Sonoma Acoustics - New player?

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by AllanMarcus, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    I am most excited by this sort of driver being more widely available, and eventually in lowers cost systems.

    Martin Roberts from Warwick Audio said that the driver was "probably about a quarter of the cost of a decent planar magnetic driver". What would you guys estimate that as being, and how would it compare to a good dynamic's cost? Is there a possibility of a more affordable electrostatic amplifier, or given their high output voltage is it not something that would turn out well?

    Do these lower cost HPEL drivers have the potential to be (sorry to use this over-worn word) disruptive, or would it still be too costly and/or dependent on DSP?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  2. Tyll Hertsens

    Tyll Hertsens Grandpappy of the hobby - Special Friend

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    Don't know the cost, but probably not disruptive unless they make the driver itself work better. Probably a dandy gadget in some applications though.

    Actually I think the most disrutive thing they could do is start building a headphone amp for regular headphones with DSP and start making a library of headphones to compensate. If they didn't have such a bitch of driver to work with I think their digital chops would shine through.

    PLease don't quote this elsewhere.
     
  3. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    If it could work digital in, digital out, like a hardware Sonarworks-style processor, it might be interesting. I think a lot of people listening to high-end headphone rigs might prefer to bring their own DACs (and if possible amps) to the party.

    (Hey, @Hrodulf - didn't you muse out loud about using mini DSP boxes for something similar, ages ago?)
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  4. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    I listened to these for a while in a quiet room at Axpona. A comparison with the Utopias never came to mind.

    This is a closed system for the richer headphone newbie who "just wants a good system." Buy it, forget that anything else is available, you're going to be happy. I think it may succeed with that crowd since the overall tone is pleasing and it's priced fairly exclusively. For anyone who's heard the Utopia on a good amp though (or LCD4 or whatever) the 'wow' factor just isn't there, and if you already have any other gear the price proposition makes no sense.
     
  5. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  6. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Yes, and I remain as underwhelmed by the prospect of a pocket of banded-together audiospooge as I was in that second thread that you linked. Life's too short for that shit, now the market has quite unexpectedly coughed up some half-decent DAP options.

    A mobile unit is far less likely to be relevant or useful- not just because it'd be ugly and inconvenient, but that some of the headphones that you'd most want to correct for (full-sized open backed headphones) aren't really for mobile use.

    (If the Mojo has taught us nothing else, it's that trying to use portable gadgets on the desktop is never quite as satisfactory as you'd expect, the practical downsides make it tedious, too.)

    Maybe if they made a decent desktop box with S/PDIF and/or AES inputs and outputs, it'd be tempting, though. Assuming that the non-trivial matter of preparing a gigantic library of good-quality average models of various popular headphones was was taken care of, obviously... :)
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  7. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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  8. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Sure and I do use them!

    Here you go - https://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series/opendrc-di

    What many people don't realise is that in Sonarworks' case it's the headphone library that's most of the value when one purchases our plug-in or Systemwide app. Coming up with a process that yields consistent absolute measurements is extremely difficult. One is procuring the needed amount of headphones to actually do measurements, second is coming up with a correct target curve that resonates well with listeners.
     
  9. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    I feel it's relevant as it's the only all in one of this type, and most importantly can be connected to pretty much anything. Assuming the amplification and dac sections are any good I would find it an appealing simple portable solution that has a small footprint for something like the Elear. Of course the EQ requires manual adjustment.


    I would love that. But I'm guessing that it may not be financially feasible to create and maintain a truly expansive library for a single piece of hardware. Perhaps it would be for an entire lineup from an already successful manufacturer, or as a hardware product extension to something pre-existing like Sonarworks. It seems more likely that if it were to ever happen it would be by licensing a library such as Sonarworks' or possibly Innerfidelity's, though I'm guessing IFs may not be appropriate as each measurements is from a single unit. Assuming either would be open to licensing in the first place.

    How many would entertain using such a feature? Especially when a simple cable upgrade can fix all your ails ;) @Hrodulf can you comment at all on how much interest Sonarworks receives outside of mixing/mastering use?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2017
  10. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Oh I do, it's what I paid for when I bought Sonarworks ;)

    It's a little crazy that you added stuff like the Bose QC25 (which sounds awful and already has its own active nonsense too). I should really get around to trying it out with my old pair. (I mostly bought for the HD800 profile, which actually sounds pretty amazing on occasion.)

    Anyway, how hard would it be to get decent headphone correction running on that OpenDRC-DI? What would it involve, practically?
     
  11. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    There's interest that's for sure, but so far with calibration being in plug-in form it's been a real pain in the ass for hi-fi guys to use our tech. Also we haven't made much effort to market to listeners. Most of the homepage is directed to engineer type peeps. I'd say less than 10% of our clients use calibration for listening only.

    Send me or our support guys a profile you're looking to use. We have an experimental software build that will open it and poop out a .bin file for miniDSP.
     
  12. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    I got to listen to the Sonoma Model One over the weekend at SIAS 2018. Take it with a grain of salt or two, the exhibition was quite noisy and worse than your average meet conditions.

    I listened the Model One the way it was meant to be used, and by that I mean the DAC + amp + headphone, the whole nine yards. Note that Model One, like the Senn HE 1 (aka Orpheus 2), uses ESS Sabre DAC which isn't very popular around here (I'm definitely not a fan of it either). Also people who know me should know that I'm not very fond of electrostats in general and was underwhelmed by HE 1.

    I remember reading in Tyll's review that Model One lacks absolute power, so the first thing I did was crank the volume and test its limits. Indeed, at max volume I was getting sufficient SPL for most of my listening... but the problem is that when the volume know hit past 3 o'clock, the sound started to crackle. I had similar experience with some of my earlier stat setups. So realistically, at max volume before the sound becomes unbearably distorted, I wasn't getting enough SPL for my tastes. This is aggravated by the fact that I use OOYH for most of my headphone listening at home, which automatically attenuates the signal by several dB to prevent such distortion. I didn't have the OOYH on while listening to OOYH, and the sheer lack of volume was already problematic. Definitely not my cuppa tea.

    However, I'm sure here are a lot of people who don't use OOYH and/or tend to listen at lower volumes than I do, so how does it sound? Well, like all stats, bass impact and response was nothing to write home about especially when compared to my all-time favorite planar setup like Liquid Glass/Code-X. But even when compared to other electrostatic setups present in the same room, the Model One felt thin, anemic and lifeless in comparison. While I honestly had zero expectations for the SRM-T8000/SR-009 combo sitting next to it, the STAX combo surprisingly had a more favorable tonal balance, the SRM-T8000 actually made SR-009 (which is otherwise a tonally fucked headphone IMO) somewhat listenable.

    That being said, if I were forced to use stats, I would still take a BHSE/SR-007 setup over anything else.
     
  13. AppleheadMay

    AppleheadMay Friend

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    You seem to have the same idea about and problems with stats as I do.
    How did you find the power of the T8000/SR009 combo by the way, loud enough?
    I don't like OOYH though, tried it and wasn't a fan at all.
     
  14. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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  15. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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  16. netforce

    netforce MOT: Headphones.com

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    Little doubtful it will be shown in Axpona. Few months back their Usa distributor told us they weren't doing Sonoma anymore. We packed our Sonoma and sent it back.
     
  17. Bloom

    Bloom MOT: Bloom Audio

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    I spent an hour getting a demo of the APERIO at AXPONA last month. And although I was very skeptical walking into the room (especially since I was told the mouthwatering price upfront), I have to say...it was a transcendent experience. I'm sure part of it was that I was in a private room in a nice leather chair, but I have never had an experience at an audio show in which I didn't want to stop listening. The kind folks at Warwick were very gracious as I kept asking to listen to "just a couple more songs." I like the M1 a lot (despite finding them very uncomfortable), but the APERIO blows them out of the water. Vocals in particular left me blown away. It's very rare for me to have that special "I'm in the room with the musicians" feeling, and I got that here in spades. The market for a $20k+ headphone system is small for sure, but man, if you are very wealthy and want an all-in-one "best of the best" headphone setup, this is it.
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    In terms of transcendence, how much relative say to an SR009 / T2DIY or HE90 / HEV90 or T2DIY?
     
  19. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    https://bloomaudio.com

    ^if they're related to the above, maybe give them an MOT tag? Also, if they've been able to demo the gear under their "Endgame" category (still haven't seen Avengers but an asshat spoiled loads of things for me so I'm embittered) then they probably have a bit of experience with superlative gear.

    @Bloom would also be interested in a comparison to other gear you've heard, since impressions require context etc etc :p
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  20. Bloom

    Bloom MOT: Bloom Audio

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    Yes, I own Bloom Audio...just launched it this past Wednesday, actually. Let me know what the protocol is for proper IDing of myself and all that. Not here to shill, mostly to learn.

    I've heard a couple models of STAX at shows before, but only briefly, and not enough to compare directly to APERIO. Never spent any time with Orpheus. Obviously, my impressions are very limited, but I was very impressed and it's hard to say how much the $20K is "worth it" and all that. However the APERIO very handily provided me with a much, much better experience than my Utopia, Empyrean, or LCD-4z ever has (again, big price difference, but those have mostly been my reference headphones.
     

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