Sennheiser HD660S Speculation

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Junki, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I expect to see some differences. But I've not seen these huge and obvious differences.

    When folks say huge difference, I expect HD800 vs ATH-M50 differences. Or HD800 vs AKG701 differences. Or modded TP50 vs stock. Or so forth. Those are huge.

    HD650 vs HD600? I don't see these level of magnitude differences.

    Again, that is not to say they are not different.

    BTW, I was totally surprised when I measured and heard an old HD580 against my relative current HD600. They were amazingly close. Yet, the cups had a different design, the pads on the HD580 were a little worn, you name it. The drivers were original HD580 ones.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  2. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Thank you, what a great read.

    Nice to be reminded that it is possible to visit HF for good content, instead of just to laugh or cry.

    And Wow-just-wow...
    Incredible. How did I miss that. symptoms of dotage, I guess.
     
  3. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Yeah, even though the physical differences are quite obvious (or maybe not, cuz I know I tend to "zoom in" on things compared to regular folks), I don't think I have personally seen much variation in measurement.

    In fact, I have measured 3-4 different HD800, something like 10-12 HD580 (yeah, really!), 3-4 HD600, and 4-5 HD650 or so, and they are all very consistent within the same line. Save for differences in clamping force, ear pads conditions, etc... when just the drivers are measured (put in the same enclosure), their "variation" is essentially non-existent.

    That's quite something in and of itself. Speaks to Senn's engineering prowess. This is why I wouldn't discount Senn's products as being "poorly engineered" but rather... anything that's "bad sounding" could just be because they were too obsessed with making it consistent and precise in some objective measurements, without taking into account any listening test done by human beings.
     
  4. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    The drop in noise floor and increase in D3 points to a higher volume level to me more than changes to the headphone. Are you sure your volume calibration didn't drift? Or did you use a lot of averaging to get better SNR?

    Pad mods can do that. Even then that won't fix the driver ringing and the general treble coarseness compared to the HD800.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    They can but I don't think there's room to do so with the HD600/650 type pads since they are already on the fluffier absorbative side.
     
  6. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    I put felt on the underside of the pads and in my measurements it decreased the 3-4kHz region a tiny bit, maybe 1-2db. I don't think the measurements changed on the coupler, though. HD580 is probably still better, but that's what I did to make my HD600 closer to my preferences.

    EDIT: Just checked and it seemed to lower the 2-4kHz region by about 1.5db. Not a huge change, but it's there. I wonder if the change would be as big with new pads. I used pretty thin felt, so a thicker felt might have a bigger effect. Also has the benefit of smoothing the treble a bit in the measurements.
    In addition to that I also used a bit of extra front damping on the baffle like what Bill did. Just 1 ply of TP and do not put it in front of the driver. That increases the level below 1kHz, so the two together overall balance out the upper midrange quite nicely.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I can't be certain. I wish I had the old pair again. I can drop the volume on the pairs I do still have in possession and see if D3 in the bass drops accordingly.
     
  8. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    Oh damn, I know this is a HD660S thread, but I’m off to try this |{
     
  9. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    They are - the package indicates they are for both, including the 580
     
  10. imackler

    imackler Key Lime Pie Infected Aberdeen Wings Spy

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    I'm getting curious about trying the new HD660s pads on the HD600.
     
  11. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    I wonder if they are more durable/longer lasting
     
  12. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    My HD650 bought in 2014 with silver retail box has incredibly low distortion too. I thought it was a fluke when I compared it to other HD650 distortion measurements:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    People are going to start looking for HD650 by vintage like wine. What year was your HD650 bought? Hahahahaha
     
  13. wnmnkh

    wnmnkh Friend

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    Mine is 2006. More than 10 years now. Can't remember number of pads and headbands I had to exchange.
     
  14. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    So 6xx is just like Beaujolais Nouveau? ;) : Lacking deep tastes of great vintages but full of freshness instead.. easier to enjoy right out of the box.. (it partly makes sense imo!)

    btw I have a question to everybody who measures headphones - Is "mosquito" (I like how @ultrabike expressed!) higher or lower d3 audible? I heard somewhat cleaner upper bass after modding my 6xx, but my general experience about bass cleanness was often independent of measurements...
     
  15. Ray

    Ray Friend

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    I have them here now. I'll try and get a few decent pics and a brief listen before I'll send them to marv
     
  16. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    Based on early impressions/reviews the 660 is shaping up to be more comparable to the hd600 than 650. This would be a disappointment for me as the extra treble of the 600 always bugged me. Time will tell I suppose. Hoping to get a shipping notice from Senn soon.
     
  17. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    Yes, and that's what the Senn rep at RMAF suggested as well. But it looks like the area from 3-7kHz is better behaved than the HD600.
     
  18. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I'm not sure if it's just all the damping mods, worn pads, or what, but any recent THD measurements I've done on my HD650 look pretty decent in the bass too.
     
  19. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    I'm always surprised at the headphones that get referenced as being too treble-y. Like, I think of myself as someone who prefers laidback headphones -- the only headphones I ever just flat-out returned was a Beyer DT-880, because it was just painful to listen to -- but things like the HD600 or the Aeon Closed, both of which I've seen that complaint about, seem anything but trebly. Not dark in the way that like a NAD HP50 is, but certainly not bright.
     
  20. iDesign

    iDesign Almost "Made"

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    Yes, they are identical and the Product Code for the HD 580 / 565 / 545 / 600 / 650 ear pads is 050635

    The UK Sennheiser site is much better than the other regional sites.
    http://headphonespares.sennheiser.co.uk/hifi-tv-headphones/hd-650
    http://headphonespares.sennheiser.co.uk/hifi-tv-headphones/hd-600-avantgarde

    As aside, Sennheiser has long known the cushion material in the ear pads fails and softens with time. I'm surprised they never attempted to address this after 15+ years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017

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