Soekris "dac1541": DAC/Amp - Stream of Consciousness Impressions

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Torq, Jul 27, 2017.

  1. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    The problem is squarely dependent upon which path one takes from application to USB driver. Refer to the following diagram:
    WindowAudioArchitecture_3_with_ASIO.png
    First, that diagram should make your head swim. It is a tortuous path to traverse for the applications programmers and driver writers alike.

    If MME, WASAPI, etc. goes the Shared Mode path then it passes through the Audio Engine which is designed to deal with multiple misbehaved streams. There is an input limiter in the path. That limiter has a fast attack and multiple second decay. Needless to say, when hitting the limiter the audio is trashed. Refer to the DDC section in this post and see how bad the limiter mangles audio and the resulting distortion Tutorial - Lies, Damn Lies and USB DAC technical measurements

    Now if WASAPI goes through the Exclusive Mode AND the media player such as JRiver is configured to REQUEST Exclusive Mode then the Audio Engine and its limiter are avoided. ASIO takes a direct path. This bypasses all the windows audio trickery. But ASIO isn't a magic bullet. If the ASIO driver is poorly written other bad things(TM) may happen to the audio. Trusted ASIO driver authors include Thesycon.

    I can only add that I have formed an extreme dislike for win10, especially for audio. Multiple win7 machines are kept running as I can usually make them behave for audio tasks. The few win10 machines around here are relegated to guest and internet browsing duties. Nothing for any serious audio and that includes all the measurements.
     
  2. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    @Cellist88, just to confirm that you are hearing this difference using ASIO with the current 4.38 and prior 3.34 drivers. You also talk about WASAPI/ASIO differences, but if I understand correctly that is not your question. You are saying you get preferable results using 3.34 vs the 4.38 driver.

    I'm happy to give that a go this evening. I'm on the latest Win10 Pro and will also report back on driver-signing behavior - I have not had issues with either driver, but have been running 4.38 for most of the time.
     
  3. Hekeli

    Hekeli Facebook Friend

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    Well Mutec MC-3+ for example happily plays other windows audio while using this "trusted" ASIO driver... I don't think I ever read any explanation for this.
     
  4. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    That is weird...even using DirectSound FB2K and JRMC use exclusive mode and Windows can't play other sounds on my setup. Using ASIO there should be no way the Windows mixer can get involved.
     
  5. Hekeli

    Hekeli Facebook Friend

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    Finding my old post, I was using FB2k ASIO.. either it's ASIO client implementation differ or something other funky was going on.. others had the same problem too. Goes to show that it doesn't matter what you use, you can't "trust" anything without testing it throughly.
    http://superbestaudiofriends.org/in...2-mc-3-smart-clock-usb.1772/page-5#post-62292
     
  6. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I would try another player. I have a very low opinion of FB2k born from repeated comparison between it and other software. Regardless of which configuration / plugins / drivers I used with FB, it consistently sounds worse than JRMC or Roon. I would suggest you give the JRMC trial a shot, configure for ASIO / WASAPI direct, and see if it functions correctly there.
     
  7. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Damn respect for @atomicbob for the depth of explanation, and evidence of differences in measured results.
     
  8. bengo

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    All DACs need a bitperfect test. At the moment only few expensive ones have it (PSAudio for example).
     
  9. mitochondrium

    mitochondrium Friend

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    In my opinionvAdi-2 Pro and Dac are not too expensive for what they have to offer including a test for bit perfection.
     
  10. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Well hell, I'm actually on 3.34. No Win10 issues with driver signing fwiw. Trying 4.38 now.

    First interesting factoid, the current installers when downloaded from http://soekris.dk/download.html are
    soekris_dac1101_DriverSetup_v3.34.0.exe and
    Soekris_dac1xx1_DriverSetup_v4.38.0.exe whereas the one I have is
    Soekris_dac1xx1_DriverSetup_v3.34.0.exe


    The two v3.34 appear to differ in terms of signing:

    soekris_dac1101_DriverSetup_v3.34.0.exe - ‎Tuesday, ‎29 ‎March ‎2016 03:54:45
    Cert SN 11212544978899b813a5b939c69c85f83b20
    CN = GlobalSign CodeSigning CA - SHA256 - G2
    O = GlobalSign nv-sa
    C = BE

    Soekris_dac1xx1_DriverSetup_v3.34.0.exe - ‎Tuesday, ‎25 ‎July ‎2017 16:22:47
    Cert SN 1fc5418f34892f2a6b6d9a2d
    CN = GlobalSign CodeSigning CA - SHA256 - G3
    O = GlobalSign nv-sa
    C = BE

    OK, after several rounds of a/b ing I have tentative results. Certainly I"m not hearing tonal changes like @Cellist88 describes. There could be some changes in treble I'm picking up around 6 khz but the fact I'm unsure suggests not. Next step is to record output with my Sonarworks mic and check that output back to back and visually.

    Actually I see my wee Focusrite has a line in so I'll use that. Single channel only but should be good enough.

    No driver signing issues even after reboots.
     
  11. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    @Cellist88 , here's an Audacity project with a mono track from each driver captured through a Focusrite Scarlett Solo, and both synced down to the sample. They sound basically identical and look basically identical. Considering these are captures of two different analog outputs, I have to imagine any variance is due to that and the two drivers are producing the same result.

    Soekris Drivers.jpg

    I'm happy to make the Audacity project available to you.
     
  12. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    Thanks for the thorough investigation. Hmm. I guess it may be placebo. I'll try listening again tonight but, I guess that puts my worries to rest for the time being. Thanks again!
     
  13. Nanekiu

    Nanekiu New

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    @soekris just wondering but what are those two empty capacitor slots on the pcb for?

    And when flashing filters on the dac does it replace the currently selected filter on the dac or can I choose which filter it will replace.
     
  14. soekris

    soekris MOT - Soekris Engineering

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    Are you looking at the picture of the dac1541 prototype on the website ? Haven't got around to replace the picture, the parts are mounted on production boards.

    When you download a new filter file you replace all the filters. If you just want to replace some, you will need to edit the source and rebuilt it, the source and tool are on the soekris website.
     
  15. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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  16. JoshMorr

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    Looks very interesting - please keep us updated. I'm new to filter swapping. Is it hard to do? Any ones you can recommend? Anything in between red and off stock filters?
     
  17. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    Start with the file that @Cellist88 has linked a few pages back, it has good variety. @randytsuch 's insturctions are on page 10 of this thread, it's for the DIY boards but the instuctions work for the commercial DACs too. I would get the cable that Cellist88 used because it's cheap and verified to work. If you run into trouble you can PM me and I can help.
     
  18. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    I sent some instructions to @captkirk a while back so hopefully this will come handy to anyone who will need some help in the future:

    "First I think you have to plug in the usb into the comp and see if it has drivers. If its recognized, then go to "device manager" and under ports(com & LPT) you'll see the driver there. Remember the name....COM#...double click it go to port settings and change "bits per second" to 115200.

    So with that out of the way,

    So open the case and find the pins. There should be 3 pins labelled txd, rxd, ground...I'm assuming near the left front part of the dac....

    Whichever adapter you got, you have to plug it opposite. So TXD cable goes to RXD pin, RXD cable goes to TXD, and GRD to GRD. Let me know if you have the same adapter I bought from amazon.

    so once that's plugged in.....run extraputty

    first screen that comes up look under the port box and select "serial". THe top boxes should change to COM1 and 9600. Change that to Wtvr Com # your usb was from device manager. Can be COM5 or wtvr it is and change the speed to 115200. THen press open at the bottom.

    Command Prompt should come up blank i guess?

    try pressing a button on your dac or turn the volume knob. Yuo'll get some text. that means its connected.

    now I think it was like...type +++. it will go to umanager now.

    Type filters all and you'll see all the filters that are currently on the dac.

    ok....now type download and press enter.

    now go to the menu line above the prompt and under go to send file- xmodem-send file...windows box for file selection will come up and you load this file on there.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vlX73LTzK9ovZtTjvVs2-fIjx6AhvZmW/view?usp=sharing

    it should download and program itself.

    type filters all

    you'll see different stuff in the filters.

    now type exit and the dac will function normally..just make sure to at least press the filter button once. operating lines with show in the box. and you can try out the filters. If you don't like them and want to go back, just type +++ again and do the above and put default soekris filters back. "

    @soekris Its exciting that new filters will be officially developed.
     
  19. soekris

    soekris MOT - Soekris Engineering

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    Yeah, as I have said before, I consider the filters the weakest point of the soekris dac, hope to fix that....

    And for the upgrade I will charge.... EUR 0.00. For those having trouble with valuta calculating, that will be.... USD 0.00.
     
  20. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    You should try to hire Paul to do them.
     

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