Schiit Vidar Impression Thread - UPDATED WITH REVIEW (CHECK FIRST POST)

Discussion in 'Power Amps' started by Rotijon, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I'd argue that's not burn-in. That's just aging.
     
  2. Puma Cat

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    Call it what you will, but respectfully disagree. According to the electrical engineer, Dan Babineau, who does audio capacitor design and manufacturing as his profession, and founded Running Springs Audio and RTI Electronics and manufactured the Teflon capacitors for Audio Research, said that using an electron microscope, that you could see the actual tracks of the electrons produced in the Teflon caps as they burned-in.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  3. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    That's nice. Not sure what that has to do with burn-in vs aging though.

    Let's be pragmatic about this. If it takes a few weeks to reach some kind of stability or equilibrium due to usage, that's burn in. If it takes years, that's aging.

    That's why I laugh when the AGD fanboys discount any non-favorable evaluation of their gear if you haven't "burned it in" for at least 250, preferably 500, hours. It basically means that - to the average Joe who isn't going to waste 2 to 3 solid weeks to burn it in - their product will finally sound stable right around the time their warranty expires.

    It's a matter of expectations. I expect a product to settle in after a few weeks of use, then it will sound The same for a long time... That's burn in. -VS- Over the next few years the product will slightly change how things sound... Aging.

    Why does this matter to me? For the same reason I despise all snake oil terms and products. It coerces people into believing something in a deceptive manner.
     
  4. Puma Cat

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    Sorry, not familiiar with the term "AGD"?

    My experience is that there are different durations required for the different types of dielectric materials used for capacitors to "burn in", "age" or "form", whatever you would like to call it; polyester caps burn in faster than polypropylene caps which burn in faster that Teflon. From this, there appears to be an correlation with the dielectric potential of a cap vs. burn-in time, and this was in essence the comment I was mentioning to msommers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The only way to test this out is using a stable reference to compare. I've noted that with some gear, burning it in over time or leaving it on for a period of time makes it sound worse.

    FWIW, based in my experience, I don't think burn-in is going go help with the Vidar in the areas that I want it to.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  6. emusic2000

    emusic2000 New

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    How would one Vidar sound with speakers with the following specs... or should I consider other amps?

    Sensitivity: 86 dB

    RMS Output Power: 120 W

    Impedance:6 Ohm
     
  7. Puma Cat

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    Should sound and work just fine and will provide plenty of power to drive your speaker to very loud levels w/o clipping. I've read from Jason that Vidar is very conservatively rated and very stable over a range of impendance loads. FWIW, I can drive big 4 ohm Dynaudios floor standers with 86 dB efficiency with a 70 Wpc tube power amp to very loud levels (louder than I would want to listen to), and a tube amp power output rated for 8 ohms does not double power with a 4 ohm speaker load like a SS amp does.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  8. Gustavo

    Gustavo New

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    From a Telarc, is challenger, of course this is a simple representation limited by the poor mobile device mics! Hope there isn't a problem sharing this here, if so, I understand! Regards!
     
  9. pedalhead

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    Had a session with a couple of Vidars alongside my Conrad Johnson Premier 11 at home this evening. Preamp was Freya with Sylvania chrome tops, speakers Audio Physic Tempo 25.

    Standout feature of Vidar is the bass. Deep, tight, impactful, really impressive. I'd expect SS to beat tubes on bass but Vidar exceeded expectations on this. Soundstage was decent, fairly wide, but CJ had more depth. Vidar seemed pretty straightforward elsewhere, capable & decent sounding, though not the last word in detail resolution. CJ has that great staging and a delicate detail rendition, whilst being particularly good at the low volume level I usually listen (my wife isn't into loud music!). CJ has holy grail '60s Tung Sols, which helps.

    If I listened at high volume levels, I'd definitely be tempted to pick up a Vidar for the gorgeous bass. I'd be prepared to give up the CJ's strengths for that, and they break down a bit at high volume anyway.

    We also tried two Vidars in mono, and confirmed that you don't want to do this with 4 ohm speakers. Vidars started making their own music. I can't see too many scenarios where one Vidar would be insufficient tbh.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Can you biamp and drive the top end of your speakers with a good tube amp and the bottom end with Vidar? That's what I plan on doing with the Afficionado.

    Glad to see others confirm what I was hearing in the bass. True-High-End™ bass, but from mids on up, good, but not True-High-End™
     
  11. pedalhead

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    My speakers aren't biampable, but that would be super cool if the timing was aligned between tubes and SS... Not sure it typically would be though?

    Yes I heard the same you did. Bass is really stellar with Vidar. Also, Schiit clearly sorted the heat issues as they both remained not much above room temperature.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  12. hifiandrun

    hifiandrun Almost "Made"

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    I am also very interested in the bi-amp question. Many speakers are "mandatory" to be bi-wired or to be bi-ampped to show there potential. B&W speakers being one of those brands. In that case, two RCA output on Freya (for example) of each channel will be used and the Vidars are not working as dual-mono with balanced input. I wonder how much bi-amp would improve the mids and highs. Is that the requirement of two Vidars, 4 of RCA interconnects, and 4 decent speaker cables holding off the evaluation?
     
  13. Puma Cat

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    Really good idea....
    Nice write-up, Pedalhead, thank you. ;) I really found that of interest. Yep, that is one of the real strengths a good SS amp: they do bass really well. The newer gen C-J, ART, and VAC tube amps have gotten notably better, but a top-flight SS amp will still likely outperform tube power amps in this regard, unless we're talking C-J ART or ART REF monoblocks, etc. And C-J SS power amps have been exceptional at this, too. I used to have the near-legendary C-J Premier 350 (f*cking AMAZING SS amp) and it had very impressive bass with respect to power, articulation,detail, transient response, musicality, etc. It had unbelievable "dynamic slam" and was also more transparent than my tube LP-70S, but it couldn't match the LP-70S for magic in the mids and highs. Virtually all component designs reflect a series of tradeoffs. I sold the Pr350 to a friend, but I sure regret it now; it was a veritable monster, and it could output current FAST to a pair of loudspeakers like nobody's business; perfect match for my Dynaudios. One of the finest SS amps I've ever heard, along with Burmester and Technical Brain amps.

    Back on topic, though, and based on listening to Gustavo's video, it really sounds like Vidar's an excellent amplifier and for $679, it must provide a completely off-the-charts value proposition. True to Schiit's mission statement, once again.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  14. Puma Cat

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    Thank you, Gustavo, for putting that up. I found it very informative and interesting; just a question; what was doing the D/A converison? Was it Bifrost or the Sony?
     
  15. Aklegal

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    Not limited to "AGD fanboys" or whatever, the "theory of burn-in" has been around alot longer and has been applied from everything from RCA cables, Shakti Stones to magical Bybee bullets.

    After nearly a dozen speakers, amps, dacs, headphones, upgraded speaker crossover etc my experience is this:

    Speaker drivers/ headphone drivers will loosen over time causing some change but not dramatic.
    SS Amps will sound like what they are going to sound like after about a day of warm up.
    Tube amps will continually sound worse or better depending on your taste as the tubes wear out.
    Speaker crossovers settle in after about a hour. I have listened to this happen 3 times after installing new crossovers.
    Interconnects - lol.

    If you don't like what your amp, speaker, headphone etc sounds like after the first day then it is best to move on.
     
  16. Aklegal

    Aklegal Friend

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    Yeah, but there may be gain, input sensitivity, frequency imbalance and impedance issues aplenty. The speaker company Emerald Physics used to sell their speakers with an active crossover and would demonstrate their speakers using Wyred 4 Sound amps for the low end and tube amps or class A or A/B amps for the top end.

    A cheaper way may be to use inline attenuators between the preamp and the amp with the most gain.
     
  17. Gustavo

    Gustavo New

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    Originally I use the Sony, is a delta sigma DAC like the 90% on the market DSD and PCM, very capable, so in this case I connect the Sony as a player with the Bifrost Delta Sigma, the Bifrost owner is a friend of mine, he had the Gungnir too and he has the plan to upgrade both to multibit! In my opinion the Bifrost VS Sony HAP-S1 DAC are very similar, is a draw, maybe the Sony has more resolution, but the Bifrost is more liquid! I have several videos, if you want I can share here! Regards.
     
  18. Gustavo

    Gustavo New

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    With all the respect that you deserve, I somehow agree with you, but I still dare to say that, in this case it depend with the match you could have Vidar VS Speakers! And I don't mean that Vidar is the best of the world!
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  19. Puma Cat

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    Thanks, Gustavo. So, you were simply using the Sony to serve/stream files out to Bifrost for D/A conversion? If you have other videos, please send me the links via PM, I don't want to derail this thread with interesting, but off-topic content.
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It's really not that hard. Just pad down tube amp (may not even be necessary as long as there is no clipping) into an active crossover. I did it here years ago. EC2A3mk4 on top and Crest CA2 on bottom. Cicada driver XO was passive. Bass driver XO was active, cheapo DCX2496, fed by EC2A3mk4 and feeding Crest CA2 to woofers.

    [​IMG]

    I am actually running the Oris horns and woofer box similiarly at home right now, but passive all the way around. Saga feeds JLH 69 amp on top for Lowther DX3 / Oris and Vidar on bottom for Beyma woofers in a box.
     

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