Sony NW-WM1Z/WM1A DAPs

Discussion in 'IEMs and Portable Gear' started by mrweirdude, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    I'm hoping for a zx3 more than a wm2a. They seriously have to stop with their antiquated ways and all their proprietary 4.4m balanced jack, etc. Please add a search function and a lag free ui. Just focus on single ended so you don't have an extra port and have a gimped port. I loved the wm1a but I hated how it was so inflexible. Want to try a different pairing? Gotta get a balanced cable for that. Want to hear a new track? Gotta buy it and download it, then load it onto the player. I know everyone wants a dap that powers headphones too, but what's a point of a dap if not for portable listening. If it was transportable, I would just lug a rme dac around in my bag lol. If the geek wave ever comes and functions well enough as a dap and dac/amp, I'll try to obtain those second hand for a cheap price.
     
  2. Grahad2

    Grahad2 Red eyes from too much anime

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    They're not giving up on the 4.4mm given how other companies are starting to use it too. It's Sony, they love their proprietary shit. They stuck with Memory Schtick too.

    Giving an extra USB-C port in addition to their WMport for charging alone would be good, but you'd never see it from Sony.
     
  3. matique

    matique New

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    I prefer the 4.4mm jack anyway, way more robust than 2.5mm jacks.
     
  4. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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    This thread seems to be barren of impressions on how FW 2.0 impacts the sounds of the player. Could @Cellist88 or anyone else please share impressions?

    There are a couple of us sitting on 1.20 and would like some public impressions before making a decision. Thanks!
     
  5. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    It doesn't*. It adds some new formats, for those who want MQA or APE. I have been using it for a while, it seems stable, no problems. They haven't changed/fixed the thing where it forgets what was playing after a sync, though.

    There are some minor quality of life changes in the UI - though I admit that I don't spend all my time interacting with it. It lives in a pocket, and plays music. Still doesn't seem to decode progressive jpeg album art, though.


    * Maybe it does for people who don't use "Direct Source", who mess with the processing, but why would you do that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  6. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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    Ugh. The head-fi thread is a train wreck that has impressions that 2.0 changes the sound in every direction - from lush and tubey to flat and analytical.
     
  7. econaut

    econaut Almost "Made"

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    I don't recognize a difference with Andromedas (and EQ).

    But I don't have trained ears as many others here have and I wasn't searching for changes.
     
  8. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Well, it's possible that they're using all sorts of processing, I suppose. I'm just going "Direct Source", then balanced to a pair of UM Martians; it sounds like the same good ol' WM1A. If there's a difference, it's not immediately obvious.

    It's possible that I have suddenly developed cloth ears, but equally HF is packed with excitable cockrockets, who do love "day and night" as well as "next level" imaginary changes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  9. drgumbybrain

    drgumbybrain Science Nut

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    The sound did changed a little bit. For me, in a better way. I tried to downgrade after several folks started to complain, and the nervosa chimed in. Maybe i was missing something? after downgrading, I finally had certain that firmware 2.0 was overall better. Specially soundstage. The system is faster and more albums had the correct tag. Using andromeda and focal utopia.
     
  10. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Mmm, may just be confirmation bias, like @Lyer25 "hearing" differences between different types of bit perfect sound driver, mind. The mind is a terrible thing to taste.

    I mean, it's possible, but I am becoming very jaded about people insisting they can hear small differences with things like this.
     
  11. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I rather doubt I have any sort of critical listening skill, mind. Couldn't reliably tell the difference between filters on the iDSD Micro I used to have, which some on here seem demonstrably able to discern the Bit-Perfect filter from the non-.

    Different DAC architectures are another thing entirely, but that's not what's being discussed here. If there are measurable differences (and there usually are), one would then have to wonder whether these differences are within the human audible range.

     
  12. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    DACs really do sound markedly different. Listen to a D/S Modi, a Modi Multibit and a Gungnir Multibit all on a decent chain, and it's three distinct flavours. Filters can be a bit more subtle and difficult, though.

    Anyway, I digress, this is a WM1x thread, we should behave.
     
  13. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Id also love some more impressions of diffs if any exist @Cellist88

    Actually, @Vansen did you pick up on a diff when going from the 1.02 to the 1.20 you now have? Or just UI improvements?

    Still waiting on 4.4 cables for andro which should arrive tonight or tomorrow. Enjoying the dap though, would like to either push the Andros in a more neutral direction or possibly try some new iems (ue18+, zeus xr deca whatever). Still a solid combo with Andros so far but a bit early yet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  14. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    @Vansen unless you have a huge favorited bookmark list, its fairly easy to go back and forth between firmware.

    My impressions are that 1.2 has a better impact, more clarity and sharper, incisive sound. A bit more airy and feels like a life concert. I thought I liked this better, and though I still prefer it, things can sound a bit one note after 2.0.

    2.0 Has a bigger soundstage that's wider and deeper. imaging is improved and gradients of dynamics are better...meaning soft sounds will softer and farther away. You get more layering and detailing but you lose a bit of clarity and the timbre doesn't feel live. Overall the sound is more laid back and sometimes not as engaging. Because of the softer sound, you lose some impact and sometimes I found the bass to sometimes be a bit too restrained. Sort of sounds akin to moving from redbook sharpness sound to the smooth DSD sound.

    It was quite easy to hear the difference in sound even on some shitty track. for example taylor swift "clean", initial percussion sounds, and the xylophone esque raindrop sounds, you can hear the difference in impact and sound presentation.

    YMMV

    Don't get scared to try swapping between the firmwares because its easily reversible. Only issue is, you'll lose your bookmark lists.

    If you update to 2.0, itll rescan your database, but you'll lose your 1.2 bookmarks

    If you don't like it, run the firmware update again, and the player will go back to 1.2. (I don't have it anymore but I"ll try to be as clear as possible) It'll come up with an database error message when you restart the player and it starts scanning. you just have to go to settings-> device settings -> reset/format player -> rebuild/rescan database....not sure if its exactly it, but its the second to last option over "reset to factory settings". Player will scan, and voila back to 1.2. No files lost.....though bookmarks are lost.

    Here are links for those who want to roll back to 1.2 after 2.0 update

    http://walkman.update.sony.net/fw/pc/WM1/NW-WM1_V1_20.exe

    http://walkman.update.sony.net/fw/pc/WM1/NW-WM1_V1_20.dmg

    @brencho As a mentioned before, try the wm1a with other earphones. I seriously think andro has scaling issues. For example you listen to a tia fourte, or u18t from the single ended port, and it easily outshines the andro on balanced. Same with the Focal clears. I don't know if its a synergy thing, but imo I feel the scaling cap is with the andromedas and not the source. Also no diff between 1.02 and 1.20..but I didn't care for 1.02 because the ui was so freaking laggy.

    Edit: all listening impressions were with Andromeda s on balanced. Also forgot to mention, there is a bit more gain with 2.0, meaning it's louder at lower #s but also had more hiss
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  15. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    @Cellist88 nice thanks man. And yah I agree. I'll try stomach can jam and listen to a bunch of iems and see what I discover as good options. Have a few I'm interested but yeah I'm pretty ignorant of the iem space, the andro has been solid for commuting and shielded me from the insane BA race ahaha
     
  16. Muse Wanderer

    Muse Wanderer Friend

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    For all it's worth the Andromedas scaled remarkably well when paired with the Yggdrasil and Ragnarok. They sounded way better than WM1A (SE) and ZX2 in technicalities apart from a mildly leaner tonality due to 3 ohm OI SE.
     
  17. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    Its a matter of perspective. Replace the andromeda in your chain for the Yggdrasil and ragnorak with something like a18t or Tia fourte, and I'm sure it'll be able to resolve more detail, have more clarity, have better seperation and have a cleaner background. Take that further and use your utopias....it'll scale more with that system. Then take it to your wooden voxativ paps...which will sound even better.


    I talk about scaling in terms of how accurately the transducer than show upstream gear.

    Its like my recent trip to a friend's house with my soekris and ECP T3. For fun, we used his shitty gaming headphones starting from the onboard computer, to the GO2A, to the Soekris Dac/Amp, Then finally soekris with the T3. Yes the shitty sennheiser gaming headphones sounded way better in terms of technicalities than before, but it still can't go past a certain performance level.

    Its like having a sony a7riii with a totl lens, then having the picture displayed on a mediocre screen. I'm sure the picure taken by the sony a7riii will still look better than the picture taken on a shitty phone camera like my s6 on the same screen. Doesn't mean the screen is doing the picture justice.

    Seeing that the andromedas didn't sound as good from the WM1A on balanced compared to other headphones/iem, I feel its not really letting the WM1A do the best it can. That said, I would not compare the WM1A or ZX2 to a Yggdrasil.

    As for the ZX2, I think its a very overhyped dap in this forum. I do think the ZX2/Andromeda pairing is indeed magical(I mean I ownt it 3 times). That being said, if you evalutate the ZX2 by itself, and plug it line out into a pair of good studio monitors, its very easy to tell its level of performance. Its very easy to hear the WM1A is a clear improvement over the ZX2 when you compare them side to side, even in SE(TRRS termination) with the andromedas.

    I'm sure marvey has said this before but....the zx2/andromeda should be evaluated as a pair.

    For me, I don't think the andromedas driven out of WM1A balanced can ever compare to a clear(even on se) or utopia running balanced of the same dap. There is a gulf in performance even when using the same source component. That's why I feel the andro has scaling problems. I feel the same way with the Clears/ECP T3 amp. I feel like a sennheiser 6XX/800/800S and utopias would scale better than the Clears on that particular amp.
     
  18. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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    "Excitable cockrockets" = one of the best phrases I've read on SBAF in a while! Well played
     
  19. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Won't get you faster transfer speeds unless the internal storage is faster than that which can be serviced by USB 2.0. Since the storage is likely specced to be "just fast enough" for the playback modes supported, I suspect you'd not seen an improvement.

    Also, USB 3.0 has non-trivial RF issues that are not present with 2.0 ... and while not necessarily an issue for raw playback (at least if it was not always-on), it'd have to be addressed somehow with, per the above, no assurance of better performance.
     
  20. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I'd agree with this.

    I noted no change in output, either SE or balanced, low or high gain, from 1.2 to 2.00 in "Direct Source" mode.

    I did try the MQA capability that was added in 2.0 and that seems to behave properly, though since it currently requires downloaded content (no USB-DAC functionality), it's not a very useful addition. In fact it's mostly "useful" as an indicator that the WM1x line will still potentially get USB-DAC functionality*.

    Buying
    MQA content is something I only did to have music I actually like in that format for general MQA-evaluation/test purposes (I'm not a fan of it, at this point, excepting that it sometimes results in better masters being available than via "pure" channels ... but that's an entirely different discussion).

    --

    *There's not enough buyable/downloadable MQA content for me to think Sony bothered implementing MQA on the WM1x players for any reason other than they intend to let those players work with the streaming services - the bulk of MQA content today is via TIDAL (where there is, relatively speaking, a LOT of it ... far more than there is, say, native DSD content anywhere else). Hence I take this as an indication that USB-DAC functionality is still in the works (it was never promised, to it'll be a pure bonus if it happens).
     

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