Schiit Unison USB

I'm having an issue with my portable digital transport (xDuoo X10T II) feeding a USB signal into Unison. Basically if the song is too loud/compressed, I get a lot of horrible popping sounds. On the one hand, this seems to be a good objective check for how dynamic some albums are... I've actually been surprised at what clips and what doesn't. But at the end of the day, it's still horribly irritating and forces me to use an inferior transport for those albums. The issue is exclusive to the X10T II > Unison combo, as other Unison sources don't show this behavior, nor does the xDuoo with other DACs. I have to say, though, when it does work, it's the best digital I've ever heard from my home rig.

I'm not even sure where to start with this... xDuoo customer support is generally not responsive, and I think they might be planning a third revision and so focusing less on this one. Schiit will probably respond but it's doubtful that they would be able to do anything. Has anyone ever had a similar problem, and if so, what was it and how did you solve it? I tried putting a Wyrd in the chain, using another cable, using a split USB cable and providing external power for Unison (it draws so little current it might as well be self-powered), cleaning out the xDuoo's USB port... unfortunately there are no useful settings on the device, and obviously nothing like 'settings' for Unison beyond its firmware.

Just checking if anyone else has had this experience with Unison and how it could be resolved. I'm picking up either a USBridge Sig or Pi2AES at some point sooner than later, but in the meantime, I'd like to be able to listen to all of my music, even the crappily produced and heavily compressed metal, rather than being restricted to only those albums which meet some kind of dynamic range standard.

 

I agree. The more you harass people the slower it gets for you. Good things takes time in my opinion. Also, there's more to life than waiting on getting something back.

The only time I broke that rule is actually with @Michael Kelly recently, downside when you are moving apartments is making sure you get stuff sent to the correct address (can't wait for my apartment in March). If I could just wait for middle of March I would order the PI2AES and wait until it appears. Sorry @Michael Kelly for opening my wallet to you sooner.

Bigish or small companies don't have the scale like Amazon for swiftness. I think the more we evolve with technology the more we become more impatient on shit. I think it is a problem, we demand more of people for speed and instance gratification. Damn it Bezos.

 

Sounds like your bit rate is off. The X10T has a 32-bit output. Is there a way to force it to only 24 bit?

It really is only guaranteed to work on Windows 10, Mac, and many Linux devices.

 

Please note that in this upgrade they only ask you to send it in once you reach at certain point in the queue so you are not without device while waiting. I'm not sure about their service department structure but if they have fixed number of technicians then I guess they will always give preference to those who have service request due to fault in product.

 

I'm getting a LOT of extra switching when using the Yagg w/ Unison card on my macbook pro 15, 2018 (10.15.3). Windows10 works just as normal like nothing changed from the USB Gen5. Never had any issue with the USB Gen5 on MacOS before.

Macbook Pro ->USB cable -> Yagg
Desktop PC -> Same USB cable -> Yagg

I mostly use Tidal for my music library and have it set to exclusive mode to automatically take care of switch sample rate etc ...

Now on the Macbook when in exclusive mode, any time I change tracks it goes from the songs sample rate, to the Macbooks sample rate and then changes to the sample rate of the next track. This will happen even if the next song is the same sample rate as the currently playing Song. So its not that the card does not work, sounds fine. Its just that any time a song changes, i hear the Yagg clicking relays around 2~3 times. Also can hang a lot when getting audio first routed to the Yagg.

I also notice in the mist of all the switch when playing song via tidal on MacOS it also sets my default desktop audio for the Yagg from 24-48 to 32-192.

Any other Mac users seeing anything similar? Any ideas on what maybe to try?

 

Try changing the settings on your player to 24/192 maximum OR Tidal to Lossless. The Schitt tops out at 24/192

 

Thanks y'all, that would definitely be a reasonable cause for the issue. I'm not sure if there is a way to force 24bit, there's not much in the settings. I will ask xDuoo but they are not the most responsive company...

edit: Actually, I also have a Grace SDAC at work with a maximum of 24/96, and the xDuoo does not have an issue playing loud, poorly produced music at all. The same songs that are half popping noises on Unison are perfectly clean on the SDAC.

Does anyone have any other ideas? Or maybe there is just something special about Unison (I know there is a lot that's special about Unison) that makes for a bad listening experience with a 32-bit output?

 

That is a reasonable explanation, but I still wonder if anyone is actually monitoring and updating the queue. I placed my order on 2-5, and according to their Upgrade System my order has moved up one slot since while the backend has increased by 24. I question whether this has any real value. I don't mind waiting, but at this point their "System" seems more like a distraction than a real service. Oh, well.

 

Actually, the upgrade queue is handled by production personnel. If you're wondering about your place in line, or how fast things are moving, best to email [email protected] and they can let you know what's happening. It's possible we're simply busy.

Also, yes, the entire point of the queue is that we let you know when we are ready for you to send the product in, to minimize the time in the shop.

 

Well after trouble shooting, it seems like how Tidal handles exclusive mode with the Unison USB card on Mac OS is my issue. Slam the card to 32-bit and drives the dac crazy when switch track.

Playing Tidal via Roon in exclusive mode on MacOS works fine ...

Bug report submitted to Tidal.

 

unfortunately, schiit has acknowledged that their web site is completely manual -- nothing is integrated. so the queue info is only updated when someone physically does it.

 

installed unison usb board over the weekend -- absolute piece of cake to do. unfortunately, i moved my entire system to a different room so can't identify any differences . . . .

 

tl;dr Unison USB is damn good, I am impressed. Gen 5 is god awful in comparison.

Was using a Modi Mulitbit while I was figuring out what DAC to pair with Valhalla 2/HD650. My Modi would either cut the audio in 10 second intervals or could sound super distorted in the left channel. Anytime I touched the chassis it gave me a huge shock. Don't know WTF it is with my luck buying used Schiit gear lately.

I had Yggdrasil still sitting in a box after a buyer cancelled the sale and I needed a working DAC in the interim. Unison dropped around the time my Modi crapped out so I was curious what Schiit's proprietary USB implementation was like.

Trying to keep this an apples-to-apples comparison. So Valhalla 2/HD650/Yggdrasil Gen5 compared to Valhalla 2/HD650/Yggdrasil Unison. Oh and I do use a Wyrd, but that's less of an audio nervosa thing and more so I've had faulty PC PSU's take out external USB components. So if something wants to explode, rather it be that than a $2k DAC.

Reviewing the notes I had from Gen 5, here's the improvements with Unison:

+ No more bass hardness
+ No more one note bass; much more definition and differentiation. (Still HD650 crummy bass of course, but there's a big difference)
+ Improved resolution, hearing more low information that sustains notes, fine microdetails and subtle changes in lower volumes.This all was muted with Gen 5.
+ More clarity with removing the thicker grey haze from Gen 5.
+ Removes a lot of that grey soupy, lo-fi cassette tape sound.
+ More focus and control, still has that slightest veil over the single ended connections used to Valhalla 2. Can't blame Unison for that.
+ No more dynamic roundness or slight haze from Eitr.
+ Takes away an etched, thin sound from Gen 5.
+ Less digital sounding, however still has the smallest hint of that USB sound.

Negatives:

- Some bloominess in the overall sound
- Tendency towards sounding duller, softer...but I think this is more of a Yggdrasil problem than Unison.

^ the impressions above are trying to remove the DAC sound out of the equation. It's still a Yggdrasil and the problems I had originally with it are still there.

Compared to the XMOS USB in Convert-2 is much more difficult, but I'd say both share the lack of digitus. Someone here told me I'd love Unison after how impressed I was with Convert-2's lack of digital sounding USB, and I have to agree. Unison doesn't necessarily sound "better", it's more different. They both still sound like USB inputs. To be honest, I don't know how Schiit could improve upon Unison, since I gotta think they've reached the limits of what that protocol can do.

Now how does Unison stack up to my ancient 27-lb tank Onkyo nearly-dead CD transport and RedNet D16? It doesn't sound as majestic as the Onkyo nor as liquid, fast and laser sharp as the RedNet. Unison sounds more tube-like in comparison to these sources. Now if I didn't have these two sources, I could live with Unison USB but in a different DAC.

But seriously Unison took me by surprise. The mixed reception on SBAF towards Unison gave me pause but I'm impressed.

Still searching for a DAC to complement the Valhalla 2/HD650 though. Actually wish I could find a headphone with the clarity of my studio monitors...

 

I still think it is unfair to compare a USB input to a top shelf transport. The fact that we are even having this discussion or comparison. I think Marv came to the same conclusion. I would rather see it compared to a run of the mill transport.

After being without mine for awhile and having to go back to USB ver. 2 in my Bifrost Multibit, tons more clarity and focus. Much more agile and details for days.

Compared to my Pi with HiFi Digi+ with S/PDIF, closer, but the Unison seemed to have more space between Instruments, sound wider, and more polite. The Digi+ seemed to have more "oomph" at first, but further listening and comparisons revealed loss of details and more fuzziness in the low end especially.

And again, no difference between USB output on my Windows 10 laptop or my Pi.

I still can't believe I prefer USB now. This is a game changer.

 

@rtaylor76 I agree the comparison is unfair, its why I didn't bother with much of a comparison to RedNet/good Onkyo CD transport I have. It's better to see how it compares with other USB implementations.

Now a run of the mill transport like the Onkyo C-3070? Yeah it shits all over it. Not even close. It's great it sounds this good cause it means less interest in getting another spinner. Still would like to try a Pioneer LaserDisc player if one comes up locally.

I have some other thoughts about RedNet compared to XMOS USB in the Convert-2, but I'll refrain. Honestly the jump in performance from Gen 5 to Unison USB was much bigger than XMOS USB to RedNet in the Convert-2. The latter maybe more 5-10% more gain; I think I've squeezed out every drop of performance I can out of the DAC now. It's still an audible improvement to be sure, it has serious laser precision, amazing fluidity, but it does reveal the weaknesses and limitations of the Convert-2.

But yeah Unison is awesome for USB. I need to hear it used in a different DAC as I'd imagine might even edge out the XMOS USB.

Also stability is great. Doesn't skip intros that the XMOS USB sometimes had a tendency to do. No interruptions with gapless playback.

Now if Schiit can do their own custom D-A conversion as well as they did USB...

 

Do we have any impressions of gen5 vs unison using a usb streamer( such as sms200 or microrendu)? I think it'd be a fairer comparison

 

Yep I compared my Sotm SMS-200Ultra (had a Microrendu at the time as well) on Unison to the Gen5 card during the Unison Beta test. Here’s a couple quotes from my impressions:

 

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.

 

Just ordered a newer Yggdrasil GS that, according to the Schiit rep, now comes with the Unison card installed. Not at all sure that this rep knows his onions given the GS writeup on the Schiit site, but we shall see. Encouraged by the positive reports here of the Unison board improvements so will upgrade if necessary.

 

No Unison USB in Yggdrasil GS. Who did you talk to?