Sennheiser HD650

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Jeangenie, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. Wilewarer

    Wilewarer Almost "Made"

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    Trying to understand what I'm hearing from these a bit more (and maybe get some Headphones 101, too).

    When I listen to my (unmodded) 6xx from my Magni 3+, I notice some bad vibrations. Feeling the music in a way that interferes with hearing it, mostly but not entirely from the lows. The constant reminder that the music is coming from precisely some plastic discs against my head messes with staging, among other things. My first thought was that this is way more present from certain kinds of music, which it is, but the worst cases made me notice it more in general - it's usually there at least a bit. It's not something I get from my Aeon Closed, say.

    Is this something other people have noticed, over the years? I gather the 650 isn't considered especially good with low frequencies, and some of the mods people here and elsewhere have come up with seem like they might help with this, but maybe I'm misunderstanding how people describe stuff and why some of these techniques were developed.

    Another thing: this seems to be mitigated a bit by using the Magni 3+ in high gain (unfortunate, since I'd really rather use it on low - more pot range, and at more-or-less equal volume high gain seems a bit too intense somehow). Is this the kind of trait that better/different amps can help with?
     
  2. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Not totally sure what you're describing, but while the Magni 3+ is great, it doesn't totally do that headphone justice. The HD650 becomes alot more open, spacious, resolving and impactful on higher end gear. You may want to look into the Jotunheim if you're looking to stay in mid-fi.... used Jot 1's pop up for cheap occasionally. Better yet, try to spring for a SW51, which is brilliant with it. You can also play with EQ if you're looking to stick with the Magni.
     
  3. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

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    Describe these worst case scenarios. What track(s) and what element(s) of the music sounded bad to you?

    As @ColtMrFire mentioned, it scales with better gear. High Z amps can help grip the drivers and tighten up bass on 650's (ie. OTL's like Bottlehead Crack, DarkVoice and Valhalla 2). But that you feel Magni 3+ in high gain is "too intense" might suggest you favor focus and control over liveliness, which again makes it seem like Jot 1 is a good recc given the value, since it's strong there. Your Aeon Closeds will also not like an OTL. I probably woudn't do Jot 2 given your DAC is BF2, that combo is probably too thicc. SW51 has a great reputation around here and is considered more "straight lines" rather than fun and lively but may be hard to find used.
     
  4. Baten

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    At a loss here. Remember reading about the new HD600/HD650 sold have earpads made by a new OEM. There was speculation about this a while back but don't remember which thread. I purchased 2 sets of fake Sennheiser pads that someone linked, which I installed on two pair of 6-series headphones yesterday and they sound quite close to the stock/real pads. But I don't remember where I bought them LOL only that someone on SBAF linked them (ebay? amazon? china?).
     
  5. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    I can't find it either - maybe a thread that got nuked in the hack. I have a vague memory it was someone in Australia...

    Solderdude has measurements and descriptions of the new vs the old vs a pair of imitation pads here (scroll down to 'New Sennheiser pads'), but he doesn't link to where on Aliexpress he got the knockoffs. A quick search there brings up multiple options, maybe one will jog your memory.
     
  6. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Thanks! Super helpful! And yeah I tried searching but for some reason I can't immediately recall where the discussion took place.. wish I had an order confirm of the fake pads somewhere in my mailbox but alas. Also, a shame to see the "new" 2021 pads be a little bit worse in solderdude's measurements. For shame, I'd say. Thanks again for the link!

    Edit: found the "decent" fake pads perusing my mail.
     
  7. ergopower

    ergopower Friend

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    I bought a replacement set from Amazon based on a recommendation like you are describing. Might have been @rhythmdevils ? I found the package, mfg is misodiko, P/N is X00204QTS7. That company still has a bunch of headphone replacement parts on Amazon, but not that specific one.
     
  8. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Been using misodiko mesh for over a year now pretty good durability! Wanted to try switching it up, hehe.
     
  9. Majestyk

    Majestyk Acquaintance

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    I bought Chinese pads for my 600's last year and I'm just using them now. I really like the sound. They kind of turned them into a 600/650 hybrid. I was hunting for another pair today but I don't have an Aliexpress account. I did find these on ebay, which are probably similar...

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/322768805244

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/264309135095

    (Both have private feedback)

    I notice one review on the Aliexpress pair says the seller sent a different pair that was shown.
     
  10. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Yeah the second looks a lot like the ones I got from aliexpress direct. They sound good considering how cheap they are. Might try these misodiko velours the next time I need new pads. They look a lot like Sennheiser's new OEM...
     
  11. Wilewarer

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    Offhand, it happens a lot on Original Rockers - several songs on that album. From The Edge Of The Deep Green Sea, too. Distortion/reverb production effects in the lows often cause it, or at least those got me to start really noticing it. Especially weird when vocals are in the mix. It sounds a bit off and drowns other parts of the music out way more than I'd expect, more than on other headphones, but more than that it feels wrong. When I said bad vibrations, I was being literal. Tends to make things stage and image to about where the drivers are, too, even when it shouldn't.

    Maybe "uncontrolled" is the right word? It could even just be there's more bass emphasis than other headphones, but I don't think that's it. Could even just be that I'm hearing this stuff weirdly.

    Thanks for the amp suggestions. I've had some of these on my mind from reading here, and since I sold out of a different money pit hobby a bit ago, I can look around and see what's available. The SW51's extremely good reputation here is hard to look past, particularly, if any more shipments make it out of Russia. I still haven't heard too many different amps, so pointing out which ones work well and why helps.

    It might be fine for something to not go well with the Aeons, also - maybe moving in a more dynamic direction for closed cans. But that's not the 650 anymore.
     
  12. Majestyk

    Majestyk Acquaintance

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  13. Majestyk

    Majestyk Acquaintance

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    DId you buy them new, recently? I would take them back and try a replacement.
     
  14. Wilewarer

    Wilewarer Almost "Made"

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    They're not that new. I don't really think they sound obviously defective, just kinda bad in the way headphones sometimes do at things they don't do well. Then again, if what I'm hearing is that different from what other people have heard, maybe I should consider that. Could just be that I'm bad at describing this too.
     
  15. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    I know effects of pads have been well documented but adding more data.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    EARS, averaged:
    HD650 worn pads VS new pads (2).jpg

    HD650 Ireland (new pads) VS 6XX Romania (used pads).jpg

    IME genuine Sennheiser pads dont necessarily sound better than non-genuine. Non-genuine pads are more comfortable. Genuines are expensive, and non-genuine are cheap. I only bought new genuines as a reference point. Ill be using non-genuines for regular listening. The thing is that there are several vendors of fakes and they seem to come and go from Amazon... More stable brands like Geekria or Accessory House I've not tried because customer reviews are mixed. So I ordered these this time - update later.
     
  16. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

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    interested to hear how the no-names work out. I need new pads for 6XX but I feel like 50+ bucks is absurd.
     
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  17. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    New GVO brand replacements (left)
    New Sennheiser genuine replacements (right)

    The plastic rings on the GVO brands are very slightly too wide to sit flush and flat inside the rim of the 650 capsule. I really tried to make fit but it was too difficult. Returning to Amazon. Will order some others to try - update later.

    Strange mission because I think I enjoy the worn out and flat old pads more than the brand new pads. But used pads like these are kinda gross so would rather replace and break them in myself.
     
  18. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Geekria replacement pads (left), new genuine replacements (right)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Geekria pads appear a tad deeper with slightly narrower ear hole. Velour material and foam compression look and feel similar to stock. Seem to be approximately equally porous material using breath test.

    EARS, averaged:
    HD650 geekria.jpg
    HD650 geekria VS HD650 new genuine pads.jpg
    HD650 geekria VS HD650 worn pads.jpg

    Ill repeat these measurements on FPC to compare consistency, then do dynamat mods and compare CSD.

    Mostly I'm concerned with reducing 2-3kHz, slightly shouty. Subjectively, reduced 2-3kHz is not obvious, subtle maybe. Does sound a little less energetic / trebley compared to stock pads, different not better, unsure if preferable - need more time to compare. I don't find Geekrias too dark but I like dark.

    Ill buy an HD600 later (probably new current gen) and try with Geekrias then compare against HD650.

    edit: Another thing, Ive been switching to the new front-side foams that come with each pad. Each appear very similar to me but a small difference in density could account for some difference I suppose.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2023
  19. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Friend

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    I recently acquired a Delrimour Modern Audio Acoustik (DMaa) modded HD650. This was a popular mod here in Japan but DMaa closed up shop a few years ago so its quite rare to find. It popped up in this thread in 2016 but I never saw any impressions posted (they might have been and I missed them). In short I don't care for them.

    I tested it for an hour compared to a unmodded HD580 (raised plate black silk). I think the mod was designed to make the 650 more "flat" as in doing a frequency sweep on it everything sounds about the same volume .If that was the goal, then it is mostly a success, it cuts the mid/upper bass warmth a bit and trims the upper mids slightly. Vocals are placed slightly further away and there is a little more space in between instruments. Unfortunately this comes at the cost of engagement factor, its just really boring to listen to. It lacks dynamics and its bass is sort of limp. Vocals sound more spacious but it loses they intimacy that the 650 is famous for and even with the expanded staging its still not great staging. It feels like its giving up a great strength for a marginal improvement to a weakness. Not a good trade in my book.

    The treble is also quite muted overall, 650 isnt exactly a treble cannon stock but this mod makes it even less. Ironically it sounds kind of like a 660s, but I think the 660s is more engaging. it managed to cut the upper mids without being too dull.

    I personally would not recommend the DMaa mod at least for the 650. He also did the mod for 580s and 600s, those may have been better. I preferred the stock HD580 with every track I tried. I tested both with the Magni Piety and Jot 2 with J2 Dac as source. I liked the Piety better with it interesting enough, with the 580 I prefer Jot 2. The smaller stage of the magni brought a little more engagement.
     
  20. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Sennheiser mods seen in thread: KISS, semi-sealing baffle, driver vent foam adjustments, and padrolling. Copying them with my few experiments in the past have showed that reducing shouty upper mids is easy (but some tradeoffs im sure but possibly worthwhile depending on your preferences).
    My 650 experiment with melamine and jute. Sorry the thread is hard to follow. This is back when I first got EARS so the graphs and presentation are quite a bit more disorganized than usual.

    - My 650 / 6XX experiment where I completely sealed the baffle, then I add a few layers of felt to back of driver.
    - Pic of sealed baffle and felt damping.
    - I followed that experiment with removing spider cage and driver vent foam.
    ^ Today Id want to completely separate baffle mods from driver vent mods to better control and record differences.

    JUG650 v1: sealed porous baffle but from back side with closed cell foam. Just for fun. Not ideal. Just to see if upper mids go. Less solid material would have more mild effect.
    [​IMG]
    HD650 VS JUG650 v1.jpg
    edit: I wont call JUG in future out of respect, just this once to acknowledge inspiration by JAR.
    edit2: Ignore distortion measures in link, experimental and unreliable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2023

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