Sonic Frontiers SFD-1mk2 Vintage DAC for $750 That Stomps Most Modern DACs

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Same noise from iFi micro iDSD S/PDIF output, including AC hum. All really quiet and inaudible at well above my normal listening levels. I've sent Chris at Parts ConneXion an email and will report back when I get a reply.
     
  2. Noodlz

    Noodlz Almost "Made"

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    @gixxerwimp just checking is the Ifi connected to a noisy USB port or hub? Or a bad usb cable? I had noise out of my Ifi nano bl because of a combination of noisy usb cable and one of the laptop chargers making noise. Changing the cable and removing the charger did the trick for me as far as dac noise.
     
  3. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    From what I understand, there is no benefit to using the XLR outs from the SFD1 (the SFD2 on the other hand is better from XLR outs). So you may as well use the SE outs rather than risk issues or needing to purchase one of the converters.
     
  4. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    The noise is the same regardless of source:
    • PI2AES AES and coax (via DEQ2496, which generates no noise going to Bifrost 2)
    • micro iDSD coax, operating in internal battery power mode (no current draw from USB source), USB OTG signal from my phone
    It's also the same with 4 different amps:
    • SW51+
    • Night Blues Mini (equivalent to ZDT Jr.)
    • Cavalli Liquid Carbon v1.0 (XLR out from DAC)
    • iFi micro iDSD
     
  5. Noodlz

    Noodlz Almost "Made"

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    aw man. Ok hopefully its something small and easily fixed. I have one inbound and hoping that it will work well for me for as long as possible lol.

    @loadexfa ah yea so i hear that XLR and SE is about the same quality, which is kinda why i'd like to use the XLR in addition to the RCA so i can get the same quality into my 2 amps (Jot 2 & WA6SE). It'll work for the time being, but once i get my Daily driver DAC (modius if it ever ships), i'll need to figure out how to best get the SFD out to 2 separate amps (since the XLR slot on the jot2 will likely be taken up by the Modius). My initial thought was to use a RCA splitter to have it go into 2 units but i hear that's a terrible idea.
     
  6. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Almost "Made"

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    The noise you described reminds me of the sound of the ultraanalog DAC going bad in my parasound dac-2000 (which was also mainly localized to one channel).

    The Ultraanalog replacement from PCX sounds fine if you're wondering. It even got rid of the residual noise/hum on the quieter channel.
     
  7. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Ah, gotcha, I would use a converter or a switch box. This thread has some good switch box options.
     
  8. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I would love to give this post multiple ratings:
    • "thumbs up" for providing a possible cause for what I'm hearing
    • "thumbs down" or "❌" for my hopes that it's not the UA DAC chip
    This is good to know, thanks. Anyway, if it starts to get worse, I'll probably have to plan a trip to Canada.
     
  9. Noodlz

    Noodlz Almost "Made"

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    Thanks! will check that out!

    One more question, as this thing is MONSTER in size and i'm pretty much out of desk space, i'm thinking of setting this up on the floor, but mounted vertically (like a computer tower) so that I still have leg room and won't end up kick it all the time. Can't tell if this thing has rack ears but it doesnt look like it? the front and back panels seem to protrude out so it doesnt look like i can simply turn it on its side & put some bookends on each side..

    Would something like this work? Or any other suggestions? (assuming this would be ok for the unit)

    https://www.racksolutions.com/rack-...ENOWG0awuDoHn7_GTZTRPRfLpEUTKN0waAng_EALw_wcB

    For reference, this is what my current setup is and where im thinking of putting it. (waiting for Jot 2 / modius~)

    [​IMG]

    Lastly, my apologies if this too much about setup and not about the sound itself
     
  10. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I think you're good, as long as it's about this specific device.

    The massively thick (1/4") steel front plate sticks out a few cm on either side, kind of like rack ears, but aren't mountable. I don't see why you couldn't stand it up on its side (see note below). The specs say it's 10cm high, but I'm not sure if this is the height from the bottom of the feet to the top of the face plate (which sticks up above the chassis). 2U is 8.9 cm so I don't know if the SFD-1 chassis would fit into that Rack-to-Tower Conversion Kit. I'll try and remember to measure it when I get home.

    Note: The tube sockets are not exactly loose on my unit, but they certainly aren't very tight. I would be concerned that the tubes would gradually work themselves loose and fall out if it was stood up on its side for an extended period of time.
     
  11. A Child of the Jago

    A Child of the Jago Facebook Friend

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    Anyone here have experience with dealing with Parts Connexion - I've emailed Chris and the general info@ address a few times over the past month for some work to be done but nada - not sure if he's swamped or ignoring me.

    I have my eye on an SFD-1MK 2 in the US but I'll need the fuse changed to take the UK 240v grid here, and also to have an AES option added - on that point, anyone experienced with this DAC know if this is the sort of thing an audio specialist might be able to do (that isn't Parts Connexion) or does it require their specialist knowledge?
     
  12. Noodlz

    Noodlz Almost "Made"

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    i have not had the chance to work with PCX yet, i'm hoping that when the time comes i can get Chris to help me address / update my unit. That being said, i just got my unit in today...

    trying to avoid hype or overexaggerating, but OH. MY. GOD. this is what music is supposed to sound like. Since plugging my unit in 2 hours ago, i havent been able to take my headphones off. Excuse my ramble, but the soundstage, tone, everything is finally "right". Comparing to the schiit 4490 module card, Modi Multibit, and ifi Nano BL, the SFD is just sooo much smoother, fluid, and organic sounding. All the hard digital congestion and hard edges i felt but didnt hear before from the other devices are super apparent now.

    One particular thing to note is the gain / "hotness" of all the other DACs im / have been using. i've had to use attenuators or reduce the digital signal to avoid fatigue, but with this it just rolls right in and the levels feel just right. It doesnt make anything "soft" perse, but it removes the harsh glare / grain that i hear in the other DACs. Other DACs are like when some young buck engineers turned everything up to near red & added compressors etc to get more hype, and the SFD is like the senior old timer coming in tog rid of all the extra compressors / gains, going back to the fundamentals to mix it all down to just right.

    Also the soundstage, it's like all the mud is washed away, where background instruments that were kinda mushy, is more apparent without being up-front. Like its there if you pay attention to it now, but it doesnt draw attention to itself (which i kinda how i feel like the AKM module sounds like comparatively)

    Dynamics seems to have improved too (low vs high volume between parts of the songs seem much more fluid than the other dacs.)

    It seems to work great so far across various recording it all sounds great (listened to some Billie Elish / Ellie Goulding / Sam Smith / DMX / Jessie Reyez / Pop Smoke / , and Labrinth on Roon and it all sounds amazing) i can finally FEEEL the music again. Chills in my spine and all.

    This is with it just on for 2 hours and some amperex 6922 tubes, and some shotty chi-fi RCAs (since my mogami RCAs are too short) I do plan to eventually upgrade to the Telefunken E88CC. This Unit also does indeed have some distortion when first turnin on, but it goes away after about 30 min. I also still need to figure out how to maybe either raise the unit or put it on its side. But for now this is great~~

    Thanks again for everyone who's brought my attention to this. Ok enough ramblingAnd now back to the music~



    For reference, my chain right now is:
    Macbook > supraUSB cable to Wyrd > SupraUSB to MXU8 > bettercables Coax to SFD-1mk2 > crappy RCA to Asgard 3 | WA6SE (Sovtek 5U4G & Sylvania 6DR7) , headphone is HD580.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
  13. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I sent an email to tech@ a few days ago, and haven't heard anything back yet. I have friends and family in the area, and the Covid situation isn't great in eastern Canada. So that might be a consideration. Please report if you get any response from them.
     
  14. edwyun

    edwyun Facebook Friend

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    Chris is sometimes hit or miss. If you don't get through, try and try again. If all else fails, you can also try to call them instead. Sometimes you may get lucky, other times, they will direct you back to email.

    All you need to do is get the correct fuse and solder a jumper. Easy DIY. See post #169 for a pick of the jumpers.
     
  15. Clear Water

    Clear Water Friend

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    Just wanted to share my experience with SPDIF vs. AES with the SFD-1 mk2 (no SE upgrade).

    I went ahead and got the Neutrik impedance adapter and ran the SPDIF from an Eitr so I could take advantage of the AES input. As with many things audio, I would say that for me AES represents a different flavor rather than a clear upgrade in sound over the coax.

    AES' overall presentation is closer and makes everything sound more vivid and upfront. It really reminds me more of the Gungnir Multibit (A1 which I love and have had in my system since 2015). I think I might be hearing more clarity and detail, but at the expense of some of that liquid warmth that initially drew me to the SFD in the first place. When I first hooked up the AES I was immediately "wowed" by the technical improvements--but I soon experienced fatigue, which never happened in the month or so I had been using the coax input.

    Another thing that seems to change is the overall "shape" of the headstage. Even though it may be true that AES is objectively wider than coax, I feel the shape of the stage pushes the center imaging toward me (like you're looking at a convex mirror, if that makes sense) with peripheral images being pushed farther away. SPDIF seems to me to create the opposite effect, with the center imaging more recessed, and the sides of the stage wrapping around my head. I personally prefer the latter, because it gives me a more "immersive," "you are there" feeling. The "net" staging between these two presentations equal out in my mind because of this.

    A couple of caveats: I built my system specifically to work with the Utopia, which already has a characteristically upfront presentation. I'm sure AES would be others' preference for more laid-back setups. The other is that I listen exclusively to classical--a large percentage of my listening is from not-so-well mastered recordings from the 60s and 70s, which also tend to be aggressively forward particularly in massed strings and brass. For me the SFD-1 via coax is the sweet spot that attenuates the known weaknesses of the Utopia's presentation while maintaining enough of its strengths to make long-term listening of these recordings enjoyable.

    And lastly, I find that my impressions of gear has varied wildly from others because all parts of the chain need to be considered. So for full disclosure, my chain: JRiver (w/Oratory EQ)-->Eitr-->SFD-1 (siemens RCA)-->Stratus v2 (acme 2a3)-->Utopia.
     
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  16. silverbot01

    silverbot01 New

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    Hello, reporting in on some new adventures with my SFD-1 mkII. I decided to grab a pair of 5670W with adapters off tubedepot and did all those fun matching/testing options with them. After putting them in and powering them on (listening through Ragnarok 1 into HE1000v1 btw) all I can say is damn. It's doing things the Telefunken didn't.

    I think the telefunkens are still the most linear but I didn't get this dac to not mess with it. These NOS GE 5670Ws are an entirely different experience compared to 6922s. I'll need to do more listening but my first impressions were that I was hearing the kind of bass you hear when you step in one of those rooms at Axpona with 100k speakers in it. They aren't always in stock so if anyone wants to try them I would grab them ASAP. It's the same tube ifi/AMR puts in their equipment if any of you have experience with that. Tube depot sells them with the adapter with matching/testing options.

    @Noodlz Couldn't help but read your description of how everything changed going from your previous dacs. I gotta say I've been hearing similar differences even going from my TEAC which I still respect and use for most things. But when I want to sit down and listen to music nothing quite delivers it as naturally as the SFD. Even though I had to pay for it I still feel thankful for the experience of hearing it every time I power it on.

    Silver
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
  17. Noodlz

    Noodlz Almost "Made"

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    aw man now I really want to try putting a pair of western electric 5670 jw 2c51 tubes in. Will resist the urge tho since I’m afraid of messing with my unit considering its already finicky. I’ll likely get the telefunken first and won't do the 5670 tubes till im ready to send my unit into Parts Express for the AES upgrade / SE+ upgrades etc. (that is unless someone chimes in and assures all of us that its actually totally safe to run the 5670s in here lol)
     
  18. silverbot01

    silverbot01 New

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    I've been doing it myself, and it seems completely fine. Sounds great. You just need an adapter since the pinout is different. However, they are very similar electrically and require even less heater current (depending on the 6922 in comparison). If my experience doesn't make you feel safe about it then wait for others to try first I guess. I read the WEs are the best of them too... you're lucky to even have a pair.

    Silver
     
  19. Noodlz

    Noodlz Almost "Made"

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    quick update: so i've sorta solved my problem in terms of placing this monster. Initially i was thinking of leaning it on its side vertically, but after doing some research that seems like a bad idea (weight distributions, tube sockets, heat distribution all kinda becoming a problem), i decided to simply get a printer stand so i can lift off the ground, but still provide me some leg room without worrying about accidentally kicking it.

    I got one of these amazon printer shelf things where theres ample spacing on the bottom side. seems to fit just right (overall width is shorter than the SFD, but it sits right on top, and seems plenty stable enough.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Y9XB44R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Seems like a pretty cheap solution too, which is a plus. Now back to the music =)

    [​IMG]
     
  20. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I'm also a recent SFD-1 MK II owner. It worked great for about a week or so and then ran into an issue. I'm hoping the more knowledgeable people in the forums may have some idea of what is going on. Weird the 3 most recent SFD-1 purchases mentioned here all have issues. I guess this DAC is showing it's age.

    While listening to music the volume will cut way back, approximately 50% less of what I was just listening to and then it will come back a few seconds later. This happens every few seconds. With speakers I noticed the change in volume both lower and back up again is accompanied by a clicking noise. The same happens with headphones (I took them off to check), I didn't notice the clicking due to the headphones blocking out external noise better. There is no change in the lights on the front panel when this happens. One time the issue came up immediately, another time I was listening for about 10-15 minutes before it started happening. The clicking also happens when I'm not playing music. I realize this probably means something is dying and needs to be replaced but if I could get this repaired without waiting on shipping to Canada that would be preferred so I'm hoping folks here have some ideas.

    Brief impression notes, I was pleasantly surprised at how this holds up against the Pavane. For some music the Pavane was definitely the better choice but in other cases I liked the SFD better and it became more of a flavor preference. Unfortunately the issue showed up before I could get more detailed notes. I'm currently using Phillips tubes and will try additional options once it is repaired.
     

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