Soekris "dac1541": DAC/Amp - Stream of Consciousness Impressions

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Torq, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. mocenigo

    mocenigo Acquaintance

    Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Munich
    OTOH the ADI-2 DAC has variable gain levels for the outputs, and costs much less. One can also replace the external PSU with a different one. Choices, choices. I am happy with the Soekris, however.
     
  2. Colgin

    Colgin Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    634
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Sounds like this comparison is using each as just a DAC. Any impressions using each as combined DAC/amp to directly drive headphones.
     
  3. Dr. Higgs

    Dr. Higgs Boson - Member

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    Likes Received:
    781
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Roswell, GA
    I'm curious about this as well since my intended use would be as a new all-in-one dac,HP amp, and preamp for my desktop monitors.

    I don't think I would get any use out of the extra bells & whistles from the ADI-2 Pro/DAC so I'm leaning towards the 1541 unless there's a huge disparity in headphone performance.
     
  4. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,218
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Palo Alto
    Home Page:
    I've compared informally the following DAC/headamp setups:

    1) dac1541 in soft minimum phase mode (~$1.3K)
    2) Bifrost MB Gen 5>Jotunheim (~$1K)
    3) Holo Spring KTE 3 in NOS mode>Neurochrome HP-1 (~$4K)

    I still own 1 and 3, gave 2 to my daughter.

    Headphones are MrSpeakers Ether C Flow and Æon.

    2 and especially 3 have immediately more gripping macrodynamics than 1, but 2 is harsher/more tiring in the upper midrange. 3 sounds lusher, bigger soundstage and overall more compelling than 1-2 (heck, it's 4x the price ;)). 1's soundstage, microdynamics, and transient edges are more to my liking than 2, very clear, balanced across the frequency range and stage, whereas 2 is more peaked, calls more attention to itself.

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. Colgin

    Colgin Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    634
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I think this was the same model Soekris DAC that was at the NY meet. I tested the PMx2 balanced out of each of the ADI-2-Pro and the Soekris DAC and my recollection is that I preferred the ADI although there were no side-by-side comparisons, I spent much more time on the ADI and the ADI had the PRT which may have given it moar powah. But the Soekris was no slouch and I thought it was good as well. By no means scientific and would be interested in hearing from someone who has had them both.
     
  6. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    3,218
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Palo Alto
    Home Page:
    Just adding to my dac1541 impressions: with soft min phase filter (my favorite of the factory filters), I absolutely love how it reproduces jazz double bass and drums. There's a definiteness in bass string plucking and in stick/brush strokes that is very present, immediate, as they are at a live gig. Sax is good, but not as present, for whatever reason (maybe breath/blow effects are slightly suppressed).
     
  7. SineDave

    SineDave Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Likes Received:
    862
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Home Page:
    The ADI2-Pro is definitely superior as an integrated unit to my ears. Bass has more texture and taughtness with the ADI2-Pro, and while the 1541 is capable, the ADI2-Pro is superior. I think the midrange on the 1541 might have a bit more bloom/lushness, but this is subtle. For me, after auditioning both I chose to use the ADI2-Pro when on the road.
     
  8. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    NJ
    I will have a listen to the ADI2-DAC tomorrow alongside the Soekris dac1541 with @Colgin tomorrow at canjam at the Sonarworks booth. I actually think its probably better use the Soekris as a dac/preamp. I don't mind the headphone output actually. My only complaint is that it sounds slightly dry/dead and its more intimate than having totl tube amp. That said, its extremely detailed and I didn't miss any detail when moving back and forth from the T3, albeit it as a bit thinner and less musically engaging. Still feel I am happy enough with the amp section, but i feel it does slightly hold back the dac section.

    One thing I would like another sbafer who owns the dac to confirm is the difference between single ended and balanced outputs as a dac. When plugged into my studio monitors, they really sound different, with me favoring the SE output over the balanced.. The timbre seems much more richer and the sound is heftier, giving a better sense of depth in the soundstage as well. This sound is more musical. I feel the balanced sounds cleaner, but leaner and has a slightly wider soundstage, but loses depth. All the elements are portrayed more forward. It also sounds drier with less air and decay. Imaging doesn't seem to be as good.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  9. soekris

    soekris MOT - Soekris Engineering

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    954
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Denmark
    You need to be aware that many balanced inputs add a separate balanced to single ended stage, which might degrade the sound, especially if it's the typical opamp circuit....

    The dac1541 do not have any separate stages for the single ended or balanced output, it's all in one combined fully differential stage built with discrete parts and without negative feedback, so in principle the dac1541 single ended and balanced outputs should sound the same....
     
  10. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    966
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Guys I'm interested in organising an EU group buy for the 1541. Should I start a separate thread?

    EU friends who want one please PM me and if we have 4 or 5 people I'll try to make it happen.
     
  11. sacredgates

    sacredgates Audio-Technica's high priest

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Black Forest Germany
    Home Page:
    Added some Metrum Acoustics Amethyst impressions in the Amethyst thread with comparisons to the Soekris Dac1541: link
     
  12. mitochondrium

    mitochondrium Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    A Cell
  13. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
  14. soekris

    soekris MOT - Soekris Engineering

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    954
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Denmark
    The dac1421 are in stock and will ship this Monday, shouldn't take more than a couple of days to get to the US....
     
  15. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    Hopefully US customs won't think it's an agricultural or food related product like they did with my Prism Sound dScope years ago. Paperwork spent time bouncing between FDA and USDA.
     
  16. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8,973
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Denver CO
    Home Page:
    Don't worry @atomicbob. I still have friends in the gov, and I called ahead for you. I told them it was an electronic part used for heavy metal enrichment, and that it will be forwarded to an address in Pyongyang soon. That should ensure your package gets plenty of first class care.
     
  17. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    I will know who to thank if I get reassigned as a stress engineer - rack duty.
     
  18. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    NJ
    @soekris I tested this about 20 times before posting this just to be sure ....With that out of the way....why does the 3.34 drivers sound different from 4.38 drivers/default drivers selected by windows on your website?

    I got into this whole thing because the dac1541 sounds different from ASIO and wasapi from jriver and f2k. I know they are supposed to sound identical but they don't by enough of a margin. Wasapi is harsh and thinner compared to ASIO. I'm not sure why...I don't have the answers, but i trust my ears. This has been the case with every dac i've used so I just stick to ASIO.

    I found that I can't use ASIO unless I install drivers so I installed the 3.34 drivers when I first got the dac. The 3.34 drivers are not digitally signed and so will not run without advanced startup on windows with driver enforcement turned off.

    I hardly tun off my computer and it usually wakes from standby mode, so this wasn't a problem until windows 10 being windows 10 kept restarting and updating my computer without permission, having me to constantly restart my computer again to get rid of driver enforcement.

    I decided to uninstall 3.34 and just use the default driver that works when plugged in. Again...not able to use ASIO....and I don't like the harshness of WASAPI, so I decided to try the 4.38 in hopes that it was driver signed so I didn't have to go through the trouble of restarting my computer over and over again. The sound is sharper/harsher, slightly better seperation but dryer, more forward sound, and thinner and more analytical. I can finally what people are saying about the analytical tilt of the dac now...which I never felt before....finally hearing the clarity that torq is talking about.

    I rolled back to 3.34 and the sound is back to what I'm used to.

    Testing was done by starting windows 10 without driver enforcement and switching the between the drivers. when you install one driver, it automatically uninstalls the other.

    I did a lot of A/B testing right using the same tracks on ASIO through the Single ended outputs.

    If other members with the dac are willing to give a try, it would be nice.

    Chain is ASIO/USB - Soekris dac1541-SE- EVE SC307 Monitors.
     
  19. soekris

    soekris MOT - Soekris Engineering

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Likes Received:
    954
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Denmark
    Hmm, you talking about things that are kinda out of my control....

    The 3.34 drivers are digitally signed by Soekris with a real certificate.... In the beginning it worked fine with win10, but the driver signing is the usual crap with Microsoft now enforcing signing with a Microsoft certificate, so new win10 installations can either use the USB Audio Mode 2 driver that Microsoft finally supplies. Or they can use the new 4.38 driver with ASIO support that we licenses from Thesycon in binary form, signed by Microsoft so it don't crap out.

    I can only recommend to stick to Windows 7, like I do....

    As you said, in principle the sound should be the same with any bit perfect ASIO driver, I can't explain why you hear a difference, but I will try to take it up with Thesycon.
     
  20. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Likes Received:
    8,193
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I'm going from months-old conversations with @atomicbob, and in non-Soekris-specific context ... but I'm pretty sure he found measurable differences between different USB drivers ...

    I'll let him comment further on the proper context and findings.
     

Share This Page