Sennheiser HE1 (New Orpheus) @ Hong Kong AV Show 2016 Impressions

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by HitmanFluffy, Aug 6, 2016.

  1. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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  2. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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  3. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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  4. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    A bit disappointing.

    upload_2019-4-18_23-37-39.png

    upload_2019-4-18_23-37-47.png

    Above are hd600 and he1 measured by the same guy (presumably with the same measuring configurations).

    Harmanized bass -- yes it will be loved by harman employees.
    High midrange (specifically 1-2k) can be annoying to some like myself. Flat or gradual curve is more desirable imo. I bet this range would seem worse with sbaf-comp.
    7k and 9k peaks are way more evident than hd600.

    Frequency-wise, even if it's sold at 2k instead of 55k, he1 has lots of potential show-stoppers in my book.

    My guess is that he1 may work greatly with VERY CERTAIN set of recordings -- this might be why senn guys only allowed limited selection of tracks for demo. If anybody throws in more marginal or treble-challenging tracks, perception will vary a lot (politely speaking lol).

    Of course let alone my deep disbelief toward senn amps.

    Anyway, it seems the most normal among post-hd800 things.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  5. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    You are correct, it is the HE-1 not the HE-90 he is doing. I heard the HE-60 and HE-90, and they are awesome. They do not follow the Harman curve verson 2018.1582.1582.

    Even if that is the HE-1, I don't believe that guy. His raw HD600 measurement does not correlate with what I hear, so I question his coupler + compensation approach. I would like to see how the HE-60 and 90 measure in his rig for a baseline.

    For me, the red flag is that AFAIK the Harman curve (version 2019.2552.485158, and previous and subsquent versions so far) is shit.

    If phones and speakers were tuned with whatever version of the Harman curve (they go by year), they would sound a bit bloated and bassy. Olive fumbled big time on that one. Or maybe I should say, those ones.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  6. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    We have to agree to disagree on this one.

    For example Paul Barton of PSB/NAD is someone I respect and his research has lead a tuning very similar to the Harman Curve. I find the NAD Viso HP50 a good sounding passive closed back and the PSB M4U8 is the best sounding bluetooth headphone I've yet heard.

    Even Sonarworks target curve is very similar to the Harman Curve but with a lower bass boost. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

    I'm not an expert listener but this validates their research to my eyes.

    The only major disagreement is the level of lower bass boost but this is a matter of taste, individual hearing etc...
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I don't know what plot you are looking at or are doing some sort of wishful thinking, but Orpheus 2 is quite a bit off from that 2018 revision of the Harmon curve.

    Orpheus 2 has a little less low bass, less upper mids, and more mid-treble relative to the Harmon curve.

    This seems consistent with what I heard, knowing sort of how the Harmon curve 2018 revision sounds like.

    The Orpheus 2 was slightly mid-bassy, flattish throughout the mids, and had a peak in the mid-treble relative to what my ears would consider a neutral sound.

    @ultrabike, the lastest 2018 Harmon curve is less fucked. They've toned down the upper mids, but bass still seems overphasized. Bass of course is difficult to get consistent results because of seal and also because headphones will react differently to seal of lack of seal.

    Finally I am not sure if that dude's GRAS response is the same as that of Harmon's. He has a slightly different version of the GRAS I believe. It's probably close enough.

    In any case, if anyone told me to boost 3-5kHz on the Orpheus 2 by 4db (or even boost bass a bit), I'd rip their nuts off.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Finally let's stop making a big deal about the Harmon curve.

    Heck, in this case, the HD600 is closer to the 2018 Harmon from the upper bass to 20kHz, especially if 1/3 octave smoothing is applied - which is totally fair since this smoothing is still light enough not to smooth away peaks and reflects what we can hear or not hear when it comes to small tight peaks and nulls.

    The HE1 has a sharp peak at 9-10kHz. This is something shown on RATORY's plots and which I clearly heard. I have NO IDEA why this very INCONVENIENT TRUTH was left out of the analysis. Remember that this analysis was done by some rando on Reddit, being super excited and all, who wanted to equate HE1 with perfect FR, which unfortunately that scheister Olive has been able to convince almost everyone that the Harmon target is such. Yes, the 2018 is better, I will acknowledge that.

    Yes, Sennheiser does control the demos, but I still know the exact masters that they used and how they should sound.

    I expect better from any member here. More through analysis, more reading into the data, rather than parroting an analysis from a Reddit Rando of all people.

    We may as well drink the Kool-aid on the Benchmark whitepapers or THX well marketed feed-forward nonsense.

    As an aside, the CHA47 variant of the CMOY uses feed-forward. It's not a big deal. I built one on a breadboard using a +-15V power supply. It was my main amp for a few years from between my first and second kids.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  9. BenjaminBore

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    I spent a half hour or so with the HE1 a few years back. Exceptional as they seemed at the time the bass and treble were hyped as all hell, I was wincing regularly throughout the demo.

    It really aggravates me when people lay the Harmon Target based on one measuring system on top of a headphone response from a different system, operator, and in some cases even compensation. Anyone unsure as to why I suggest you go and compare the frequency response results for the same headphone from multiple sources.

    The only thing that has been practically useful for me was when Tyll took his measuring system to their lab a few years back and recreated the target. Which was then for the first time directly relatable to the frequency response of other headphones, through the uncompensated raw responses in his own extensive database of measurements. That target measured somewhere between the HD600 and HD650, with more bass quantity and bleed. So they may be on to something.
    https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/new-compensation-curve-innerfidelity-measurements
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  10. iDesign

    iDesign Almost "Made"

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    Sennheiser has shown the HE-1 Orpheus with different sources and cables around the world which surprised me because it creates some variability in the demo experience. For example, they have used an iMac, Microsoft Surface, Clear Audio turntable, Esoteric CD player and WireWorld, Furutech, and Cardas cables etc. They typically used CDs in settings where WiFi wasn't available or slow (e.g. CES). The albums Sennheiser USA usually had on hand were The Eagles "Hotel California," Pinkfoyd "Dark Side of the Moon", Nora Jones "Come Away With Me" and that's why the demos were largely controlled early on. Demonstrating the HE-1 with its onboard DAC vs vinyl is going to create significant discrepancies in the listening experience. On the two occasions I was able to demo the HE-1 I used my own MacBook Pro, TIDAL, Roon, and Audirvana+ accounts.

    And for what its worth, I was never enamored with the HE-1 because at that price you'd better own a set of speakers, mono blocks, and vinyl.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Fair enough, but different DACs and cables won't make a huge difference. That is they won't make a 9kHz peak disappear or a compressed remaster into the original CD master. The amp and transducers used are fixed, and that's huge in keeping the major variables the same.

    Disappointed that Sennheiser went ghey www.orfas.org on this one.
     
  12. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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  13. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    I much preferred the HE90/HEV90 to the HE1 system. It's a really special sound and does little wrong, just wish it had modded HD800 staging.
    I think I heard two or three different original Orpheus systems and two HE1s (could've been the same unit), once with an external DAC and once with the built in DAC. The built in DAC sucks. The HE1 was overall less natural and less involving to me. The tonality is completely different where the HE90 is possibly a bit mid-forward and the HE1 is U-shaped.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    HE90/HEV90 system is the best headphone system ever period. And this statement comes from someone who doesn't necessarily like stats.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  15. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    I wish I had been in a place to buy @3X0 's HE90 when he sold it for this reason. f'ing amazing .
     
  16. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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    Thanks, @purr1n. Did you ever get a chance to try an HE90 from an amp other than the HEV90? I think you mentioned that you had a T2 at some point.

    @zerodeefex: There's an HE90 available at HF right now for a mere 15k USD (asking price). And there are solid HEV90 alternatives out there, starting with the Aristaeus. I actually considered it, but this isn't the best time for me to spend that much.
     
  17. 3X0

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    That HE90 is in shitty condition for that asking price — wouldn’t pay more than half that or ~$8000 tops.
     
  18. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I don't think they understand what "mint" means.
     
  19. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    Except 15k invested now is like 60k of college paid for my kids when they go. I’d still take my speakers at this point.
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    T2 was really nice with HE90, but T2 compared to HEV90, a matter of tradeoffs and priorities. Think KGSS vs KGST. In this case, I preferred HEV90. It was a particularly good amp implementation.
     

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