Schiity rumors (and SBAF talks about McDonald's)

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by PacoTaco, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    Gah, this topic keeps making me just want to get the Yggdrasil + Raggy (or IHA-1) instead of going with teh Gungnir Multibit + Kenzei Encore alternative...or just getting the Gungnir Multibit to save some money.

    My thought process keeps leaning towards "May as well get the best DAC under ten grand and the best solid state I can instead of going into Tube amps." Plus, that Yggdrasil analog upgrade rumor should be "out" by February I hope.
     
  2. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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  3. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    The upgrade is in Yggdrasil, Gungnir Multibit, and Bifrost Multibit.
     
  4. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    I was assuming it was still "rumor" territory, but I guess this confirms said rumors.
     
  5. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

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    What does that upgrade entail? Pivot point analog stage?
     
  6. winders

    winders Know-it-all boomer, prob racist

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    What upgrade? You guys are living on rumors......
     
  7. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    I'm not going to spill the beans but @baldr does mention it in the linked post and confirms what I said in a following post.

    Rest assured, your gear is not obsolete but if you were maybe wanting to upgrade to a Yggdrasil from Gungnir Multibit consider buying new.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I had assumed aforementioned software upgrades and minor parts substitutions as part of running changes. I would be uncomfortable arriving to any conclusions without confirmation. Don't want people PMing me and saying: WTF Marv. I thought you SBAF guys said Bifrost had super analog boards that fixed the blackness.

    Seriously, shit like that happens.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
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  9. Neal

    Neal Facebook Friend

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    Does upgrading from Bifrost 4490 to Bifrost Multibit get you this upgrade? Or is it only for brand new units?
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Only if you were one of the VIPs that received from Schiit the boxes marked TOP SECRET at RMAF.
     
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  11. drgumbybrain

    drgumbybrain Science Nut

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  12. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    Don’t stop enjoying your DACs because there may or may not be revisions due to EOL components etc. Jason and Mike have made it pretty clear that the silent revisions are very minor and any major revisions will in time be offered as an upgrade. This is a strength of the Schiit lineup. Stop treating it like a weakness.
     
  13. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    I may be missing something, but I don't see any confirmation of what you're all blathering on about in Mike's post linked above.

    Let's analyze:

    "I admit it, yeah, the rumors of modification are true. Over a year ago, we implemented a software modification for the notch which used to be visible at -90db waveforms on all multibit DACs. This modification had a user at another forum [zonto: Computer Audiophile] in a state of high dudgeon that we could claim our units were high end with such a glaring anomaly. Of course he championed a much more expensive competing unit over and over again which was free of such pox. @atomicbob did not seem to be unduly concerned, measurements champ that he is. I didn't either, completely unconcerned about an inaudible flaw. I corrected it with software tweaks and we have a newly clean -90db measurement.

    You may wonder, why didn't we announce it? Well, it goes like this: on our upgradable DACs, we from time to time make running changes, such as the software change above. A few are are compelled, due to parts end of life. The majority, however, are minor tweaks we make for the purpose of improvement. It makes little sense to call an Yggdrasil back for a minor upgrade where $10-$15 worth of upgrades are involved, either for the client or ourselves. So we remain muzzled and do the upgrades when the units come back for more major upgrades.

    On major upgrades, such as one which would involve new analog, digi, or input boards, we would implement the changes and let them sit several months to a year before announcing anything. This is so they have time to settle. This is the biggest reason to avoid purchasing a used Yggdrasil. Not that I am attempting anything punative – it is just a system that works reliably, and is fairest on an hourly basis in client cost.

    Exceptions are when we offer an accross the line upgrade such as the Gen V USB which pretty much fixes USB, at least until we come out with our own chipset implementation, which will take a year or two. Oops – never mind. These upgrades are inexpensive and effect huge change. So we offer them.

    Are we going to offer analog upgrades? Is Apple going to upgrade their phones? Of course. The difference is that we will conceal our upgrades for some period of time before we offer them."

    From this, we learn that:
    • there was a software modification "fixing" a notch "issue" in Schiit's multibit DACs;
    • this was not announced, meaning it was a silent revision;
    • major upgrades, if and when they occur, are also made silently before they are announced;
    • Schiit plans to release their own chipset implementation related to USB, hopefully within a year or two; and
    • there will be an analog upgrade to some product(s) in the future.
    From this, we do not learn that:
    • there is an analog board upgrade to Yggdrasil in the works;
    • such an upgrade would be out next spring; or
    • that the purported upgrade would also apply to the Bifrost Multibit and/or Gungnir Multibit.
    Please slow down for a second and read. If someone can point me to another post I'm missing, I'm happy to revise and eat crow. If you're posting about things someone told you in private, then shut up and show you deserve the trust that was placed in you. If @schiit confirms anything publicly, then great. As an Yggdrasil owner, I hope they continue to improve the product, and upgradeability is one reason I bought it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  14. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    I thought it was pretty clear as the words are there. And all I suggested, as Mike already did, was to consider buying new rather than used. :cool:
     
  15. winders

    winders Know-it-all boomer, prob racist

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    All Mike confirmed in his post is that upgrades happen without the public knowing and that one upgrade that did happen was the software upgrade to get rid of the "notch" at the crossover point at -90dB.
     
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  16. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    It was also confirmed that they add the upgrades to new products months ahead of time as well before they release said upgrades as the "add-ins" for existing products. The rumor has been around for months, and it got stronger during RMAF for a reason. I'm not going to be able to buy a Yggdrasil or a Gungnir Multibit until February, so this situation just makes me pretty happy that I'm not.
     
  17. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    I'm repeating this from another thread, but I'll add some more detail so hopefully this doesn't contribute to the noise. For people who want the short summary, here it is: things change, and you deal with them.

    What do I mean by that? I mean that everyone likes to think that every single device coming off of a modern production line will be 100% the same, and that what's inside of the product will never ever change.

    That's risible.

    In the case of Magni 2 alone, the output devices we used went obsolete twice. In three years. Once, we had to change the way the outputs were biased to address thermal issues, which counts as a pretty significant change. Did we announce any of those changes? Of course not. Are the new ones better than the old ones, or vice-versa? No clue. They all met the specs we set for them, and everyone who bought one got one that met or exceeded those specs.

    And, note the "met or exceeded." In every production run, the tolerance stack will dictate that some products will perform a bit better, and some will perform a bit worse. This is one of the many reasons we're really conservative when it comes to specifications. Which one did you get? The better one, or the worse one? Again, no clue. I can say it certainly met our specs, though.

    So, welcome to the real world. We design the best product we have from the best components we can find (there's a whole chapter on choosing active devices out there somewhere), and hope those components stay available and don't have any, ah, unexpected events. We have no control over where the products are made or if they remain an active product, so sometimes we have to deal with changes. There are certain parts on the BOMs (usually stuff like thin-film resistors and certain types of capacitors) that have to be reviewed with Mike or I if things change, and there are certain parts that are single-source, and there are certain parts that are specified grade, but there are lots of parts that can be subbed. And that happens, because waiting 6 months for a Magni 3 would really suck.

    I fully expect many to be up in arms about how "sloppy" we are, and how "uncaring" we seem, but this is reality. This is how production works everywhere, for every product, from every company, regardless of cost. Any manufacturer that says different is lying.
     
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  18. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    Yeesh, sounds like hard (and thankless) work. Keep it up :)
     
  19. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    McDonald's burgers are all the same:rolleyes: with the same ketchup...Sheesh get it together Schiit.
     
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  20. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    I don't think the hub-bub in here was saying anything negative about you guys doing this - most of us are understanding of that. The negativity was more directed towards "the rumor that the analog upgrade was already in the Gungnir Multibit/Yggdrasil/Bifrost Multibit" was being treated as fact. I mean, it sucks for someone who bought a product a long time ago for these kinds of changes, but that's what consumers have to accept when they're early adopters. Hell, just ask the people who bought the AMD Vega GPUs. Poor guys.

    I'm happier that you make the changes to improve the product than just letting it go and being done with it until the next upgrade/product comes out.
     

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