Source AV Meet Impressions

Discussion in 'The Meeting Place' started by purr1n, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. AMW1011

    AMW1011 Friend

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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    No idea. Maybe some revisions to the headphone? I hope that portable / answering machine DAC wasn't being used as the source.
     
  3. AMW1011

    AMW1011 Friend

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    I think that could be part of it. Hifiman were pulling the same shit Sony has been with the Z1R and forcing people to use their shitty gear to try the headphones.

    A mixture of the HE-6 and HE-K could be huge, though at $6k its a hard sell. $6000 for a headphone seems like its deeply in the territory of reconsidering life choices that made it so that you're spending $6000 on headphones instead of speakers. We will see what Fang does.

    Hell, I'd be satisfied with him re-releasing the HE-6 without the shit build quality like he said he could.
     
  4. n3rdling

    n3rdling Friend

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    Went to show off the clones and get some more impressions on them. We were in a back room that didn't get much traffic, but I think most of the people pretty active in the hobby came by to listen at some point.

    HFM Edition 6: First thing I listened to. Heard it on the HFM amp with their demo CD and then brought my own stuff later to get a better listen. Not a fan of this HP at all. The first thing I thought to myself was "Jason's ( @ohhgourami ) gonna be so disappointed." I thought this thing was gonna have tons of slam but it didn't have much for a planar. Honestly, I'm trying to think of something it did well but I can't really think of anything. The mids seemed a bit off, there was some sibilance, it was veiled, and there was major 3 blob soundstage going on. It lacked the impact of the HE6 and resolving ability/bass quality of the HEK. Soundwise I think this competes well with HPs in the $300-500 category, or just upgrade to a used HE-6.

    Sennheiser HE-1: I feel my impressions here are basically useless because the audition was so tightly controlled by Sennheiser. They played me a few songs they selected in advance and then I was able to make 2-3 requests which they'd search on Tidal for. I don't have Tidal so I have no idea what masterings were played for the songs I heard. It really bothers me when I'm not able to use my own music or at least music/masterings I'm familiar with. I heard a few others mention this problem, but the vast majority of people seemed to not take this into account at all which was a bit disappointing. For example, one of the songs was Elvis' In the Ghetto. This is an old recording and I'd wager most people auditioning have only heard this song with poor mastering quality. It was obvious that Senn was using a specific remaster that vastly improved the SQ over the original. So when people hear this song on the system, they're thinking it's all thanks to the HPs instead of realizing how much of that upgrade in sound quality is due to the far superior mastering. It's akin to sneaking in binaural tracks without acknowledgement afterwards by the listener.
    Rant aside, I really liked what I heard. The tonality was very nice and they had all the strengths stats are known for - speed, clarity, detail, effortlessness, etc. At times I thought they might have a little bit of sibilance but I'd have to listen more to be sure. They have a very intimate sound to them and seemed rolled off at the very top; think Audeze done right in this regard. My only complaint was that they were kinda closed in sounding for a top stat and lacked air. I prefer a big, airy soundstage. I'd love to hear the system with my own music one day.

    HFM Shangri-La: A bright sounding stat with a decent soundstage to it. A little bit of veil compared to top stats. I know there are lots of people who complain about old Lambdas and various other stats lacking impact, and this is that kind of sound to the extreme. There's almost no impact to be found here. FR wise I don't think I heard anything too egregious. The volume knob on the amp had lots of slack and that made it seem very cheap. It also seemed to almost soft mute the music every time I moved the stepper over a click. Overall a good HP but the price is a sick joke. Apparently Fang wants to sell this for $55,000, but you can get similar sound and knock those last two zeroes off the pricetag while doing so. Get a vintage Lambda or an Ether instead.

    MrSpeakers Ether E: I really disliked this HP the first time I heard it about a year back; I think I said it sounded like it came from Kingsound. It has been much improved since but I'm still not crazy about it. There are some definite issues Dan needs to work out before bringing this to market, the biggest being the severe membrane sticking in both channels with any change in cup air pressure. The voicing was pretty good, similar to the Ether I'd say. The biggest negatives for me were the lack of detail, sibilance, and the soundstage was retained within the confounds of the drivers while also having 3 blobs. Fans of the MrSpeakers line should give them a listen, but TBH I think sound wise they're competing more with the Lambda series than the Omega series.

    Audeze LCD-4: much better than I remember them sounding at CJ some time back. Definitely the best treble in any Audeze I've yet heard, and the soundstage isn't as claustrophobic as past models. Not much to complain about here. Still, I wouldn't pay anywhere near their asking price.


    Overall it was nice that none of the HPs I listened to had major tonal issues, which is a first.

    Good to see you all!
     
  5. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Quick impressions, then I'm off to dinner (or is that lunch? I lost track...), and then photos. :)

    Mr. Speakers' Aether stats: very promising. Only tonality problem to me was a bit of brightness in the upper mid/lower treble, usual stuff. It didn't really bother me since it decayed pretty fast, but it still stood out due to how smooth the rest of the range was. Soundstage was decent, though pretty closed-in (in comparison to something like... HD800). I'd say this was the most neutral stat at the show, right after Milos' clones if Milos has kept his clones the same. Yes, there were some soundstaging issues, and I think I used to be more critical of that in the past, but I have gotten pretty lenient lately. Soundstage be damned if tonality and listening enjoyment are good. Though it would also be cool if Dan could fix that. This is definitely shaping up to be a good contender. If that extra bit of brightness is gone, I'd wholeheartedly recommend it for those who are looking for a stat upgrade.

    HFM Shangri-La: Hm... not so bad per se, but too bright, too thin, too shouty, almost like... scratchy to me. Some songs sound okay-ish (Nat "King" Cole's The Very Thought of You), but really lacking soul. Bass was very light, too. Let's say... it ain't for me.

    Sennheiser HE-1: People keep mentioning "oh, this sounds like an e-stat version of this headphone" and so on to emphasize a technical upgrade of an e-stat headphone over a dynamic sibling. I find the HE-1 to do the opposite: it tries to be a more dynamic-sounding e-stat, but the caveat is that it also tries to keep all of the good attributes of an e-stat system. In some ways, I think Sennheiser succeeded. Tonality-wise, I think it's a bit too much like HD800 for my liking, so not very neutral. I would have preferred it sounding closer to HD580/650 (notice how I intentionally left out HD600 there), but that's just personal taste. I honestly couldn't help but be impressed by what Sennheiser has achieved with the HE-1. I fully expected it to be a "yeah, it's nice but it's not worth $55K" experience, but ya know, they actually tried and came pretty damn close. Is it worth $55K? I think to some, it is. As a statement, I think Sennheiser has made it quite clear that they're still relevant, and are still on top of the game. The tuning of the HE-1 is very bold and very deliberate here. Want it to sound like HD650? It has some of that. Want it to be HD600? It has some of that, too. Want it to be HD800? It has some of that, too, or as a whole, it's pretty damn close to HD800 on a high-end tube amp. I thought about this for a long time, and I think... Sennheiser did not want to make a perfectly neutral headphone with HE-1. They made something that is basically a combination of all of the good things (as they perceive it at least) that people love of their other headphones. I don't think I'll want one, but looking past my own tastes, I can see that at least it has achieved a technical proficiency beyond just being a nice sounding headphone. For that, my hat is off to Sennheiser.

    I won't go so far as to say the HE-1 is "an experience", but... if you get a chance, then you should give it a listen.

    My conclusion is thus: it's an impressive headphone system. It's not my cup of tea. I wouldn't buy it even if it was $5K or $10K. I'd still prefer to take, say... Utopia and a good tube amp, or Milos' clones (which are almost perfectly neutral to my ears the last few times I got to check them out) and either BHSE or Aristaeus.

    Edit: just to clarify, though it was a short audition, I got to Norah Jones' Come Away With Me with HE-1, and I think I've heard that song on pretty much every other headphone at least twice... so I'm super familiar with it. Without that, I think I'll be left with having to guess WTH the HE-1 is all about as I couldn't choose what music to listen to. The pre-selected tracks sound great with the headphone, but I wasn't at all familiar with any of them. Thanks to that song, I was able to form the above thoughts about HE-1.
     
  6. jelt2359

    jelt2359 Friend

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    Not sure if HFM is reading this, but if true this is very sad and very much off-base. @ohhgourami has been singularly responsible for Hifiman's reputation as having made an absolute TOTL headphone to go against the likes of the HD800, Utopia, and anything else that you can think of. He is Hifiman's hero, not their villain.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    HE-1 tonality is like a non-fucked / modded HD800. Take HD800, with that slight wide mid-bass bump, remove HD800's 6kHz peak / glare, add a tiny amount of 8.5k siblance, take away the exaggerated HD800 air, and voila. This voicing may not suit everyone's tastes. I prefer a slightly darker tilt, but this is absolutely fine.

    The canned recordings I was presented with were the HDtracks 24/192 Jeff Buckley Hallelujah, the Paul Simon Graceland 2011 remaster / hires, and Norah Jones (not familiar). I got Wally to play some marginal tracks I knew, like Talking Heads - This Must Be the Place (from their Best of), k.d. Lang's Constant Craving (CD version). And finally also a good recording, Joni Mitchell's Blue, which sounded like the 2009 remaster (not 100% sure).

    Slight bit of 8-9kHz sibilance, but otherwise the HE-1 was pretty spot on neutral. The k.d. Lang recording sounded bright, which is it on the CD version. The Talking Heads is mid-bassy and has some treble issues with the snare, which I heard. As @HitmanFluffy mentioned, very good level of impact and macrodynamics. Plankton and ambient shit galore on the Joni Mitchell!

    Wally mentioned that Sennheiser wasn't particularly obsessed with making super thin diaphragms. (I asked a ton of questions). Thank goodness - this was the reason why there was none of the limp-dick nonsense typically associated with stats. Sensibilities are more toward Sennheiser dynamics rather than the more ethereal Japanese STAX. The HE-1 was the highlight of the show for me. I'm sure there's more potential with a better DAC.

    P.S. The metal around the HE-1 cups serve as heatsinks because the amps are built inside the cups. High voltage MOSFETs running in Class A I gather. I doubt much power / current is needed. The metal discs on top of the tube cylinders also serve as heatsinks and vibration dampeners. I didn't get a picture of it, but it looked like the tops of the tubes stuck into some kind of pliable material just below the metal discs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  8. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    Oh ! Do you mean Sennheiser won't go nanometers ? Man I'm disappoint.

    ED6k$ being still in prototype form doesn't say much in the end. HeK seemingly had a bunch of different voicing before solidifying the way it is now.
     
  9. miceblue

    miceblue Friend

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    Heeey everyone. It was awesome meeting some of you guys at the event! I'll post some more detailed impressions later, as well as photos, but I just quickly wanted to say that I was really impressed with n3rdling's Orpheus clone. It was really articulate-sounding to me, and it didn't have the upper-midrange brightness that I don't like too much from the SR-009 (although on the Questyle CMA800P and SRM-007tII, it sounded less bright than I remember in past listening sessions).

    The HE-1 likewise sounded really articulate to me. Very nice instrument separation and imaging, not as big of a soundstage as I thought it would have, and just a very, very smooth presentation overall. My time with the HE-1 was more of a media/photo event for me than a listening one, so my listening impressions should be taken with some grains of rice. Hotel Memefornia sounded exceptionally good nonetheless. I can't listen to it on my setup any more since it doesn't sound nearly as transparent, hahaha.

    The Shangri-La, although still not my cup of tea for sound, was much less bright compared to when I heard it at RMAF last year with the HM901S source. It would have been nice to have at least one track consistent between these listening rooms, but alas, the Shangri-La setup didn't have Hotel Memefornia in their music library. Natalie Merchant's Carnival and Yes's Roundabout songs sounded pretty good to me. Kind of carrying the HE1000's floaty/airy quality in the soundstage presentation, I heard a similar thing in the Shangri-La (I can't say the same for the Edition 6 though, which sounds pretty closed-in in comparison from what I heard).

    Finally, MrSpeaker's Ether E carried a smoother sound from when I heard it at RMAF as well. It still has a midrange/upper-midrange focus, and a warm-sound overall, but that's kind of MrSpeakers' house sound signature. At RMAF it was paired on a Liquid Lightning 2, and I generally prefer its faster-sound over the Blue Hawaii in my experience.
     
  10. netforce

    netforce MOT: Headphones.com

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    Impressions from being stuck behind a table most of the day.

    Few positive points

    +Good turnout
    Lots of friends and familiar faces but also a lot of new guys coming to the event this time around even if to hear the He-1/Shangri-La
    +Nothing catastrophically bad happened
    Nothing broke, nothing went missing, computers didn't BSOD and everything went smoothly
    +Lots of new/different things
    Boo old things, yay shiny new things
    +Quiet appointment spaces
    Having a quiet space to listen to headphones? Who would of thought that was a a good idea
    +Free for all area was never really dull
    Utilized a good amount of space this event to listen or to talk
    +Large member area
    Theater room was a cool place to have members bring their own gear
    +Food
    I actually ate my dim sum before it ran out
    +Plenty of gear
    Be it stuff already in the store or gear people brought, there was never a shortage

    Few negatives in my mind

    -Ran out of tables
    Had more exhibitors than we thought, we ran out of tables and member area setup was a bit of gear on the ground
    -Missed appointments
    Few scheduled appointments missed, few people got lucky to hear He-1 without appointments
    -Window drivers
    "Please install windows drivers so we actually output sound"
    -Adapters
    Never have enough adapters when we need it and have too many when we don't need it
    -IEM tips
    Lots of cleaning and changing tips, always a nightmare

    General thoughts:
    Overall a quite successful event, pretty focused but plenty of things to do around the store so people weren't bored if they didn't have an appointment. Summer series last year started pretty well but became a tad much towards the end, lots of the same stuff and not too much new stuff. Better approach this time around having a central theme and 1 event a month. Obviously not every event can be literally a big E-stat event as plenty of effort and work went into putting this event on.

    Some things changed from the planning phase going into the setup day and then some dacs started acting up and things got mixed up a little. Saw a rise in toslink usage in people plugging in their dap to a dac and working in their music from there. Think perhaps this maybe an approach to take in the future for people who want to listen to their own music.

    Setting up all the computers was a tad of a nightmare, lots of dacs needed drivers for windows. Lots of music to add on a computer but not too much or people have no idea all the choices. Got to maintain a balance somehow, need to figure this out.

    Impressions:
    Got to hear a few things during some slow times or at the very end.

    Edition 6:
    Fully will admit I did not like it at CES, balanced or unbalanced, severely underwhelming at the time. Rather lifeless treble on the system at the time, big Hifiman amp but source I recall being the Hifiman dap. Next month I didn't listen to the latest version or different source at CanJam New York. Boss heard and strongly recommended that I check it out but never got around to it.

    Today I finally heard it for more than a few minutes and on familiar systems. Quite enjoyed them, pretty solid sounding. Don't think the treble is lifeless this time around but so hard to drive, pretty solid recommendation to use a speaker amp drive them. Moved over to gold stack and was around 3 o'clock to get it to a listenable volume. Curious how they will change towards future, He-1k v2 has been daily driver for me past week or two so kinda curious how they would stack against each other.

    HE-1:
    Heard 20 seconds of Hotel California, then they pressed the button to turn it off and I then spent 30 seconds recording a lid, tubes, and dials closing and retracting. Truly a life changing experience. Didn't book an appointment since I wanted to let attendees have all the time slots. Clock struck 6 and Sennheiser was very nice to at least let me hear just a taste. I'll have a chance to eventually hear it for a minute.

    Shangri-La:
    Heard it CanJam SoCal practically a year ago in early stage, was a bit too loud to hear it well. Fast forward to RMAF and I see the massive piece and get a chance to hear it, pretty bright and I wasn't feeling too super about it. Skip towards CES and finally a chance to actually to hear it in the Hifiman room and thought Hotel California sounded a lot better this time around, changed source from RMAF once again and the pairing sounded quite a bit better. Today open slot so I got a chance to hear in quiet little room.

    At normal to a moderate volume I still think tend to lean towards to a bright sounding headphone, quite high volumes and it became bit unbearable for sibilance. I wouldn't say I hated it, over time I could put up with it possibly but I'm not sure. Appearance wise they are a tad cool looking, but without a doubt unique.

    In summary between all I like the progress the Edition 6 has been going, the He-1 I would like to listen to it, the Shangri-La is bright e-stat to me but I do at least like how it looks.

    Pardon my ramblings, 21 hours awake and still up sorting things out. Thanks to everyone who made it out, throw suggestions out and I can share them for future events.
     
  11. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    What's up with Senn playing their own tracks for you? At CJE I had 15 minutes and could play my own CD with lots of snippets from tracks that I picked before, played from a CDP/DAC that you could also hear on another setup at the show. They also had a MacBook with Tidal hooked up to the internal DAC via USB.

    Overall seems like the impressions are similar to mine. I didn't feel that it sounded as dynamic as the HD800, though and also not as resolving. Sure, better than most stats, but no revelation.
     
  12. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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    Here's @netforce and @miceblue in action. Thanks for helping put this get together on.
     
  13. blubliss

    blubliss Friend

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    This was a really nice meet with quiet places to hear the gear. Thanks to Jason for putting on this event! Of course nice to see old friends.

    I tried something different this time which was to listen to my gear during the morning and then go to the meet later. Impressions were certainly inlfuenced by that process. Gear at home I listened to: Yggdrasil>T2>009. I listened to Steely Dan's Aja and I was actually able to listen to the same track (Deacon Blues) during all three of my appointments at the meet. In July 1978, the album (Aja) won the Grammy Award for Best Engineered Non-Classical Recording.

    In order of listening:
    Sennheiser HE-1
    They had us listen to chosen tracks first as others have mentioned and I can definitely tell the reason why. The tracks they chose all used a sennheiser microphone. The sound on those tracks was quite stunning, especially the vocals. The tracks as I recall - Jeff Buckley/Helleluijah, Norah Jones, Elvis, Paul Simon. These were all pretty amazing and as guys have already described. I will say that I am not a sabre dac fan so I thought I could hear some slight sabre characteristics which would be unpleasant over time.
    The interesting part for me came when I was able to listen to the Steely Dan track, Deacon Blues. Boy did that sound a lot worse than the other tracks and nowhere near as resolving and engaging as on my system, at least as I can recall. It was kinda muddled. Maybe something was wrong with that certain track, not sure.
    While this was the best system at the show by far, I would still never buy it. The internal DAC is a no-go for me.

    Shangri-La
    First time hearing this and to say that this was underwhelming would be an understatement. I really think that McIntosh DAC was not doing it any favors at all. The sound was muffled, dark, boring. Was able to listen to Deacon Blues again, terrible.

    Mr. Speakers e-stat
    Well he certainly had a really nice front end on this system, Chord Dave>BHSE. Despite that I thought these phones were nice but the word that comes to mind is unrefined. I would have loved to hear an 009 on the same system but I think it was smart he didn't have one in there. I understand his phones will be cheaper than the 009 so maybe in that price range these will be desirable.

    Sony digital amp/gold walkman/Utopias
    If I didn't know these were Utopias I would not have been able to tell because this Sony thing mangles the sound so badly. Dark, mushy, terrible.

    I've got the clones at home thanks to milos, listening now. Will report on these in the other thread.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  14. boynamedsue

    boynamedsue New

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    The SourceAV event allowed for some alone time (exception being the HE-1) with TOTL systems in a quiet and private room with a somewhat wide selection of songs. Its great to read impressions from veterans like Milos and Marv. I trust their evaluating ability more than mine as I lack trained ears and language to sufficiently describe my what I am hearing. Thus, my impressions are largely based on which systems I enjoyed the most (very subjective), presented in chronological order.

    Sennheiser room (HE-1): I heard this system last month at CES, but got to hear only one song (Hotel California) as I didn't have an appointment. Like my first experience, I could find no fault with the tonality, very well-balanced and a treble that seemed to extend endlessly without being fatiguing. Overall, the sound was very transparent, had great separation, detailed, and got my toes tapping; however, images were a bit thin, sound stage was a bit narrow and closed in, and they sounded "in my head" like most ordinary headphones. Given the lengendary status of their previous electrostatic system, there wasn't anything magical or mind-blowing about the sound (aside from the aesthetics of the system). This was the second time I left unimpressed.

    Headamp room (HoloAudioSpringDAC>BHSE>Stax007mk1). While I was trying to be impressed by the sound of the HE-1's, the Headamp setup just sounded "right" from the get-go. There is a special synergy between the BHSE and 007. Everytime I hear it, I get so emotionally engaged wih the music that I lose any interest in analyzing the system. The tonality of system was neutral, transparent, with right amount of detail, and amazing musicality. This along with Milos' Clone system was my favorites of the show. Its probably not just a coincidence that both systems were amped by the BHSE.

    Hifiman room (McIntoshDAC>Shangri-La). I was very impressed by the SGL at CES last month (my impressions are on the SGL headfi thread). This time around, my impressions were mixed based on the tracks I played. I listened to two Chie Amayo tracks, the first one being a live version of Tenessee Waltz. I was again blown away by the feeling of being transported to the live performance: the sound seemed to emanate from outside the headphones, simulating a speaker system, and there was a great presence to the music, capturing the atmosphere of the actual event. However, the second Chie Amayo track I listened to (can't remember name but it was not a live performance), was very sibilant and unlistenable to me. The tonality sounded a bit brighter than when I heard it at CES which may be due to the particular track or the DAC (they used Brooklyn DAC at CES). Overall, I left the demo impressed again.

    Milos room (AccuphaseCDplayer>BHSE>Clones). Milos had the clones setup in a communal room so it wasn't as quiet or private as the other demos. I was very impressed when I heard them at the SoCal SBAF meet. I was again very impressed this time around. The Clones seem to combine the strengths of both Stax 007's (musicality) and 009's (detail, transparency) and adds a bit more bass impact and openess/airiness to the sound. My impressions are mainly based on Diana Krall's "A Case of You," which is one of my favorite songs of all time and one I've heard hundreds of time. I have to say that the Milos' setup is the best I've ever heard this song. Seeing the utilarian design of the Clones, it did make me wonder how the sound would change if he added casing/grills to design (to protect the drivers?) if he were ever to take these into production. BTW, do the "Clones" deserve their own name as they seem like their own beast?

    Woo Audio room (SonyHAP-Z1ES>WooWES>Stax009/MrSpeakersElectrostatic). I own the WES and Stax 009's and swear it sounds much better in my home setup than at the meet, but this could probably be said of all other gear given meet conditions. At the meet, the Stax 009's sounded a bit darker, less musical, not as transparent/detailed, and smaller sound stage than at home with my audio-gd master 7 DAC. Despite not optimized, I did get a chance to compare the Stax 009 and MrSpeakers side by side and much preferred the Stax. The treble on the MrSpeakers didn't seem to extend as far as the Stax, almost as if there cut off point for the treble. This probably wouldn't have been noticeable if I had heard the MrSpeakers by themselves, but side by side, it was quite noticeable compared to the 009s.

    In addition to the Electrostatic rooms, I got a chance to listen to the Hifiman ED6, amped with a EF1000 and Marant SA-7 CD player. The Edition 6's seemed better controlled than at CES, the aggressive and fatiguing treble was tamed in this setup. The sound was transparent and had good attack like the original HE-6's, but with larger images. Regarding the latter, the images seemed to be disproportionately large at times and seemed to float around as opposed to them being grounded and positioned accurately on a sound stage. Also, the sound stage had a horizontal, oval shape to it and was 3-blob on certain tracks, as Milos described above.

    Overall, my two favorite system at the even was Headamp and Milos' Clones. The event was a lot of fun and was very informative to pick the brains of fellow SBAFers. I appreciate SourceAV for providing this unique opportunity to compare TOTL systems. As a local, I am so lucky they are located right in my backyard in Torrance.
     
  15. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    They should let people listen to their own CDs/rips. There are numerous 'Aja' masterings on CD. Off the top of my head:

    The most common masterings done in the 80s: Sound pretty much the same to me. Relative to the 80s UK Steve Hoffman (uncredited) version - more highs, less mids. Sounds very good to me.
    The UK Steve Hoffman (uncredited) version (on 2 different releases): Compared to the above, less highs, more mids. My personal favorite.
    The MFSL version: Needs some tasteful eq. (Steve Hoffman has said it sounds like a flat transfer of the master tape. That is not a compliment in this case.)
    1999 version - Sound is the worst I've heard. Someone thought it would be a good idea to apply heavy eq.

    I won't go on, but one could see that these sound quite different from one another. If you don't which one you are listening to, it could be really confusing when trying to judge a headphone/system. And this is just one album.
     
  16. blubliss

    blubliss Friend

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    Good point.
     
  17. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Photos.

    Shangri-La amp:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Shangri-La headphone:

    [​IMG]

    People and HE-1:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    HE-1 by itself:

    [​IMG]
     
  18. miceblue

    miceblue Friend

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    Out of curiosity, were you the one with the Leica camera at the event? The background blur on those photos is really eye-pleasing, hahaha.
     
  19. Audio Zenith

    Audio Zenith Custom Title KGB

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    Enormous THANK YOU to Jason and his team for setting up such an amazing event. Hard to imagine but there must have been a TON of work put into organization, kudos to you guys.

    This is the largest High-End audio store I have ever been to and the amount of gear on display, both loudspeakers and headphones is simply mind blowing.

    @Marvey is right, this place is a must to visit if you ever in SoCal. I understand Jason used to build recording studio's for a living and is personally responsible for a couple of famous one's. First impression, nice guy and a great host.

    We came with my friend Robert and were given listening spots back to back in all the rooms. 30 minutes of critical listening was allowed with our own music for pretty much everything on display.

    One major and very unfortunate trend becomes more and more noticeable with pretty much all the newest high end headphones: BRIGHTNESS. I want to call it HD-800 or Mercury trend, make your pick. Utopia is pretty much the only exception, but even that one as most of you know is partial. In this madness @n3rdling clones are like a breath of fresh air and I would strongly recommend those who are serious about audio give 'em a real good and careful listen, memorize it and start looking for something similar. Clones are not perfect, but the base line is there and in the right place. Will talk about them later.

    Best sound of the event, unsurprisingly was the Sennheiser HE-1, but for me it certainly had own set of issues. Main was sibilance and for me this would be a deal breaker even if all the rest is perfect. Both S and F on female vocals had issues and that was with recordings I never knew could be sibilant (heard them on hundreds of systems).

    Midrange was very smooth and resolving, no complaints there. Bass was probably the best of all the electrostats I have ever heard, except for one of the earlier prototypes of Ether E (later one's are different).

    My only complaint for the HE-1s bass is a bit less grip and sustain than what I would call perfect. Quantity and extension, speed and precision were all there but drivers couldn't hold on to the lower notes, loosing steam earier than it has the right to (reminded me of HEK).

    Aside from sibilance treble was very good, well extended and resolving. Maybe just a little sharper than perfect above 10k, making brass sound a bit more like steel.

    There was also some feel of uneasiness in the way HE-1 was playing music, contrary to Utopia for example. Focals aren't perfect, flaws are well known but sound so effortless, making you want to believe they sound correct (I guess it can be attributed to the insanely powerful motor controlling incredibly light diaphragm hanging on "invisible" suspension).

    Either way, overall HE-1 in my opinion still sounded the best of all the new cans at this event and if sibilance doesn't annoy you deserve a recommendation.

    After Senn's we heard Shangri-la. First of all, both pairs at Hi-Fiman table sounded quite different. That alone in my opinion is a sign of unbaked product and especially at this price is unacceptable. I wish these were prototypes..... .

    Next was @n3rdling clones. I heard them before, a few times at different meets and was always impressed. Will not go into detail analyzing sound qualities because they are still prototypes, Milos has great ears and surely knows all the small issues.

    One thing is for sure though, sound is very effortless and they, like Utopia's are succeeding in making you want to believe it's the truth. More work is needed for perfection but personally I would probably put these on the same page with HE-1, quite an achievement for a handmade prototype ;-).

    Mr Speakers Ether E was next. Sound reminded me of original Ether. Of which there were few examples I liked and a few I didn't. Have not heard the second pair in the other room but was told it sounded very different from one we listened.

    Aeon should probably suit those who like Sine's sound sig, but in a more comfortable form factor. Bass was surprisingly light. Don't think it's a competitor to the original Ether C. Looks are subjective but it wasn't my cup of tea and clamped a bit too tight (could probably work for those on the move).

    For edition 6 my impressions pretty much mimic those from @n3rdling. Though I was told beforehand, the Hi-Fiman amp these were hooked up to wasn't doing them any favours and I wasn't supposed to even bother listening. Maybe that's the case, not sure.

    When I got to the new Sony Z1R, Warren told me these weren't neutral and boy was he right. Two things about these blew my mind; size of the driver and how they managet getting so little bass from it, must have been quite a challenge ;-).

    It was great seeing all the friends and as always meeting new one's. William is up for a good start with those focal in-ears. Is he ready to post sound impressions?

    At @Marvey , thanks for the pic. :bow: Check out how Robert listens (on the attached image). When it's something interesting his eyes close, then if sound is good he starts touching fingertips with a thumb as if rolling a tiny ball. When sound quality is really impressive he starts doing it with both hands and that my friends I have only seen maybe once or twice. Looks like he does it subconsciously, that's a concentration and by the way I have not noticed him doing any of it at this event. I guess this means he is even more critical than I am (always trying to find myself an excuse ;-).
     

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  20. kevnin

    kevnin #facetweeting - Friend

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    This was a great event, I had a lot of fun meeting some SBAFers and listening to so many of the world's most expensive headphone setups all in one place. Big thanks to The Source AV and everyone involved in making it happen.

    Highlights of the event:

    Sennheiser HE1
    This thing is the real deal. In every aspect it was the best sound I have ever heard out of a headphone. Perfectly balanced with the highest resolution, clarity, and incredible imaging precision. Even more than any other setup it sounds like a real performance and not a headphone system. My wife listened to the Norah Jones track for a few minutes and then said "we could sell our cars and buy this."

    Although I will say that it was most impressive with the preselected demo tracks, which I'm not familiar with and part of it may be extra high recording quality. With my own track it was still the best I've heard, but the margin was smaller. After getting home I downloaded the Norah Jones song in hires from hdtracks and then my wife said she actually liked my system better (she said HE1 was too revealing of background details and mine was more musical). So I guess no HE1 for me.

    Attack of the Clones
    I was extremely impressed by @n3rdling's Orpheus clones. They basically combined the best aspects of the Stax 007 and 009, with an overall sound signature in between the two. I especially like the bass, which had excellent impact and quantity. It was not thin or rolled off like the 009 or soft and slightly bloated like the 007 tends to be.

    The rest of what I listened to in chronological order. Short impressions, not always with my own music, take with grains of salt:

    Abyss + liquid tungsten prototype
    I heard the Abyss last Canjam out of the WA5 and my impression here was the same - great bass and soundstage but the midrange just doesn't do it for me. Lacking refinement and a little recessed.

    LCD4 + liquid tungsten
    Kind of the opposite of the Abyss - great midrange but not so great at everything else. Definitely prefer the Utopia.

    Utopia on Questyle gold stack
    Good example of high-end SS sound. Clean, fast and dynamic without being hard/edgy/cold/sterile like many SS amps. Can't compete in realism with a good tube setup however, and for the price of this stack you could get a really good tube setup.

    Woo WES + 007
    Better than a Stax amp, but for the price just get a BHSE.

    HIfiman Shangrila
    Putting price aside, it did have top-notch sound quality in some aspects - clarity, speed, resolution. But it was a little lean sounding and I think more of an "artificial hifi" sound than a "real" sound. I dunno, it was hard to concentrate after hearing the HE1 right before. Taking price into consideration, um, WTF.

    Mr. Speakers Ether electrostat
    Much improved over the version I heard at last Canjam. Before I would have put it maybe at L700 level, now I think it may actually compete with the top Stax. Good bass for a stat and well balanced sound signature. Much better soundstage than last time.

    SR007/009 on BHSE, with Holo Spring dac fed by SU-1
    Finally I was able to hear and compare the 007 and 009 on a top-notch BHSE setup. The 009 has better soundstage but didn't seem better in any other area, and I prefer the tonality of the 007. The 009 is still a little thin on bass and slightly bright, and there is something a little off in the upper midrange that makes female vocals sound not quite natural. The 007 sounds very natural and the BHSE fixes the soft/bloated bass it tends to have on lesser setups. This was the only setup I was worried might give my home system a run for its money (not counting exotics like HE1), but I was happy to hear I prefer what I have and don't need to consider going any further down the stax road.

    HifiMoist Edition-$6000
    Hard to really evaluate as it was connected to a CD player with only one CD of unfamiliar audiophiley music. Compared it to the HEK on the same setup and it did sound incrementally better, like an HEK v3.
     

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