Soekris DAC2541 Review And Measurements

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    Caveats:
    1. I’m not a musician, audio engineer, or electrical engineer… I’m a 50-something listener with average ear-balls (although I can still hear higher frequencies that my slightly younger wife can’t hear anymore).
    2. I have never really heard a significant difference in the DACs I’ve used in the past, and
    3. I have never tried to verbalize what I hear before… I’ve always been a “that sounds better” type of guy.
    Since no one is familiar with my listening preferences, I tried to include a little description on my current equipment as I went.
    This is long... I apologize in advance…
    ----------------------
    TLDR
    BH Crack/Eikon: Amethyst > Soekris (based on personal preference and system synergy)
    SW51+/Auteur: Soekris = Bitfrost 2
    3F/Auteur: Soekris ≈ SFD+1 Mkii SE+ (but different), both > Bitfrost 2
    ----------------------
    Initially, it was a little overwhelming as to how I was going to try this DAC with the various amp/headphone combinations that I have available. Especially after reading comments that the Soekris takes 1-2 days to sound its best and the fact that my listening is spread out between multiple locations (home, office & workshop).

    To try and streamline, I decided to keep it to the amp/headphone options I listen to most often. This meant that the Mogwai SE (currently boxed up and awaiting completion of a living room renovation) and my only 2-channel system (workshop), get left out. Since none of my DACs have AES, all comparisons are via RCA SPDIF for consistency.

    With the plan figured out, it was time for the playlist…
    Anner Bylsma Prélude to Bach’s Suite for solo cello No. 1 in G major
    The 5 Browns Malagueña from Andalucia Suite
    Pamela Frank/Zurich Tonhalle Orchestra Mozart’s Serenade No. 7 for orchestra in D major
    John Williams/John Etheridge Extra Time for 2 Guitars
    Duplessy & The Violins of the World Kung Fu
    Kaki King Ingots
    The Beatles Norwegian Wood
    Carl Anderson Heaven on their Minds
    James Brown It’s a New Day, Pts. 1-2
    Earth Wind & Fire Shining Star
    Los Lonely Boys I Don’t Wanna Lose Your Love (Live at Blue Cat Blues)
    Led Zeppelin Moby Dick (from How the West was Won)
    Daft Punk Giorgio by Moroder
    Ben Harper & The Blind Boys of Alabama Take My Hand
    Horace Silver Quintet Finger Poppin’
    Maynard Ferguson Birdland
    Phil Woods Rain Dance (Live from the Showboat)
    Bill Evans Trio Detour Ahead [Take 2]
    Ray Charles/Count Basie Orchestra Oh, What a Beautiful Morning
    Macy Gray Redemption Song
    Joni Mitchell California
    [​IMG]
    Pi2AES ->coax SPDIF-> Metrum Amethyst/Soekris 2541 ->RCA-> BH Crack -> Cherrywood Eikon (Eikon Lamb)
    I’ve had the Amethyst/Crack/Eikon chain the longest and I am more familiar with this chain than any of the others that follow. Since the sound of the Crack can vary so much, it probably makes sense to list the mods, so people familiar with the Crack can triangulate:
    • Speedball + Alps Pot + Mundorf Caps + Cree Diodes (I have a choke, but I’m afraid to mess up what I already love)
    • Chatham/Tung-Sol 6AS7G & Tungsram ECC82 (ribbed plates)
    As the Soekris warmed up, I listened to the Amethyst Friday evening for calibration, and started listening to the Soekris Saturday afternoon thru Sunday night. After about 30 sec of Soekris, gone was the idea that I can’t hear a significant difference in DACs. (I ended up with Soft Minimum Phase -light off- as my favorite.)

    My first thought was “boy, that’s much cleaner, and brighter”, while having a similar blackground. The treble was sharper and more extended… passing my Joni Mitchell California sibilance test (but Maynard Ferguson’s Birdland went over the line for me). I appreciated the extension when the cymbals on Horace Grant’s Finger Poppin’ were really pulled out of the background, but I didn’t care for the extra on some of the horn parts of Earth, Wind and Fire’s Shining Star.

    The mids… compared to the Amethyst, they sounded a little thin… Anner Bylsma’s violoncello in Bach’s Suite No.1 in G major didn’t have the richness that I was used to and saxophone (overall) was a noticeable step back for me. That said, I didn’t notice the thin sound as much with electric guitar on Los Lonely Boys I Don’t Want to Lose Your Love or with Led Zeppelin’s Moby Dick. The big improvement was that the Soekris was less congested during busy passages. This really stuck out when listening to Phil Wood’s sax roughly 3:10 into Raindance… on the Amethyst the notes tend to run together, but they are very clearly defined on the Soekris.

    Relative to the Amethyst, I thought the bass quality of the Soekris was outstanding, with more texture and nuance. The opening drums & bass on Ben Harper’s Take My Hand and Kaki King’s guitar percussion on Ingots sounded tremendous, much more texture and less one-note. The bass in Daft Punk’s Giorgio by Moroder had more impact and the long drum solo on Moby Dick was quick and fast.

    From a headstage standpoint, I felt like the Soekris was more distant, a little wider and a little deeper. However, when listening to the Amethyst I felt more immersed in the music… I Don’t Want to Lose Your Love gave the impression of being on stage with the band, and having the music flow all around me. I never had this feeling with the Soekris.

    All in all, there were things I really liked about the Soekris in this chain… it also showed me shortcomings in the Amethyst that I really hadn't paid attention to previously.

    Pro's:
    • The Soekris sounded more neutral, cymbals were greatly improved,
    • Soekris Speed(TM) improved busy passages relative to the Amethyst
    • I really appreciated what I considered to be a huge improvement in bass presentation.
    Con's:
    • I felt the Soekris was a little thin on some instruments and too bright on others (especially horns). If I had the time, I would try rolling some other tubes (Mullard CV4003 or CBS/Hytron 5814a immediately come to mind), but I’d hate to lose the spaciousness the Tungsram gives me.
    • To my ears, the Amethyst did a better job rendering the space with live music (e.g., Bill Evans Detour Ahead)
    • I thought the Amethyst had superior midrange “heft”.
    In the end, I favor the overall experience of the Amethyst with this chain (synergy really is everything), but I wish I could combine the bass/treble of the Soekris with the mids of the Amethyst... I guess now I'm going to start exploring options...(Spring 2?). I suppose it could also be that I’ve been listening to this chain for almost 2 yrs and its like pulling on a well-worn pair of jeans, but music from the Amethyst sounds richer and more “real” vs listening to a recording with the Soekris.

    [​IMG]
    Pi2AES ->coax spdif-> Bitfrost 2/Soekris 2541 ->RCA-> SW51+ -> Cocobolo Auteur (Eikon Perforated Lamb)

    I’ve had the SW51+ (stock tubes) for only 4 months, but it is certainly a special amp… my Mogwai SE had been my main workplace amp, but the SW51+ made it easy to box up the Mogwai to reclaim desk space. (The Mogwai is currently sitting at home and will go in my living room… if I can ever get the LR renovation done). Just like I think the Amethyst pairs really well with my BH Crack, I think the SW51+ pairs really well with the Bitfrost 2.

    Following the same approach as the Amethyst/Crack, I allowed the Soekris to warm up all day Monday while I listened to the Bitfrost, then spent Tuesday with the Soekris.
    I’m immediately reminded of one of my caveats… I really have a hard time hearing a significant difference between DACs. With the SW51+, I find both DACs to be engaging and easy all day listens. The Soekris comes across as having a little more depth, the Bitfrost seems a little more in your face. I do hear slightly more bass impact on the Bitfrost, but I’m really splitting hairs.

    I think the biggest difference is that the Soekris sounds slightly sharper to me. I heard this most clearly when listening to Carl Anderson’s vocals on Heaven on Your Mind. I’m not sure how to describe it, but the vocals came across as someone trying to over-enunciate their speech when listening with the Soekris.

    As a final step, I hooked both up to a Sys to tried switching back and forth between them – 1 minute of a song, switch and play the same minute again on the other DAC. Yes, I guess I still hear the same things, but I may have overstated the differences… they sound so close to me.

    Pi2AES ->Coax SPDIF-> Bitfrost 2/Soekris 2541/SFD-1 Mkii ->XLR-> ECP 3F -> Cocobolo Auteur (Eikon Perforated Lamb)
    I’m still figuring out the 3F. It arrived just before we went into lockdown and it was stranded in my office for the better part of 9 months (my group was allowed to return in November, and we’re still the only ones in a largely empty building). I love the speed and control the 3F has over the Auteur, but I really find the amp to be mood specific. Some days I can’t take the headphones off; other days I’m flipping over to SW51+. I guess they are different and very complementary amps.

    The SFD-1 is brand new (to me), having only received it 3-4 days before the Soekris arrived. I immediately noticed how deep and wide the SFD’s soundstage is compared to the Bitfrost… but otherwise I’m still in a “getting to know you mode” with the SFD.

    With only 1 day left in my loaner, I need to get all three DACs onto the 3F so I decided to pick and choose my way thru the previous playlist… focusing on specific parts of songs, rather than listening to them the whole way thru. I mention this because it is not a good way for me to determine how emotionally involved I get in the music (?PRAT?)… instead, I’m more focused on technicalities (which I don’t find enjoyable at all).
    Bitfrost v Soekris
    What immediately jumped out to me was the treble on the Soekris. The delicate piano work in the first minute of The 5 Browns Malagueña from Andalucia Suite was cleaner and crisper on the Soekris; the high-hat in Ingots sounded clearer and had more texture; the clink of glasses/silverware on Detour Ahead (Take 2) was much more present and added extra ambiance to the track. In general, I heard the treble as more extended, delicate and nuanced (but no sibilance problem with either Birdland or California)

    I found the mids to be fairly similar between both DACs, but like the treble, I found the Soekris mids to be more nuanced in presentation. I thought Soekris did a better job rendering both finger pluck and guitar string reverberations (?microdynamics?) on Ingots and The Beatles Norwegian Wood. The busy saxophone portions of Finger Poppin’ and Rain Dance were a tad less congested on the Soekris. The gravel in Macy Gray’s voice in Redemption Song was just slightly more apparent and slightly less smoothed on the Soekris than it was on the Bitfrost, but I’m splitting hairs. If I were in a traditional “just listening” mode vs consciously trying to listen for differences, then I would be perfectly happy/content with either DAC's midrange.

    Bass. Schiit’s strong point and the Bitfrost came out ahead for me in this comparison. I found the sub-bass in Take My Hand largely absent on the Soekris, but on the Bitfrost the sub-bass really grounds this piece. There was slightly more weight to the drums in Moby Dick (but the Soekris may have been ever so slightly faster… but maybe not…)

    I found the headstage on the Soekris to be both wider and deeper than the Bitfrost, but this is headphones, so I didn’t think it was hugely significant… just noticeable.

    Soekris 2541 v SFD-1 Mkii SE+
    This is probably the fairest comparison, since I have no history with either DAC. I’ve had the SFD a total of 2 days longer than the Soekris. The SFD is running Tesla E88CC tubes that came in the DAC (not sure what the general consensus is on these tubes and haven’t even begun to research). I did have to turn up the 3F to achieve comparable volume levels on the SFD, but that’s not a big deal.
    I find this comparison both easy and hard… to me these DACs have very different presentations, so I’ll start with the most immediately obvious to me. The SFD headstage dwarfs the Soekris – wider, deeper, more expansive… it is addicting with the 3F. It’s almost like I’m sitting in the Village Vanguard listening to the Bill Evans Trio play Detour Ahead (and I’m annoyed at the coughing/drink clinking a-holes at the table next to me).

    From a treble standpoint, I find the SFD lacking in comparison to the Soekris. The SFD comes across as slightly muted and uneven. Maybe it’s the installed tubes, or maybe the Soekris is overly sharpened, but I find it more difficult to pick out delicate treble portions on the SFD (see Malagueña piano comparison in Bitfrost v Soekris). With the SFD, the cymbals on Ingots seem somewhat recessed but the tambourine on Moby Dick is right up front. The Soekris seems much more even-handed with the treble (or maybe the mix is supposed to be more recessed in those pieces… I don’t know).

    The midrange is more difficult. There is life to the SFD mids that I don’t hear in the Soekris. The reverberation in Carl Anderson’s voice in Heaven on Their Minds, the low growl in Jimmy Page’s guitar intro on Moby Dick, and Shining Star sounds just... well... a little groovier. I find it incredibly hard to explain the difference I’m hearing, because they are very much the same, but very much different. I guess I’ll leave it at that.

    To me, the bass on the SFD sounds a little more rounded than the Soekris, with the Soekris sounding like it has a little better definition on both the soft kick-drum on Joni Mitchell’s California and better definition across the board on Giorgio by Moroder. However, I noted that the SFD seems to have more bass extension on Take My Hand and Giorgio by Moroder… rivaling or exceeding the Bitfrost2 (I’ll need more time comparing the two).​

    Conclusion
    I found the Soekris and Bitfrost2 almost identical on the SW51+, but thought the 3F was really able to shine a light on the differences between the two DACs. I have no idea if the RCA outs on the Soekris are leaving something on the table with the SW51+ vs balanced to the 3F, or if the Soekris just scales more with a TOTL amp.

    Like @dematted, I wish I had more time with the Soekris (on the 3F), but not so much that I’m ready to sell anything off and pick up the Soekris tomorrow. Maybe if a used Soekris turns up someday I can do a longer term comparison on the 3F... but I really view these two DACs as a case of equal but different.

    I really appreciate being able to participate in the loaner tour… this is my first attempt at critically listening to differences in DACs. I have to say that I found the exercise eye-opening, but I also found that I’m not a fan of listening for differences vs listening to music. I guess there is a reason it typically takes me a month or more to make a decision on a piece of equipment (rather than 5 days).

    Unless I hear differently (re shipping to @atomicbob to test the RCA outs), I will be boxing up the Soekris later tonight to send to @Vtory.

    -------Edit... bad cell phone pics or it didn't happen------
     
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    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  2. tommytakis

    tommytakis MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    I've owned the 1541 in the past and I thought it was pretty good, so I was curious to hear the 2541. Big Thanks to @pure5152 for letting me audition his Soekris 2541 with my own stuff! Most of my listening was done with the red filter.

    Headphone Rig: Pi2AES > Soekris 1541 | Convert 2 | SFD2 | Burl B2 Bomber > Elekit TU8800 > modded hd580 | ETA Proto | ESX900
    Speaker Rig: Pi2AES > Soekris 1541 | Convert 2 | SFD2 | Burl B2 Bomber > > Elekit TU8800 > Fostex BLH
    [​IMG]

    - 2541's overall characteristic is very clean and "normal" sounding, just like its predecessor.
    - clarity/blackground is really clean and clear compared to schiit stuff, but not as good as Convert 2's hyper clarity and vividness.
    - microdynamics on 2541 is pretty good for the price point, nuanced but I wouldn't say it surpasses the level of my Sonic Frontiers SFD2. Never really sucked me into my music like SFD2 or Burl.
    - timbre is good as well and nothing offensive like typical good r2r dacs.
    - wish it had a bit more of that "meat on the bone" vintage R2R tone density (personal taste)
    - macrodynamics are still weak af on this dac, which was my big gripe with the 1541. This is a big deal breaker for me as I like slammy dacs. When I was flipping between Convert 2, man it was so apparent which turned me off. Maybe I'm being a bit unfair comparing a much more expensive dac, but it was the weakest of the 4 DACs I had on hand.
    - imaging is very good and "3D," though staging is not the biggest. noticeably smaller sphere compared to the other 4.
    - Resolve is pretty good, I think maybe somewhere between Bifrost 2 and Gungnir Multibit?
    - Overall, I think it's a competent DAC, but it just doesn't suit my tastes. My dinosaur DAC SFD2 just destroys Soekris in in terms of both macro and microdynamics and resolve while Soekris having the upper hand in clarity/blackground and maybe a bit in the transients. I know some may find Convert 2's dynamics and hyperclarity exaggerated, but I just find it to be such a fun listening experience. Burl is just a good all rounder that doesn't do anything outstanding but is competent in all areas. Soekris just never really engaged me the same way Burl did (in both headphones and speakers). I'm a bit disappointed because I REALLY wanted to like this dac. Maybe bad system synergy with my Elekit or maybe Soekris house sound just isn't for me, who knows?

    One thing for sure is that I WON'T be missing this DAC as I ship this back to its owner.

    TL;DR: I think it's alright, but it won't replace any of my current dacs.
     
  3. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    I agree the Soekris does not 'slam' the way your Convert can, but personally I do find it really engaging with very good PRaT and 'one more song' qualities :) considering it's a ~1100€ DAC for those in the US I assume it can still hold its own VS the other big boys in its price class though.
    BTW, did you try the soft knee (light off) filter, too?
    Cheers
     
  4. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    @tommytakis Thank you for the testimony, it was really interesting especially the comparison with SFD-2. I was considering between the 2541 and SFD-2 not too long ago. In the end I choose the SFD-2 mainly because it's available locally but sometimes I wonder if I make the right choice...

    Are you saying that the SFD-2 has more resolution than the 2541?
     
  5. tommytakis

    tommytakis MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    i did try all four(?) and was hoping I could try loading custom filters as well, (because I actually really liked 1541 with custom filters from DIY forum)
    But it didnt end up working out. At least with speakers, I liked the red one the best and black one second best

    Oh yeah don’t get me wrong, Soekris definitely has good microdynamics, and like I said, it could be bad gear synergy with my Elekit. I imagine if I still had my Starlett, it might have been a better match up. Also convert 2 has its own set of problems, but I just don’t mind it personally.

    I might also be a degenerate who likes exaggerated dynamics so don’t take my review too seriously :)

    personally, I’d take SFD2 over Soekris any day. Both dacs have trade offs, but SFD2 fits my sonic preference better.

    I really wanted to like this dac because a lot of friends I trust here are big fans of soekris, but I just don't think it’s for me. :/
     
  6. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Why do you think the Starlett might have been a better matchup - is the Elekit more rounded and so less microdynamicly revealing?

    I have a Starlett with a Gun MB A2 in front of it (transformer to convert BAL to SE), and I have been wanting to try something different. The Matrix Sabre, Burl, and 2541 have been on my mind. I don't want to give up any detail and resolve, but would not mind faster transients...perhaps I should be looking at the Convert 2, but the Burl is more practical/all-rounder I think...
     
  7. tommytakis

    tommytakis MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Just speculating. Elekit is not round at all and quite the opposite of Starlett when using Ultralinear mode. SFD2 matches better for my setup because of the slight tubey-wetness and vintage R2R tone density that adds body and tone to the overall sound. Elekit sounds like a good solid state and not very tubey compared to something like Feliks Euforia. Soekris tilts in the slightly lean side like my Elekit so I didn't think the synergy was that great.

    I'd go for Matrix if you want to counter the slightly rounded presentation of Starlett. I heard this exact setup at Chacha's and quite liked it. If you want to stay with Schiit, I'd go for Yggdrasil GS or A1. Burl is also a great all rounder and might be my favorite Delta Sigma DAC so far so also might be worth checking out. (Convert 2 is a close second, but I don't think it's a DAC for everyone so I'd recommend with caution)
     
  8. dematted

    dematted Friend

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    I think it's pretty remarkable how much a lot of our impressions of a piece of gear are colored by the system of which they are a larger part. I feel pretty strongly that certain gear that I've reviewed somewhat negatively in the past (like the Sonett 2) would sound great if it was just matched with the right gear. As for the Soekris 2541, I do tend to use it with an amp that's also just a little bit on the "leaner" side (The ZMF Pendant), but I find that this kind of chain is just what's needed to balance out the inherent "Wetness" of the Auteur. But I wouldn't want to use this chain on a Focal or the HD600...

    I guess the point is just that it's really important, when considering impressions (Both your own and that of others) to think about both the system in which that piece of gear is functioning and the particular sonic preferences of the listener.
     
  9. tommytakis

    tommytakis MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Yep, system synergy matters no matter how great the gear is. Which is why I pointed out that my "meh" impressions of Soekris could very well be due to bad match up with my gears along with personal preference. lol I just hope no one brands me as a Soekris hater because of this review hahaha

    Yeah that makes perfect sense to me. I enjoyed the Auteur quite a bit with slightly lean/dry setup to counter the slight wetness/reverb-y sound of Auteur/ ZMF house sound. (Auteur is my favorite ZMF btw, glad to see you enjoying it now. I remember you didn't like it so much the first time you heard it)
     
  10. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    I’d skip the Matrix and go for a Burl or Soekris. Soekris if you wanna stay r2r. SFD only if you want to deal with warming up tubes in a dac and want something warm and wet and bigger staging but the latter only when on speakers cause headstage on headphones is barely a real phenomenon :p However, Matrix is super flat. Nicest case though, if only you can hear the case when listening to music. Maybe if you held it in your lap while listening.

    edit: also convert 2 is fun for a bit, kinda like drugs, not something you wanna do a lot unless it’s the new normal
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  11. animus

    animus Almost "Made"

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    Special thanks to @Jonah for loaning me his Soekris for the purposes of this review, and working through customs issues with me. This would have not happened at all without him.

    [​IMG]

    Setup is Lynx AES16e AES > Soekris 2541 BAL > Bryston BHA-1 BAL > Utopia. Reference setup is Lynx AES16e AES trafo to SPDIF > Bifrost 2 BAL > Bryston BHA-1 BAL > Utopia. 2541 was initially heard at about 7 hours of warmup, then 20 hours, then 48. I thought the sound was mostly "there" at 20 hours but ultimately was best at 48 hours. 7 hours was clearly much worse. Volume was set at -01 for the entire listening period to prevent clipping.

    Some quick notes on filters:
    • Red sounds the most transientally pure and has the least veil and rolloff, but has an inherent glassiness and plastickiness to it. Almost there but not quite.
    • Orange sounds off. Somehow lacks the transient cleanliness of red and the timbral qualities of green/black.
    • Green has a slight veil, but a hair thicker timbre. Effectively a worse version of black.
    • Black is the most veiled, but has a slightly warm and thick timbre that "masks" the plasticky nature of red. My personal choice despite the aforementioned veil.
    As is, it sucks that you are effectively compromising with all 4 filters. Orange and green suck and have no real reason to exist. A filter that combined the best properties of red and black would be the way to go.

    Now, for the actual DAC itself.

    The 2541 is, without a doubt, good. There is a clear appeal to this DAC's tonal response and clarity, as well as its general relaxed response that is great for background listening. It's good enough where I think my Bifrost 2 is effectively on par with it, and the primary deciding factor would be taste, and they trade blows in many departments in regards to my personal preferences.

    The Soekris, on my setup, is somewhat neutral with a tinge of warmth and some top end rolloff. Tonally speaking, I actually prefer this to the BF2's warm, thick and dark tonality, because I feel like the latter inherently colors the Utopia far too much, where the 2541 is much more faithful to the Utopia. The top end rolloff does lend a slight veil to recordings that is especially present on anything with treble heavy content. This feels more noticeable than BF2's veil, or maybe it's because BF2's veil synergizes with its overall thick and warm nature. On a positive note, at no point did I find the Utopia's treble grainy or harsh, as it often does on other inferior DACs with more neutral tunings than both the 2541 and the BF2, which is a sign that something is being done right here.

    Timbre is one of the Soekris' standout elements, at least on the black filter. It may not be as "transparent" or "clean" as the red filter, but the comparative lack of glassiness is a huge boon in my eyes. In comparison to BF2, BF2 comes off as maybe a little too thick overall, and is pretty far off from the relative purity of the black filter, never mind the red filter. Between the two, the 2541's black filter probably has my favorite timbre, but the above 3 are all imperfect.

    The biggest difference between BF2 and 2541, in my eyes, is presentation. BF2 is incisive and slams, as is expected with Schiit DACs, where 2541 is slightly relaxed and, despite having less of the upwards macrodynamic compression that BF2 has, has a much weaker macrodynamic slam, to the point where it sounds like some form of downwards macrodynamic compression that shaves off waveform peaks. I don't think it's actually that extreme, but that illustrates the point well enough. The slightly polite and relaxed Soekris presentation reminds me of the Wavelight to a certain degree, except the Wavelight still has ungodly dynamic range and slam for days, which makes the mellowness seem paradoxical in conjunction with other intangible behaviors. The slightly compressed and tame nature of the Soekris matches up just fine with its presentation, and therefore sticks out less.

    Despite the somewhat compromised macrodynamic performance, microdynamics are very good. I don't think they're nearly as good as Wavelight (well duh) but it might be slightly better than BF2. I've always thought BF2's microdynamic delineation lagged behind slightly in comparison to many of its other aspects, so this is about right in my eyes. The compressed-macrodynamics-but-good-microdynamics thing reminds me in some ways of ZMFs, to bring forth a headphone comparison. It's definitely a taste thing as to which one would prefer but I ultimately think the BF2 lines up more with my personal preference for incision and slam.

    Having said that, I do have an interesting and slightly weird anecdote regarding the incision vs relaxed dilemma that's been apparent in both this DAC impression and the Wavelight one I posted 2 weeks ago. I have a specific recording of the Art of Fugue performed on piano (Evgeni Koroliov's, if you're curious) that I've always found incredibly fatiguing to listen to on my usual setup for no apparent reason. I could never quite piece together why, but when listening to an 80 or so minute set of performances, this obviously becomes a huge issue. With the 2541, I don't have this issue at all. It seems like the incision on the BF2 may be way more than what's "normal", and in conjunction with an incisive headphone and an incisive recording, makes contrapuntal piano sound about as relaxing as ball bearings raining on sheet metal. It's a very interesting thing to keep in mind, especially given how my biggest complaint with the Wavelight was the laidback presentation. Maybe that's not as much of a "bad thing" as I thought it was during my demo session.

    Moving on from all the above, the 2541 continues to trade blows with the BF2 in transients. As mentioned earlier, red is my favorite filter in this respect due to a sense of cleanliness and pureness to transients that I think synergizes well with Utopia. With this in mind, there is some degree of decay truncation and oversimplification of detail that occurs with the red filter that I think is similar to what I heard with the 1421 a year ago. The black filter has much less of this "decay truncation", but still seems to oversimplify and clean up transient behavior to some degree, especially in comparison to BF2. BF2 may not have either the decay truncation nor the transient oversimplification, but sounds sluggish in comparison. Wavelight blows away both in speed and has neither issue, though the sanity of repeatedly bringing up a $5000 DAC in a conversation about two $1000~ DACs is questionable.

    Now, where the 2541 falls behind. Imaging definitely takes a hit thanks to the lack of incision in comparison with BF2. Image sharpness is not remotely comparable, not even close. This is detrimental to layering, because 2541 retains similar congestion that I recall being present on 1421. BF2, in comparison to Wavelight, sounds congested, and in turn 2541 compared to BF2 sounds congested (though the delta in the latter is much smaller than the former). When writing the above paragraph, I questioned myself as to what I meant by "transient oversimplification", and it's only while writing this that I began to realize it largely manifested as a lack of ability to layer properly. Example: the same performance of Bartok's 4th quartet I used on Wavelight (Takacs Quartet, if you were wondering) sounds more like a single instrument doublestopping on 2541, instead of first and second violin playing in rhythmic unison like it does on BF2 and it especially does on Wavelight. Is this a bad thing? Yes. Is this a dealbreaker? Surprisingly enough, I don't think so. I think the slight wall-of-sound effect compensates for the 2541's lack of slam to a certain degree, and there is obviously an appeal in having that wall-of-sound effect in and of itself. Certainly something to take note of regardless.

    Soundstage has never been a big factor to me, which should be obvious given I own a Utopia. With this in mind, BF2 and 2541 both sound about the same in terms of stage to me, with Wavelight being particularly exceptional in this department. Nothing much to talk about here because my setup is not in the position to discuss this at all.

    In terms of macrodetail (which to me represents both surface level resolving ability and the ability to properly render texture), the Soekris and the Schiit are about on par provided black filter is used. The other 3 filters’ timbre clearly leaves the Soekris wanting in terms of textural resolve. In terms of microdetail, I think the Schiit is a little bit ahead. The raised noise floor of the Schiit DACs, as "colored" of a presentation as it may be, is a huge boon to microdetail resolve.

    The real question with every piece of gear is the "would you actually live with it" test. In the case of the 2541, and per my own preferences and synergy with my existing gear, I would say yes. Despite the compromised macrodynamics and layering, I have no issue with just using it as a DAC to enjoy music on. Microdynamics and timbre can take you a very long way, and the 2541 is proof of that. Having said that, I think I ultimately prefer the BF2's slam and macrodynamics in synergy with the Utopia, despite the earlier comments about tonal preference and incision. I have no qualms with anyone who thinks the opposite, though, and find the 2541 to be an extremely respectable midrange DAC in the grand scheme of things.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  12. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    The 2541 (loaner unit) in.

    I was ready to be disappointed after I realized its internal SE operation (as opposed to BAL op in 1521). ("Hmm, so then kinda uber 1421 I will hear?") I did note 1521 significantly better in BAL downstream. And all BAL operating dacs did sound better in my dac journey. How can I have a high hope.

    Now I feel ashamed that I thought that way. How foolish.

    Honestly, the loaner evaluation is quickly metamorphosing to something I DID NOT expect at all. It's some kind of "survival horror" now. The more hours I throw in, the more dreaded consequence I cannot help imagining -- letting my bifrost 2 go.

    I know it's too early to make statements. But I wanted to drop how much shock I got today. Some preliminary thoughts below. (kinda extension of what I posted in the profile)
    • I really don't think this needs as many warm-up hours as reported. I tried to hear this dac with the same song every three hours. Stabilization mostly done within the first 2-3 hours. Then only marginal improvements heard .. to the point I am never confident to tell them apart. Right after power on, some kind of distraction and haziness observed but disappeared reasonably fast. Considering how many bits it can handle, it's amazingly fast I think.
    • In recent years, I never liked minimum phase filters in any of my dac auditions/evaluations. I was surprised that I am not that exclusive this time around. Mixed filter (orange) and soft min-phase (lamp off; with 2x up-sampling) both were very engaging in respective ways. Will investigate this more later.
    • Completely blown away by the combination of 2541-Erish-Verite. The sound they reproduce together is what I've been thinking it should be. Total synergy can beat anything I heard to date in my own scoring rubric if not in universally acceptable ways. Also noted not that much synergy with Carbon-Hive downstream.
    • This will be very likely a rare bliss for hybridists (myself of course included) who cannot be fully convinced by either hardcore delta-sigma or extreme r2r. Dacs I like mostly belong to such a hybrid category, but I'm sure I take 2541 over anything else in the category. I will follow up with what and how I will actually end up with.
    • Most of time to me it sounds like R2R-coated DS rather than the other way. Weird.
     
  13. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    I think it's super interesting how some prefer the tonally denser Bifrost 2 and others seem to prefer the all-rounder that is the 2541. Thanks for the early impressions Vtory!

    PS, now that I own the 2541 for a longer time. I actually use either two green lights (light crossfeed and full-on minimum phase) for quick and easy HP duties, or all lights off (soft knee, no Xfeed). Those two modes are my favs. Guess I'm the only one liking the 'Green' filter :) I'm not a fan of the technically most correct linear one.
     
  14. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Experimenting filter options myself. Below is my takeaway.

    Hair splitting alert: delta mostly subtle
    • Red: probably the most high performing option. Everything sounds with more tensions. Very crisp ambiance in both positive and negative ways.
    • Orange: somewhat more euphoric and easier going. I kinda like how things are "smeared" with some unknown oily material. Great when you're tired.
    • Green: not BS at all (note: I'm coming from min-phase hates). Not bad.. but I do think it removes most of Soekris magics. Similar with orange but a little bit off balance.
    • Black: I like Bob's suggestion. This "should" be used with upconverters (to double sampling freq) or high-res media -- I couldn't test the latter though. By default, red books don't sound that good (at least worse than anything above). Ill-focused images combined with disorienting ambiance are very discernable, which all disappear when converted to 88khz or higher freq. With upconverting process, things get rather clearer and crisper. Headstage expanded a bit with a little airier feeling. I'm also surprised all these artificial improvements come in an engaging way.
    Funny enough, listening with black filter reminded me of holo spring 2 audition. Been sensing some deja-vu from the beginning. I finally figured out what it was.
     
  15. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    The mystery is solved. See this post and look at the first four measurements. Observe how the fourth has sample rate oscillation added at only 26 dB down. Enough to go over.
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Thanks yet again for your comprehensive set of measurements, objectively done, without hyperbole, theatrics, or narratives designed to incite the masses.
    |\/|
     
  17. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    [​IMG]

    Folks, this is how happiness would look like in such a small space. Synergy is just.. so magical that I heavily doubt if Jot 2 can kick in dethroning Erish. I will experiment myself later this year though.

    Anyway, that's not something I want to talk today.

    This evening I examined 2541's built-in headamp with three different loads: Verite, HD650 (stock), and Hemp. Listening notes below.
    • Was ready to poopoo. But it wasn't as negative as initially guessed.
    • I noted 2541's great digital volume was functionally very synergistic with high sensitive loads like Grado. Hemp has been very nitpicking due to its notoriously high efficiency, but 2541 enabled a stable and hassle-free experience. Sonically, 2541's amp was a little more transparent and cleaner than Magnius. But a little bit more mid-centric and too much in-your-face presentation didn't go well with Hemp after 20 minutes or so. Switching to Magnius (connected via 2541 bal outs) was more solid and resolving in lower registers.
    • Pairing with HD650 reminded me of Gilmore and heresy to some extent. Somewhere in between? I could also hear nuanced upper midrange and reduced stage depth with healthy amount of sparkles on top as bonus, but a little more positively this time around. Hd650 to me was more tolerable by nature for those aspects. Maybe I just don't have high hope with sennheiser lol. Anyway this combination was much more enjoyable and pleasing than I expected. Survived long enough to motivate myself to scribble something down. No, it's nowhere close to magical synergy witnessed in Crane Song, but not holding back too much like most of AIOs imho.
    • Unlike 650, I always look forward to very high level of perfection (to my liking) in pairing something with Verite, which resulted in immediate rejection. There were too much loss I could immediately recognize: severe loss found in dimensionality, texture, control, and treble tone. Looking bright side, it's great to re-realize that Erish did such a wonderful service in my chain. (Frankly speaking, I couldn't even connect 650 into Erish today.. as I already knew how that could destroy my happy moment with built-in amp..)
    • Perhaps it's just my placebo. But I found 4 pin XLR out was noticeably better than quarter inch one. With 650, there were more pleasing aspects than unbalanced magni -- it's also possible to be confounded by 2541-magni matching though. Suppose I only have 2541 and 650, I'd save up for the next league rather than jumping into sub-$100 products.
    Enough experiment, now I go back to the combo shown in the picture.. The immersive magic show starts again...
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
  18. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    My time with 2541 will be ending soon. Enjoying the last night with this dac, in this post, I will drop some frank thoughts about this dac.

    To begin with, TL;DR below.

    [​IMG]

    I am SERIOUS. Not joking by any means.
    Bifrost 2 will be up for sale (shoot me a pm if you're interested in buying it in..), and replaced by 2541 in foreseeable future. It's not a matter of "whether" (I should buy) any more, it already changed to "when and how" stages.

    But let me be clear about this. It's not because 2541 beats BF2 in every aspect in objectively convincing ways. Nope. Although I believe 2541 to me is non-inferior to even higher Schiits, there were a lot of personal taste consideration, which -- at face value without careful translation -- could be misleading or false positives at worst.

    So, why did I finally make up my mind toward 2541? Why could I ditch other alternatives (if any)? Here are my takes.

    • I still hear a lot of plankton, details, and dynamics with Bifrost 2. If I listen and focus on carefully, the density and amount of information were indeed toe to toe with 2541 to my ears. But it's presentation that 2541 made easy victories. 2541's presentation is downright awesome largely two fold: (1) every hearable component (including slightly rounder transient followed by quick decay, spot on tonality with a little sparkle on top, very nuanced midrange plankton, and wide and semi-wrap around head stage, etc) is very cohesive internally and things together create great harmony thus this dac doesn't overly draw attention (2) such a harmony critically well aligning with personal illusions that I am willing to be fooled.
    • Speaking of #2, let me put this way, while Bifrost 2 can resolve not too differently, I feel like I am hearing way much plankton and details with 2541. If I use the analogy of modern imaging tricks, I'd say Bifrost is standard FHD(1080p), Yggdrasil is 4k, and 2541 is DLSS 4k. This dac always responds to me with great technicalities only when they're called for -- and not so much where unconcerned. I am all fine with such fakeness and discrimination. Some may hate though.
    • For those reasons, I've been secretly thinking about diching Bifrost 2 in both ways (also considered downgrading with accepting compromises and extra cash..). First alternative was Gungnir A2. Knowing its tonality better serves for verite, I've been carefully keeping my eyes on them, but wasn't fully convinced. Then I happened to come across the second alternative, Holo Spring 2. It indeed widened my dac perspective. Using the analogy above, Spring 2 > Accuphase Vintage Pre-Power > equalized SR1a sounded like DLSS 8k with 8k-display. But that's... too much orfas-ish for my financial situations. Then I finally discovered 2541 -- more reachable than Holo and more engaging (to me) than Schiit. With all such behind story, the decision was fairly quick and straightforward.
    Now worrying about two practical concerns..
    1. Hive and carbon turn out not good pairing with 2541 in any configuration. Not that bad, but nowhere close to synergy shown with Verite. From my experience and memory, I don't want to pair with any focal open backs, either. It seems more than tonality problem as I found equalizing didn't help. May need a second dac for estats only..
    2. 2541 with soft BW filter is just too f**king addictive. How should I handle withdrawal symptoms to be haunted from tomorrow? (sigh)
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
  19. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    Great write-up. My personal fav DAC is still the holo spring 2 but financially I can't justify such an expensive component really. So I did the same and settled for the 2541 ;) I really like the tweakability in filters, x-feed and bonus none too shitty head-amp!
     
  20. damaged-goods

    damaged-goods Acquaintance

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    Great review Vtory, thanks! You had condidered to replace your Bifrost with the Ifi Zen Sig in the past, do you have a comment where this would sit in the comparision, please? Even though it's much cheaper than the 2541?
     

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