Schiit Jotunheim impressions

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Bill-P, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. famish99

    famish99 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I heard the Jot over the weekend and I don't feel it's a great pairing with the 6xx. Tonally it's fine but the Jot is a little bit too clinical sounding for my tastes and lacks the liveliness of a tube amp; I suspect this is due to its lack of plankton. The 6xx really should be driven by tubes or a tube hybrid.
     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I prefer the $99 DS DAC card to the multibit card inside the Jot, unless Schiit has implementated rolling changes which I would not be aware of. It's just that that the Modi Multibit "A2" standalone DAC is so much better than any of the cards.

    The Jotunheim isn't a huge jump from the Magni 3. Maybe greater sense of ease with Jot.

    Also consider Valhalla 2. Sennheiser headphones love tubes. Bass isn't as tight on Valhalla 2, but headstage is deeper and microdynamics more granular and lively. It's trade offs. Jotunheim is about ease, focus, and control, which the HD650 needs. To put it succinctly, Valhalla 2 takes advantage of what the HD650 does well. Jotunheim mitigates the HD650's weaknesses.

    THX AAA 789 from Massdrop is also a good match with HD6XX. MCTH too. Garage 1217 Project Sunrise or Horizon should be mentioned, but I feel the Garage amps might be better suited to HD600 / HD800.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  3. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    Likes Received:
    4,521
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    London, UK
    I have to say that Forza make lovely cables without any snotty attitude. What's more, Matt always stands behind his work- you will get the cable you wanted, no ifs or buts. It's refreshing.

    (..and you reminded me that I wanted another one. Gah!)
     
  4. Kirbs

    Kirbs New

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2018
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    NSW
    My mate just recommended this as well, though he has HD800's and said they could sound off even though they are high impedance. But I guess you just clarified that they aren't.

    I think I might go with the modi multibit + Valhalla 2, if I can find some sort of evidence that proves the human ear can determine multibit. Based on the whole concept, it doesn't seem likely, but placebo.

    BTW, thank you all for the input, much appreciated.
     
  5. Dzerh

    Dzerh Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    San Ramon, CA, US
    just take into account:
    1. A placebo actually helps some people, sometimes better than a medicine :)
    2. This whole hobby is about your subjective hearing and brain activity.
     
  6. psuKinger

    psuKinger Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    Hi.

    I was 6 months ago where you are now. I have a pair of HD-6XX's (and several others at this point).

    I went with the Jot and the built-in D/S DAC. I really like the all-in-one nature of it as it is, and I'm probably going to pick up a Modi MB sometime next year just to try out, and PROBABLY build a second rig with too...

    I have neither a Modi Multibit nor a Magni, so I can't give you any firsthand perspective on the road I didn't travel... What I can tell you is how much I really like what I *did* end up buying. The community here actually recommended the $100 Jot D/S DAC over the $200 MB DAC, and I followed that guidance and saved myself the $100.

    The way I'd look at it is this: either path you're looking at (a Modi Multibit+Magni or a JOT+DAC) puts you in a position to have one half of the equation "covered" with a piece of a equipment the community really likes/endorses (Modi Multibit DAC on one side, Jot amp on the other) and one piece of $100 equipment that I think most here will tell you "is fine but worth an upgrade later down the road for optimal results" (JOT DAC vs Magni amp).

    To me, the all-in-one box nature of the Jot appealling... So if there's a $100 investment to "backtrack" on (Jot DAC vs Magni amp), I'd get the Jot amp now (with the D/S DAC) and circle back for the Modi Multibit later... Unless of course you have all the coin needed to just jump into the deeper end of the pool with Jot+Modi Multibit and have no use for an all-in-one form factor. Then by all means get a JOT without DAC and a seperata Modi MB.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  7. Pillars

    Pillars Embarrassment to Colorado crew

    Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    It may also depend on what you play, how much music you listen to on the side etc. I found the DS Schiit DACs very competent for gaming and music so if that is your primary use - I'd recommend going that route. The Jot, while very enjoyable has a 2D wall of sound thing going on at times that didn't get me the results I wanted for gaming. The Magni 3 I felt performed better for positional cues, especially in games with top notch sound quality like Hunt: Showdown. If you are gaming 1st music close 2nd and want to go Schiit I would recommend the Modi 3 + Magni 3. It drives the 6XX well and saves you money to boot.

    - These are my opinions for competitive gaming. If you are not playing FPS and just jamming to Pandora playing something like wow the Jot will work nicely.
     
  8. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    dumbassville
    I read that whole LYR3 thread last nite, sounds really interesting. Will probably pick one up for a try-out after the holidays. I did end up being slightly disappointed with Jotunheim, but have still enjoyed my time with it. My biggest criticism as follows:

    I got caught up in FOTM at launch, this unit was praised heavily in the beginning, it was several weeks later before any kind of negative comments were made about it's treble glare and odd sound staging. This was admittedly my own fault.

    I was really attracted to the Jotunheim as a one piece, do it all device, nice compact and clean. Unfortunately the DAC cards are universally hated, especially the G1 4490, and really held the amp back. I almost bought a separate DAC a few times, but decided to wait a year or two and see if Schiit would release upgraded DAC's. I then again got caught up in excitement and ordered a Multi-Bit Module the day they were released. Again my own fault.. because the module is significantly worse then the Modi Multibit in various ways, probably #1 being you can't bypass the rather poor performing GEN2 USB interface. Speaking of that GEN2 interface, I did use a W4S Recovery and it made significant improvements to the clarity and resolution of the dac module, on both the OG 4490 and the Multibit card. So much so that I had my finger on the buy button for a Uptone ISO Regen more then once. In the end could not justify spending 325$ for a USB trinket when used Bifrost /w GEN 5 is available at 400$.

    Finally the PRE-OUT is poorly reviewed by many, and I honestly don't know what im missing here, because I purchased my JBL LSR 305's at the same time as the JOT and that's the only way i've ever heard them. I've even heard marv say that you should never use a headamp as a pre-out, if that is true the pre-out should not even be on the device, if you can't make it match the performance characteristics of the amp, leave it off. The jot may be a cheap device in the "hi-fi" world, but it's still a 400$ specialty device, it's not unreasonable to assume someone who would purchase a device of this performance would pair it with decent powered speakers. Combine this with the "Silent" revisions to the product, and the march forward with Magni 3, dramatically closing the gap in amp performance. I do feel it's time to sell the Jotunheim while it's still worth something. Also can't use a clean SYS with JOT (no line out), or LOKI. The product could have been alot better by adding SPDIF and LINE OUT, at least allowing you to bypass GEN2 USB, and providing a "DAC only" feature as well. I'd much rather have had unbalanced PRE out only, forgoing XLR pre-out in favor of Line OUT / SPIDF in.

    It's also slightly annoying that you must recable your headphones to get the most out of JOT, when LYR3 is more powerful without this need. Fortunately im good with a soldering Iron, and DIY so I re terminated my headphones at low cost, but considering a move to LYR3 I'll have to do it again.

    Again, this is a critical review of some of JOT's not so obvious "issues". The product overall is still excellent, particularly as an AMP only. The imbalance comes from such a great AMP, paried with mediocre PRE and DAC. It's almost a sin to use JOT with built in DAC's. I admit that Im probably asking way to much from a single device. And when I move to LYR3 I will purchase it as an AMP only, and completely ignore the Dac Module's, pair it with a Bifrost Multibit Gen 5, and a SYS/LOKI stack. SYS so that I can send the Bifrost signal straight to the JBL LSR 305's and have a volume control and a 2nd rca input, and LOKI, just for fun.

    If you like to try new gear you really got to nail the sell cycle, with MassDrop now being so compeitive, and Jotunheim has to deal with FOTM THX 789 + SDAC combo competition, it's certainly not going to get any easier to sell over time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
  9. Dzerh

    Dzerh Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2018
    Likes Received:
    425
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    San Ramon, CA, US
    Have you noticed that your feelings about Jot based mostly on other people impressions you read? Likely you would enjoy it much more if you stopped reading forums just after you bought Jot.
    And now you are going to sidegrade mostly because you feel bad about buying Jot, and not because you like sound of its replacement more. What about the sound?
     
  10. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,274
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Bird-watcher's paradise
    Given that my Jot (which I love, unlike MikeW apparently) is now only worth about $275, I would have to be awful hungry to bother selling it.
     
  11. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    dumbassville
    To be fair, most of my sound complaints my be related to only using the build in Modules. I'll have a Bifrost Multibit here in a couple weeks and look forward to hearing it with that. I've only ever heard JOT though Gen 1 4490 card and the Multibit card.

    Some things sound really great on the Multibit card, country, classical, blues... it falls flat on Pop/Rock/Electronica. When there's alot of high frequency stuff going on everything just collapses in a bad way. I think it's the Multibit card.

    With regard to the sidegrade: I don't feel bad about buying the JOT, i've owned it for 2 years and got alot of use out of it. I do regret not getting a better source for it all this time. My previous amplifier was a tube hybrid and im legitimately curious to try out the LYR3.

    I also won't need the multibit module in the JOT anymore, once the Bifrost Multibit arrives, and it's a bit of a sunk-cost at this point. So by selling my ~599$ JOT + Multibit for ~450$ used, I can almost upgrade to a brand new 499$ amp only LYR3 for nothing.

    Edit: I was warned, multiple times that the modules were trash, but I was stubborn.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  12. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    dumbassville
    Mine's worth a bit more then that with it's Multibit Module, but honestly I don't like to collect Amps, one comes in one go's out. That said, I will be trying the JOT with the Bifrost for awhile, and then comparing it side by side to the LYR3. Saying I don't like it is a bit harsh, as I actually do like it. Also, I was intentionally being critical of some of it's limitations as a long time user.
     
  13. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,274
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Bird-watcher's paradise


    While mine also has the gen1 4490 dac, (which I don't dislike as much as you apparently do, along with many others) I ordered the amp only and received the AIO by mistake, along with the Gungnir Multibit I ordered at the same time. As you might imagine, the dac very rarely gets used. It is definitely possible that what I like so much about it is at least partly a matter of it being pretty synergistic with Gungnir Multibit, at least for my tastes. And I didn't say you didn't like it, I said you apparently didn't love it, which I assumed since you were speaking of upgrading. Mea culpa.
     
  14. psuKinger

    psuKinger Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2018
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Any chance any Jotunheim owners here also happen to own an OPPO UDP-203 (UHD blu ray player, primarily, but also contains an AKM AK4458VN DAC)?

    My only (significant) headphone amp is the Jot. My two primary pairs of headphones are my Sennheiser HD-6XX's and Audeze LCD-2 Classics.

    I went with the built-in D/S (AK4490, not the 1st gen) DAC at the recommendation of this community.


    It just occurred to me that I could *try* the SE Input on my Jot by hooking it up to my UDP-203 over at the entertainment center and queue up FLAC files by accessing them over DLNA... it's hard to describe with words the difference I think I'm hearing, but I *do* think I can hear a difference when I let my OPPO act as the DAC vs. the Jot D/S. The edges/finishes of the notes seem better defined using the OPPO, particularly for higher frequencies. Does that make sense to anyone with a lot more experience and varied gear than I?

    You don't know what you're missing out on or lacking until you experience what you don't have. The Jot built-in D/S was all I knew until yesterday. So now my question is, is my UDP-203 in any way a good representation of what I might get out of my Jot if I "upgraded" to a Modi, Modi Multibit, Bifrost, or Bifrost Multibit?
     
  15. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    dumbassville
    I mentioned in an earlier post that when I first auditioned the Multbit module that I did not remember hearing some of the things im complaining about now. I'd tried several troubleshooting steps, but it looks like I missed something. Something sounded "broken" to me. Not obvious pops/clicks but more high frequency hash.

    Anyways, it looks like there's a problem with one of my USB ports on the back of my PC. The problem was hidden from me because of the W4S Recovery. Once the W4S was removed from the chain the port presented issues with pops, clicks, and drop-outs. I rebooted the PC, powered it down, and restarted the JOT and the problem still persisted on this port. I noticed a hiss sound when the JOT's volume knob was maxxed as well. These issues were half-way addressed/hidden by the W4S Recovery, making them hard to notice right away.

    I tried the JOT/Multibit on all the other ports on the PC and none of them presented this issue, no pops, no clicks, no dropouts and no hiss with a maxed volume knob. Not only did it resolve those issues, the sound is improved as well, across the board. I apologize for increasing the S/N ratio here, I debated if i wanted to admit this mistake, as it is a bit embarrassing.

    Presumably this is the type of issue USB Gen5 would nullify though galvanic isolation. Maybe i'll test that theory when I get my Bifrost Multibit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2018
  16. Pillars

    Pillars Embarrassment to Colorado crew

    Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    I don't want to offer up a pointed answer however I rather enjoyed using an external DAC with the Jot. I've heard the module and did not prefer it. Wasn't bad enough for me to rip it out but.. it didn't get much use. Will you be using USB on the Modi Multibit? If so, the interface is not as good as a Gen5 Bifrost. Optical SPDIF? Modi Multibit would be fine. If you want a neat stackable unit the Bifrost may be the way to go. As far as sound quality that is up to you to decide if it is truly worth it. Schiit has a decent return policy so the risk isn't huge. I think you may be pleasantly surprised though.
     
  17. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    dumbassville
    Both AKM implemntations.. I thought the 203 used sabre, maybe that was the higher end player. Your probably hearing the benefit of no USB connection. Eitr + Modi, or Bifrost Gen5 would have similar results. Personally, im "done" with low performing USB implementations from here on out. GEN5 or greater, and I still think there's likely room for improvement. Maybe not much though. I've noticed GEN2 to be quite sensitive to decrapifiers, and even usb cables, that alone tells me it's not great. Im not even a cable beliver, but I can't deny i've heard different results with usb cables.. even middling cables like Generic(5$) Vs Belkin Gold(20$), vs Wireworld Chroma(35$).. the chroma is all the $$ im willing to spend on a usb cable.

    Does anyone have any new details about USB GEN6? Is it confirmed to be called GEN6? I wondered because it sounds like a custom USB implementation, that will be smaller and simpler then GEN5 for implementation on lower end products to replace GEN2. This could in fact be "GEN4" and be significantly better then GEN2, but not equal to or greater than GEN5. I can't imagine having room for the parts needed for Galvanic Isolation in the lower tier products, particularly something like a Module.

    Makes you wonder if that's why Schiit jumped to Gen 5 and skipped Gen4 all along. We already had Gen1, and 2, and Gen3 only available on Yggdrasil. Leaves a spot for G4. I guess they could do GEN6 with Galvanic + New implementation, and Gen4 with new implementation only with no galvanic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2018
  18. Metro

    Metro Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,590
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    San Francisco
  19. MikeW

    MikeW Shitbag

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2017
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    dumbassville
    That's interesting, they must be working on something to replace GEN2 on value products though. I still think all the parts in GEN5 will be difficult to implement in the smaller products, and regardless of what IC they are using for usb interface, the isolation parts arnt going to change significantly. This leads me to think of some kind of lower performance USB interface and a higher performance one, out of simple necessity/physical space constraints. Unless they intend to create something that performs at or above GEN5 level without isolation, which seems rather unlikely, the benefits of isolation are too great.
     
  20. Pillars

    Pillars Embarrassment to Colorado crew

    Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    Maybe not.. The XU208 is a solid performer and is pretty small to boot so it can be done.
     

Share This Page