the converters.
3. My sources are at different levels and my speaker amp is lower powered. The flexibility of 1x and 4x gain is very helpful when switching between these inputs.
4. I want the sound changes the Freya brings. I like the wider soundstage/headstage and the dynamic, lively presentation. An ideal passive pre won't offer those kind of changes.
5. Remote control for volume and immediate access to all sources and outputs as needed is beyond convenient.

 

Thanks Merrick and ChaCha. This has all been great info.

 

Edit: RMA'ed my Freya S.

Mods can delete this post. Thanks

 

Apologies if this question has already been answered, I couldn't seem to find it via search.

Currently I am running some RCA Clear Tops on the follower side, and some NOS Tung Sols on the gain side. I was experience noise in one channel (hiss/interference type sounds) that sometimes goes away with warmup, and sometimes does not. Through some experimentation swapping tubes, I discovered the issue is isolated to one of the tung sols. While I am going to replace the whole gain side (any recommendations? Seems there are a lot of fun 6SN7 options) I do want to identify which of the two tubes is "bad" and save the other for future use. Great sounding tube when there is no noise issues, would be fun to use in a Lyr 3 or something down the road.

Which channel is the front pair and which channel is the back pair? I found posts that say on the original Freya the front tubes are the left channel and back tubes the right channel. Is this still the case for the Freya+? I figured it probably is, but wanted to make sure before ditching the offending tube. Thanks!

 

Front pair is left, rear pair is right. This is very audible for me by simply tapping my fingernail on the gain tubes while it’s running.

I run the NP Tung-Sols on the gain side as well, along with Sylvania VT-231 on the follower side. Although the conventional wisdom says the gain side should be given the more sought after tubes, like the VT, I just like this combo the best with my setup. I find the TS to have a great tonal balance, and also well balanced between smooth and incisive/detailed. The VTs have more smoothness and body which is just a bit too much in my system in the gain stage, but is just right in the follower stage, as well as being very spacious and open (I find the follower tubes to be where more of the spaciousness and dimensionality comes from IME). No other NOS tubes I’ve tried have done as well for me in the gain stage as the NP TS have so far (I have about 6 other pair I’ve tried). As far as NP tubes, I like the TS better than the JJs, also better than the Northern Electrics. I’ve not heard any other NP 6SN7 tubes like the EH etc.

 

Thanks for confirming that positioning, and the recommendation, that is super helpful! I am pretty tempted to try some of the CBS Hytrons in the gain side, or the Psvane CV181-T MKII. (Sounds like Psvane is on the bad list these days though hu? curious about those tubes though) Ultimately I want to go something new production or from a super reliable dealer after these gain issues. Recently decided to give some quad matched NP Tung-sols a whirl but major noise issues in both channels, some sort of issues with the tubes. Still considering buying some new ones and just trying that out.

 

Impressions time!

System: 2020 Intel MacBook Pro running JRiver 28->Moode using SoX to resample to 24/88->Pi2AES BNC out->Gungnir->Freya S->Mjolnir 1->ETA Gen G. Also same path but Freya S->custom lower power SS amp->Blumenstein Orcas. Additional sources are a Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi running both SPDIF out to Gungnir for CD and RCA out to Freya S for SACD, and a Technics SL-1800 with Denon DL-103R cart running to Ray Samuels Nighthawk phono pre to Freya S.

As you can see, lots of I/O, balanced and unbalanced, different source levels, etc. I need a good preamp to tie the whole system together. My first preamp was the OG Saga, which to this day I still think is exactly what a good preamp should be. Transparent in passive, subtle nudges in the sound in active. However I needed something that could do BAL/SE conversions and some additional gain would be nice for my lower volume sources like vinyl. Despite the positive reviews, I didn't want a Freya+ for two reasons: Price and tubes. So it's the Freya S or bust.

Compared to the OG Saga (and a Goldpoint passive I also had until recently), the Freya S absolutely commits more sins of commission in the active modes. The first thing I noticed was added space and a pop to the sound. It's like the audio version of this 4:3 to widescreen transition from Superman: The Motion Picture


Things just felt bigger and better and brighter (metaphorically, not bright in FR terms). Technicolor would be another visual reference to describe the way the sound jumps out in active mode. If I were less charitable I'd say the Freya artificially sharpens attacks and squares transients to create a dynamic but potentially fatiguing sound. And indeed, the first day I had the Freya S I did feel fatigued. Schiit has a reputation for SS amps that sound tube-like but no one would confuse the Freya S for a tube preamp.

Thankfully through a combo of gear and brain burn in, this fatiguing/edgy quality dissipated after a day. Switching from 1x to 4x gain, even adjusting the volume to compensate for the higher gain, I do still hear more of an outline around certain details if that makes sense. Small details seem like they're lifted into the mix more. 4x gain also adds a pleasing bass boost that does not overtake the mids. Switching back to passive sounds transparent to the source, but there is a noticeable shrink in the soundstage, and this mode doesn't do the BAL/SE conversion correctly, so I have to be sure I'm only using passive when my signal is going through all BAL or all SE. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs.

In terms of sins of omission, I'd say the Freya S removes very little in terms of detail or texture. I don't feel the larger soundstage makes the music sound diffuse either, although perhaps the imaging isn't 100% as pinpoint as before. Either way, the sins of omission are slight and barely worth mentioning.

I haven't heard TOTL active preamps so I can't say how the Freya S compares. I think if your use case calls for the features the Freya S offers, and like me you don't want to spend $1k and deal with four tubes, the Freya S is a great deal. Not everyone will like every mode equally, but I think most people will find a mode or two that works well for their system.

FWIW, I'm generally using passive if possible or 4x for the more exciting sound. 1x is mainly for when I need the BAL/SE conversion and am not listening closely, it can play more in the background.

 

I've had a Freya + for a few weeks now and I'm looking for recommendations on tubes and which stage to add more bass. Coming from the Freya S, it's missing a bit down low. The extension seems to be there but it's lacking the punch. The Freya came with JJs all around and I added a set of Tung-Sols to the gain stage per the advice of @rlow. I like the smoothness the TSs added. Current chain is Gungnir A2 > Freya S/+ > Aegir Monos. The combination of the Aegirs and Freya+ might just be too soft but hoping I can tweak the tubes and keep it.

 

"MacBook Pro running JRiver 28->Moode using SoX to resample to 24/88->Pi2AES BNC out" - wow what an advanced trick! How do you do the output from MacBook to PI2EAS? You somehow use Raspberry Pi as USB host? Is that some Woodoo to learn?

 

Wireless via UPNP

 

I'm in the same boat as StageOne. Same gear as well, A2 Gungnir Multibit, Freya+/S, mono Aegirs. I love the space/air/sweetness I hear with the Freya +, but I miss the weight/punch the S gives to the bottom end. I added a pair of PSVane UK6SN7's I had on hand to the gain side (replacing the JJs). They provide a bit more grip/definition/texture to the bass. But I wouldn't say they impacted weight or punch in any meaningful way. I purchased some PSVane Cv181-t's which are supposedly copies of the Shuguang CV181-Z. In the gain stage these impart a neat sparkle/shimmer up top, but this is at the expense of the bottom end. They are currently in residence on the follower side. The combo is clean, airy, and lively without being harsh. But I've gone away from the bottom end I'm looking for. I need the wisdom of this group before parting with more Benjamins. Perhaps the next stop would be a ca ll to someone like Brent Jessee? VT231s or 5692s?