Sennheiser HD600 Measurements 2019

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Feb 24, 2019.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    After all this time, we've never had a good complete set of HD600 measurements. So now it's time, considering the recent work on compensations for the MiniDSP rig. I figured this would also be a good test case for the following reasons:
    1. The SBAF compensations for the MiniDSP were arrived at using 10-12 headphones, but the HD600 was never one of these. This would be a good test case for the compensations.
    2. The flat plate coupler (with no ear) results, the "V2" measurements, never did a good job differentiating the Sennheiser headphones. (HD600, 650, 580, 660S, 58X, etc.)
    3. We should expect a slight 3kHz bump for the HD600, given that @Hands and @Serious were instrumental in providing feedback.
    HD600 Frequency Response (EARS with SBAF compensation)
    Flat-line across is perceptual neutral
    (Revised 2/26/2019)
    HD600 FR EARS SBAF.png

    The results are actually quite interesting. Quite a few people have felt that the HD600, although close enough to neutral, was slightly on the bright side. We see a little broad bump at 3kHz which is expected. There are also small narrow peaks at 5kHz and 8.5kHz. These peaks could be dependent upon the ear. Let's take a look at the foam surface flat-plate coupler measurements for the HD600 to check from another angle.

    HD600 Frequency Response - Flat Plate "V2" Coupler
    HD600 flat plate FR.png

    It should appear that some of the elements, the 5kHz and 8kHz peaks are there, but not quite as sharp or elevated. The 3kHz bump in the EARs doesn't exist at all. This is expected given pack of pinna which will amplify the 2kHz region.

    For comparison, here is the Sennheiser HD58X.
    (Revised 2/26/2019)
    HD58X FR EARS SBAF.png

    This looks about right. I know one of @CEE TEE's goals at Massdrop was to get better extension out of the HD58X. I'm sure many of you have noted the 5kHz measurement peak with the various HD58X measurements out there including Jude's.

    Jude HD58X.png

    The thing is, I don't think it's as present as shown above. The MiniDSP EARS results are more reflective of what I think most of with the HD58X hear. Now wouldn't it be interesting if Massdrop could get Sennheiser to make a headphone with the HD58X response with the more resolving 300-ohm driver of the HD600? Maybe we should start a petition on it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  2. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    upload_2019-2-24_23-46-33.png

    Wow, this confirms BOTH hd600 consistency and EARS consistency. lol
    5k peaks were not very evident with my result though.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    The slight 8kHz makes all the more sense now though, given how many people have commented on the HD600 being bright.
     
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  4. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Friend

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    Just for the record, HERE is another 2019 pair measured. Indeed HD600 sounded a bit too bright to me.
     
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  5. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    For completeness: distortion and CSD for HD600.

    HD600 Distortion MiniDSP EARS
    Per V2 FR measurement levels above where -10dbFS = ~100db SPL
    Note higher noise floor with MiniDSP EARS because of required compensation
    HD600 distortion.png

    HD600 CSD on Flat-Plate Coupler
    FPC HD600R.jpg

    Eventually, I'll sort out the MiniDSP EARS so I can get proper CSDs from it. Right now, the concha gain from the EARS puts a big ass ridge just 5kHz. A simple EQ based on the calibration won't fix it. My preference would be to go with a simpler measurement workflow unless something requires more investigation from the flat plate or foam couplers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  6. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    FWIW, I don't think the HD600 is bright.
     
  7. Vtory

    Vtory Illogical Spock

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    Isn't that just various boderlines of "being bright" across people?
    To me hd600 brightness is quite acceptable. But I do think they're bright'er' than hd650 or auteur/aeolus.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I think if you took a poll of senior SBAF members, the bell curve would center on "slightly bright".
     
  9. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    We all have different appreciation about how different equipment sounds. In this case, my appreciation is just my 2 cents. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

    I know many consider the HD650 to be less bright than the HD600. To me they are both too close to call.

    I honestly don't know about the Auteur/Aeolus.

    Please don't mind me. In all of this, I'm just a data point. Nothing more.
     
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  10. Scubadude

    Scubadude Almost "Made"

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    Interesting. I love the HD600 ... It was my first proper headphone and (now my third one) remains firmly in my collection and this morning firmly on my head. I always felt the only real criticism I have (short from obvious rolled off extremities ... I can live with that) is a slight steely edge in the upper mids. The measurements tell me my ears survived almost 50 years of abuse in reasonable nic.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  11. yvv

    yvv Acquaintance

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    This HD600 graph is the first I've ever seen that reflects exactly what I hear while doing linear sweeps (with some peak shifts reflecting my particular pinnas and ear canals). I've always felt that the presence region was elevated on the HD580/600 . Operatic vocals are somewhat uneven and shouty on them.
    Would it be possible to see the HD650 FR on top?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Yup. In a bit.
     
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  13. Type35

    Type35 Rando

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    There are many versions of HD600 (same goes for HD650) and the sound signature has changed over the years (not drastically but enough to be measurable). It would be really useful to list which version you measured (it's written on the box) and also the state of the earpads when tested. If you do the same measurements for the HD650, it would be a plus to use the same pads as the HD600 to be able to accurately compare the results.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Recent production HD600 and new pads. HD600 and HD650 have been stable since right before Massdrop released the HD6XX a few years ago.

    No point measuring older variants that can no longer be obtained. Will be acquiring new HD6XX just in case. Will be using HD6XX pads just in case they are slightly different from HD600 pads. If they are the same, not going to worry about it since human factors (placement, brain-farts, improper installation of pads, etc.) will be a greater source of measurement error. Sennheiser pads have always been consistent.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
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  15. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Looks like you get a worse seal than I do on my head. Stock HD600 on my head is actually just as midbassy as HD650, i.e. about a 5db elevation at 100Hz. Considering that it looks about right. With a better seal the whole range up to 1kHz should go up just a bit, with the effect getting less and less strong with increasing frequency up to 1kHz. To me 2kHz is just a bit below 1kHz, but 1.5kHz is definitely elevated. 3-4kHz should be 2-3db elevated, not 5 I feel. Maybe my target curve is just leaner overall, though.
    With less clamping pressure on the headband I can get a pretty similar looking graph.

    Do I consider the HD600 bright overall? No, but I think it's peaky and can be gritty or even harsh at times. Treble is definitely not as smooth as a modded HD800. I do consider the HD650s I heard warm, though and would consider the HD600 as closer to neutral than the HD650.

    You can get very close to that and it's not even that hard at all. Basically do what Bill-P did with the TP in front of the baffle to raise the region below 1kHz by 2db or so. Slight pad mods can help with the 3-4kHz and treble bumps.
     
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  16. EagleWings

    EagleWings Friend

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    Going through Massdrop may be the best route to get Sennheiser to make such a product, as the recent products from Senn gives me the idea that the company is moving in a different direction. Its definitely worth giving it a shot. I am in.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I'm going to try to dig up some old HD600 pads and see if I can get a better seal. These pads were brand spanking new and all fluffy. I'm curious if older pads drenched in sweat and dead skin cells might provide for a better seal. I also want to experiment by taking the miniDSP ears putting them in the dummy head that I have to see if I can a better seal.

    Yeah, I also think 3-4kHz should be 3db elevated, but not 5db. These changes would make the HD58X look more right to what I hear as well. If I have time, I will tweak the curve and update the results.

    I would expect the HD650 to have slightly more bass, flatter 3kHz, a bump around 5kHz and recessed mid-treble.

    EDIT: Maybe 1db to 1.5db lower. This HD600 pair does sound like it does have more emphasis than usual around 3kHz. Could be the pads. I called @brencho on this to get his take as a reality check.

    It's less the highs. I want the better bass extension of the HD58X.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  18. westermac

    westermac Friend

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    HD58X bass extension + HD600 everything else

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Maybe my 58X is messed up (doubtful given Senn), but it’s dark as hell in the upper mids. Weird 5K spike. I found a good but impractical use for them nonetheless.
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Yeah. 2-5kHz should be pulled down a bit. Keep in mind you may have been accustomed to HD650's semi-broad 4-6kHz bump. It's obvious when going to calibrated speakers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019

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