Senneheiser HD660S Impressions

I'll see how fast we can get one of these on a measurement rig.

Also - S prolly stands fur schwarz. Too bad they don't name them HD660Sch so we don't have to guess.

 

We beat ourselves up enough, we don't need help...

 

Thanks for the links, I accidentally scrolled down (PgDn is very close to the Shift key on this laptop) and started reading, it's incredible what Jude's measurements have done to the people there and it really makes me wonder how incredibly influenced peoples impressions are by things like this, suddenly people claim the bass sounds 'less distorted' and cite his measurements as validation for it. Deja Vu with people saying they are irritated by the distortion in the HD800S ever since Tyll published his article regarding it.. Ironically they're still claiming the bass is more extended when the measurements they love to twist to fit their agendas disagree with their claims.

 

My entry point to the various forums I frequent every day is either subscribed threads for the huge ones, or unread posts where that, on a day to day basis is manageable. Thus, I noticed the new thread.

This is my SBAF bookmark: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?find-new/posts

 

I believe it was mentioned in the speculation thread, but the “S” apparently stands for Symmetrisch which is a German word for what we would call Balanced. It refers to the balanced cable that comes with the HD660S (same reason the HD800S has the “S” in the name).

 

Hoping to see this added to the Ref 4 profile list as well.

 

Some say you can never have enough Clamping Force but I find their albums inconsistent. Their sophomore effort "Vice Grip" was pretty tight, but their third album "Night and All" was a bit weak in spots.

 

The driver enclosure itself looks nigh identical to the one in the HD700.

It'd be interesting to see what putting the 660S driver into the 700 did to the sound. Those things were comfortable dammit.

Edit: here's a picture I found of the 700 enclosure, for comparison.
http://i.imgur.com/b5dIMS6.jpg

 

Makes me wonder what would happen if someone managed to fit HD800 drivers into HD6xx cups...

Getting back on topic: @Ray, if I may ask, which mods did you perform to your HD650? The full HD650M/KISS, or were there any you left out? I only remember seeing that you removed the rear foam and spider.

 

I went home for lunch to listen to these. Please consider them meet impressions on my own rig, as I had less than 30 minutes to listen. Normally I would wait a couple days but I want to add some signal to a thread that is somehow already noise, and as getting them early in the shipping game I feel obligated to say something.

Source: Gungnir Multibit > ZDS (12ohm OI) > Headphones
HD650: 1 year old, used occasionally, Dynamat and foam mod (done by @Merrick)
HD660S: straight out of the box

-Build is very similar, as is feeling on the head. I have a smaller head with short hair and is snug but not tight (7 1/4" hat)
- Matte Black is nice, cable seems the same as 650.
- There's some differences hiding in here, but it is clearly a minor change to an already existing and successful headphone. Less different than 600/650, more on the order of 800/800s in difference (not that the changes to 800S are in the same vain)

-660S has less bloom in the midbass, which leads to a bit of a leaner and tighter presentation, but the characteristic midbass presence and warmth is absolutely still there
- A little bit more "clean" or "clear" midrange, especially in voices, could be a direct result of above midbass observation. Teasing out exactly what this is I think may be the decider for many.
- Staging too similar to ascertain any differences on a short listen
-660S is subjectively more efficient, not by a large margin though. About half of an hour less on ZDS knob. I want to test how these work on mobile devices in the future, as using them from a phone or video game controller could be nice for utility.

 

I'm going to assume a lot of you already have HD650. So how about from the point of view of someone that has neither and wants to add a senn to their collection. Would it be worth going for the 660s or wait for a good deal on the HD650/6xx??

 

I don't think that question is really going to be too different than someone who has a HD650 and is making the choice to go 660S, or has both and needs to decide which to keep. Everyone's impressions are super early, basically by definition of them just shipping in the US on Wednesday, so I think it's really early to make any absolute statements.

With that being said, myself and others have all said they are close in some manner, and there's going to be a TON of sub $200 HD650/6xx's hitting the market which is less than half the price of a new 660S. That's one hell of a bargain in this hobby, where bargains are increasingly hard to come by. Unless you know a small change in bass tightness (which seems to be a common description and I feel good about saying it is true on a short listen) or a small bump in efficiency is paramount, trying a 650/6xx at that price is a good and low risk proposition.

As always, time will tell

 

For those who have a 660S and another 580/6xx phone, are the drivers interchangeable? Can a 660S driver be mounted in a 650 frame? I'm wondering if I'll be able to put together a poor-man's 660S the way I did with my current 650 drivers in a 580 frame.

 

At the very least you'll be able to buy the 660S capsules and stick them on your existing headband/grille/pads.

Pic below is how the replacement capsules(incl drivers) for HD600/HD650 are sold (and most likely the HD660S), you'll miss out on the driver matching with a new pair though, but Marv's older measurements of the HD6XX vs HD650 suggest they'd be very close to each other regardless.

 

Finally, got mine. Whew...it was almost a case of the UPS Ninja evades me again. Lucky for me, my wife took in the package. She gave me the stink eye for it though because she has a broken foot and had to hop up and down the stairs to retrieve the package, but all is well with hd660 in hand. Well, here are a few quick thoughts.

*They look a little nicer than I expected. The matte black paint kinda looks like darth vaders underwear or something. Pretty badass though for sure.

*The new pads give a good bit more spaciousness than I'd imagined. Very roomy and I like it. I'll have to try them on the 650 and see what that yields.

*Why wouldn't they make the balanced 4.4 mm cable a bit shorter? These are more efficient and subject to portable use, right?. More and more players are using the balance 4.4 connector. Who the f**k wants to deal with a 10 ft. portable cable?

*Sound: they need some break in before making proclamations. But so far, they sound a lot like the 650 with "cleaner" mids (not sure this is a good thing...yet) and about 2-3 db more bass. Actually if you "tilt" the mid bass hump down and the sub up this would be the effect that you get. It's not day and night dramatically different but pretty obvious.

Are they "better" than the 650? Do they replace the 650?

Again, I'm not sure yet. The drivers and pads need break in time to do a fair comparison to my stock 650. I'm not sure that I like the lower impedance either. It's about 2.5 clicks difference on my Bottlehead SEX between 660/650. If I wasn't an audio junkie who HAD to have these, I would suggest getting 6xx and doing mods, which would most likely make them pretty similar sounding for half the money. More to come....

 

More spacious pads is the most exciting thing about these headphones. My ears have always touched the top and bottom inside.

 

I just remembered, when I bought my HD650 drivers they came already installed in frames (the left/right baffle/earcup assemblies.) And I also installed 650 grills. So I'm only using the headband from the 580's, really. And the pads, but I thought the earpads were identical.

If the HD660S drivers are sold the same way, I can't imagine why they wouldn't sound as they should, provided you also use HD660S earpads.

 

Impressions after overnight burn in and 3 hours head time.

What works:

*The looks. This is of course subjective but I've wanted a matte black paint job since I first bought the 650. The grills are slightly more transparent exposing the sexy driver (yes, they are sexy). The 6xx never really did it for me with the dark blue paint. And the 6xx were always squeaky when rotating the cups. The 660 is buttery smooth in terms of build quality.

*The sound. The 660 does not sound night and day better than the 650. But the changes are appreciable and they take the 650 formula and make it better. There is more bass and it's cleaner=win, win in my book. No need for mods. The 660 sounds "right" without doing a thing to it. No dynamat, no pad rolling and no EQ. Just plug them in and enjoy. I like that.

On the Fence:

*Price. This is a tough one. And it will come down to the individual. Overall, I feel that the price for someone not owning a 6x0 is questionable given the MD 6xx and used 650 prices. Having said that, even though I already own a 650, I'm really liking the 660 and glad to own it.

What stinks:

*The cable. I was hoping for a cable upgrade with this one. I would have gladly taken an upgraded cable over the stock 650 cable with an extra Pentacon cable. I just don't see that many people with a need for the 4.4 mm cable. A shorter 3.5 mm cable would have made much more sense for this lower impedance headphone. Maybe we'll see more amps in the future with 4.4 connectors...looking you @schiit.

*Speaking of lower impedance, I don't like the decision here. Who really want to run the 660 from a phone or DAP? This is a high end desktop headphone IMO. Hell, I would have rather Senn gone the other direction and made a 600 ohm version, even harder to drive but with some sonic improvements.

*Listening to the 660 may f**k up your enjoyment of your beloved 650, so be warned. Switching back to the 650 just doesn't sound right anymore.

Next up, pad rolling and swapping. How do the new 660 pads sound on the 650 and vice versa?

 

Senn was unable to cancel my order in time (due to their convoluted online system no doubt - I had confirmation of it being backordered followed by confirmation of the cancellation followed by confirmation of shipping - and I'm not even a practicing Catholic). Ahywho I suppose it will be interesting to do a quick A/B/C with the AFO and Sine - totally different beasts but the AFO is overhead-open so that is similar and the Sine is about the same price.