Schiit Multibit DAC inputs and SQ

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by rott, Dec 30, 2015.

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What is your preferred connection to your Schiit Multibit DAC?

Poll closed Dec 30, 2017.
  1. USB

    22.4%
  2. USB + decrappifier

    29.9%
  3. Coaxial RCA SPDIF

    22.4%
  4. Toslink SPDIF

    16.8%
  5. BNC SPDIF

    11.2%
  6. AES/EBU XLR

    20.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. rott

    rott Secretly hates other millenials - Friend

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    Just want to get an idea of how people are connecting to Bifrost/Gungnir Multibit/Yggdrasil (preference based on sonic performance).

    My guess is most are using USB, and I wonder if people hear a difference when using the different inputs.

    Speaking personally, I find Coaxial > Toslink > USB (no decrappifier) with my Gungnir Multibit.
     
  2. Xen

    Xen Friend

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    What if you use multiple connections?
     
  3. rott

    rott Secretly hates other millenials - Friend

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    Poll allows multiple choices now.
     
  4. beemerphile

    beemerphile Friend

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    Liking the simplicity, I spent a couple of weeks trying to convince myself that RCA or optical TOSLINK were as good as USB, but I keep coming back to the point of view that the USB with Regen is a better sound. So, there I guess I will stay. For now. (DAC = Yggdrasil)
     
  5. Xen

    Xen Friend

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    Thanks!

    So I use a 8ft certified USB2 cable straight from my Linux server. I use Monoprice "Premium" TOSLINK (no choice, soundblaster has analog or toslink) from my gaming machine. I really could not hear much of difference between the two inputs when switching between them playing the same song (DeadBeef and foobar, respectively).
     
  6. Andre Y

    Andre Y Friend

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    Toslink from a Logitech Classic Squeezebox into the Yggdrasil for now because the coax is going to another device. I might switch it eventually, but I figure the Yggdrasil's jitter rejection should be pretty good. BTW, the Toslink port on the Yggdrasil doesn't grip well with the Blue Jeans toslink cable (no final click when it locks in), and I get intermittent dropouts, so I'm using a really cheap-looking one that looks like this: http://www.core-sound.com/toslink-cables/1.php
     
  7. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    I found the AES/EBU input fed from a high-quality USB converter (DDC) to sound best with my Yggdrasil. However, the combined cost of the DDC, power supply, and digital XLR cable ended up being more expensive than the Yggdrasil itself that it simply didn't justify the upgrade in sound for me. On the other hand, I found that using a USB cable alone sounded congested and veiled.

    Right now I use a so-called USB cleaner (Waversa Systems W SmartHub) and this makes a big difference for me compared to directly plugging the Yggdrasil to my computer. I guess YMMV, depending on how electrically noisy your computer is.
     
  8. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    For $100, you can try adding this Corning USB Optical Cable extender.
    http://www.amazon.com/Corning-Self-Powered-Peripherals-Receptacle-AOC-ACS2CVA010M20/dp/B00JOJRF6K/

    Do note that this corning usb cable does not supply enough power to directly plug into with Yggdrasil's USB3 input.
    You must use the corning usb optical extender as the interconnectiing USB cable that links the source computer to Schiit Wyrd's USB input slot. Then you will use another standard usb cable for connecting from Wyrd's USB output slot to Yggdrasil.

    What's the benefit in running this setup?
    Corning optical usb allows for data transmission using optics which is provides much improved galvanic isolation(electrical noise reduction/migitation, only for usb data portion, not usb power) from the source computer. Which combined with the Schiit Wyrd to provide a even cleaner usb power to the Yggdrasil. This Corning/Wyrd setup also works with Audiobyte Hydra USB to AES converter.

    How much of a difference does this corning+wyrd makes?
    It depends. It depends alot on how electrically noisy your source computer is. Don't buy this setup and expect dramatic improvements.
    The improvements is subtle in my experience/case/setup. With the Corning+Wyrd+Yggdrasil, I feel that my music gains a notch in clarity and background blackness.

    You will also need this $0.50 USB adaptor to make it work with the Wyrd + Yggdrasil combo.
    http://www.amazon.com/HDE®-USB-Type-Male-Adapter/dp/B002B9AR8I/


    Here's another verified purchase Amazon review:
    There's a dedicated thread on CA on this corning optical usb cable:
    http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...d-electronic-devices-cable-experiences-23437/
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2015
  9. Xen

    Xen Friend

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  10. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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  11. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
  12. rott

    rott Secretly hates other millenials - Friend

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    Don't want to start a whole Sound Science thing about specific cables, not my intention.

    Aside from debates of toslink vs. coax and rates of jitter between all inputs, my experience with Gungnir Multibit has led me to believe that its performance with straight USB (PYST cable) is just a bit lacking when compared to SPDIF. Toslink may have more jitter and some people may think that the MacBook's optical output is crappier than others, but to me so far it sounds just a bit better than USB. Need to do a bit more listening and comparing. Coax from a disc transport is definitely best of the 3.

    I've been focusing on and comparing the sound of cymbals and overall depth of the track I'm listening to when comparing inputs. After using vanilla USB as a baseline, I could hear subtle improvements in cymbals (crash/ride) sounding a tad bit more authentic (less "splashy") and there was a bit more 3D-ness as I changed inputs.

    I don't think my audio memory is that great and I probably couldn't tell which input was being used if I was listening to music for a while without switching. The difference was just noticeable to me right after switching inputs and led me to my conclusion about Gungnir Multibit in my setup (balanced through Liquid Carbon).

    Not that it's a validation of any kind, but I think @purrin in the old Changstar "DAC Chart of Awesomeness" thread felt similarly about coax trumping USB with Yggdrasil. Might or might not have something to do with the quality of the transport though.

    For me, it just means I wouldn't necessarily jump on a USB Gen 3 upgrade if it was offered for the Gungnir Multibit. My impression is that the Schiit DACs perform best via SPDIF or AES. (A Regen is probably still in my future.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2016
  13. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    I guess differing equipments and differing implementation of the dac's optical and spdif input receiver chips(and various sampling rates) can result in differing jitter results.

    From my own listening experience using the Audiobyte Hydra-X(which has three outputs: coax SPDIF, toslink, AES/EBU) to connect to the Yggdrasil.

    [​IMG]

    All three input sounds subtly different from each other. Toslink is the brighter sounding and detailed of the three, with coax taking the middle, and the AES/EBU being the most warm sounding.

    The difference between using the Audiobyte Hydra-X vs Yggdrasil Gen3 USB input? More thicker sound and meatier bass on the Hydra-X. Gen3 offers a tad better holographic-ness/transparency. So pick your poison.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
  14. rott

    rott Secretly hates other millenials - Friend

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    I think using a USB-SPDIF converter adds another variable to the equation, not as straightforward (for comparison purposes) as direct SPDIF from music source. The relative quality of the converter comes into play, and from what I've read they all sound kind of different (if you believe the results of converter shootouts/comparisons).Then there's the additional variable of USB signal to the converter (using decrappifier there or not).

    I'm sure @schiit has done whatever makes sense from their perspective to optimize USB performance of their DACs, but I wonder if any manufacturer, especially in today's USB-centric DAC world would ever acknowledge that SPDIF (or AES) provides better performance with their DAC (if it were in fact the case). Probably a moot point since I don't know if that's something that can be measured, and measurements don't necessarily translate to how something will sound to different sets of ears with different gear in the whole listening chain.

    Of course, everyone should use whatever they thinks sounds best. There's no end to throwing $$$ at the last few % of improvement (or just a subtle difference). :punk:
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
  15. abernardi

    abernardi Friend

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    Well I jumped all in and bought Judeus's Yggdrasil! :punk:. I really liked my Audio-gd Ref 7.1 and have been focusing more on my analogue source lately, but I've been dying to give the Yggdrasil a serious audition and so far, while the jury is still out, I'd say I'm glad I did. I was going into the Yggdrasil via a good USB cable from my Mac Mini running Audirvana. Then the other day I tried going into a Stello U3 via USB and out to the Yggdrasil via AES/EBU. I only had a 15' mic cable, so I don't think the impedance is correct, but I did notice a very subtle improvement. The presentation seemed slightly more balanced and organic, but only very slightly. I guess I'll have to get a proper cable and see if that changes thing. But I'm mighty impressed by Schiit's USB implementation being so close to the AES/EBU. I still have more experimenting to do. This is a very high quality and intriguing DAC. The presentation is smaller and dryer than the Audio-gd, but while initially disappointed, upon reflection I think what I'm hearing is much more accurate and resolving.
     
  16. rott

    rott Secretly hates other millenials - Friend

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    Hopefully Gen 4 USB will bring things to equal (or better) footing.

    Am loving the Gungnir Multibit, btw.
     
  17. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    My preferred connections are dictated by the best outputs from my two sources: (1) Coaxial from Oppo BDP-103D with Audiopraise VanityHD103 board and (2) USB from Mac Mini.
     
  18. Tuco1965

    Tuco1965 Suffring from early onset Alzheimer's - Friend

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    All I ever use is USB. I run my Wyrd with both my Bifrost Multibit and also my Modi. BTW what an improvement using the Wyrd with my Magni Modi stack.
     
  19. Dukja

    Dukja New

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    Thank you so much for your impression of comparing Yggdrasil & Audio-GD's DAC. I also enjoy my two AGD's DAC and curious about Yggdrasil and Gungnir Multibit. I always use AGD DI to convert USB to SPDIF and hope that maybe Yggdrasil/Gungnir Multibit can let go the converter. This thread and your impression gave me many different sample points. :bow:
     
  20. abernardi

    abernardi Friend

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    So far I'm mighty impressed with the USB implementation on the Yggdrasil. Much better than the Audio-gd. I have a Ref 7.1 and Ref 5 and they both need to be fed via a USB>SPDIF converter of some kind, otherwise while very pleasant, they lose their punch and focus, IMO
     

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