System Synergy - Special Sound

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by atomicbob, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    johnjen

    I just had to laugh.
    Enlarge the pic and it's all topped of by a ModiMB .
    It's like the least expensive except for the cables and s/w, part of the whole stack.
    Yeah reducing hum on tube gear can be 'problematic'.
    I just tested my BIG eyerrrrrnnnnn amp after its latest re-wire job, and the hum is now WAY better.
    Still a ways to go yet but round 3 is already underway.
    JJ
    johnjen, Oct 18, 2018
     
  2. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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  3. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    @atomicbob

    Priidik said:
    "Rubidium Clock --> a Modi [​IMG]
    You are an artist."


    Thank-you, it is a balance between science and art.

    Modi MB v2 firmware inferred jitter - with Eitr
    02 20180727-01 Modi MB SE inferred jitter - 7 KHz BW - Eitr.PNG
    Modi MB v2 firmware inferred jitter - with Eitr + Mutec MC-3+USB
    03 20180727-02 Modi MB SE inferred jitter - 7 KHz BW - Eitr + MC-3+.PNG
    Modi MB v2 firmware inferred jitter - with Mutec MC-3+USB + Antelope LiveClock + FS725 rubidium time reference
    04 20180727-03 Modi MB SE inferred jitter - 7 KHz BW - MC-3+ + LiveClock + FS725.PNG
    Noise floor looks lower but the trace was shifted downward by 9 dB so it would display nicely on the next screenshot. Noise floor is actually the same as the previous two measurements.

    Comparison of the three reclocking / clock management methods
    05 20180727-20 Modi MB SE inferred jitter - Full BW - comparison.PNG
    Note the blue trace has been shifted downward by 9 dB for visual clarity
    Comparison of the three at 350 Hz BW zoom
    06 20180727-30 Modi MB SE inferred jitter - 350 Hz BW - comparison.PNG
    Modi MB v2 firmware responded well to lowered phase noise of FS725 + LiveClock disciplining of MC-3+ reclocking spdif.

    This is an excellent jitter response, one few other DACs achieve, even with atomic clock disciplining.

    atomicbob, Oct 18, 201
     
  4. gefski

    gefski Facebook Friend

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    atomicbob said:
    "Nuclear ZDT Jr.
    View attachment 14592
    BOM
    View attachment 14593
    System Architecture Diagram
    View attachment 14594
    Now that I have the residual hum below audible thresholds, ZDT Jr. joins the illustrious headphone amp collection worthy of the atomic treatment. When I am really wanting to lose track of time, putting the final icing on the cake, I substitute yggdrasil A2 for the Modi MB v2.
    ..."


    Ah, the most affordable Dante file delivery yet -- just two channels and PoE power, right?

    gefski, Oct 18, 2018
     
  5. famish99

    famish99 Friend

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  6. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    @atomicbob

    gefski said:
    "Ah, the most affordable Dante file delivery yet -- just two channels and PoE power, right?"

    Correct. And easy to substitute LPS for SMPS on appropriate PoE adapter cable if desired. I used the supplied SMPS and my Noise Nuke. Worked well.

    famish99 said:
    "@atomicbob Is there a reason you don't feed the 10MHz ref clock to the Mutec directly, is its PLL performance poor?"

    Mutec MC-3+ didn't perform as well directly connected to 10 MHz reference as when the LiveClock was used to down convert 10 MHz to word clock, typically 88 KHz for me.

    atomicbob, Oct 18, 2018
     
  7. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    CAN'T FIND:
    PAGE 30
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    CONTINUING WITH PAGE 36:
     
  8. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    @earnmyturns

    msommers said:
    "@earnmyturns what dacs have you owned? I'm curious about the new Holo Spring...."

    (currently owned in bold)
    NOS:
    · Holo Spring (1) Lvl 3 KTE
    · Metrum Onyx
    · Sonnet Morpheus
    · Spring 2 KTE

    OS:


    · Bifrost MB

    · Soekris dac1541

    · Yggdrasil A2

    Spring 2 KTE is for me clearly the winner among the NOS DACs, and if I could get myself organized to compare it side-by-side with the Yggdrasil (they are at two different locations and I don't want to deal with the transportation and long re-warming), I suspect the Spring 2 would win more than lose for the music I listen to the most (small ensemble modern jazz, modern classical, instrumental world).

    Why? While Spring 2 is distinctly NOS (it has an OS mode but I've not tried it really), it has greater clarity of placement and edges for different sounds, better dynamics, better detail (micro and macro), and an overall "material" presentation, real instruments with real people, what I miss so much from live performances these covid days. Compared with it, the Spring 1 was a bit too much, sometimes a bit smeared, with a weirdly wide soundstage. The Onyx improved on that some, but lost in dynamics to the Yggdrasil, so I didn't use it as much as I thought when the Yggdrasil moved to headphone duty. The Morpheus is very engaging, but a bit slow comparatively, IMHO the Spring 2 beats it in every respect I care about. And it costs less...

    earnmyturns, Jan 23, 2021
     
  9. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    @crenca

    Inspired by @earnmyturns I am currently listening to this through:

    Bartók String Quartert #4, Heath Quartet (Harmonia Mundi 2017, 96/24 PCM digital version streaming from Qobuz) > Pi2AES > Gungnir MB A2 > ISO-MAX XLR to SE transformer > Saga OG > DNA Starlett > Focal Utopia

    Through my chain this recording is sounding a touch too reverberant and the Starlett is probably rounding off attacks more than some would like, but very nice overall.

    Modern is not for everybody though I enjoy my share. This morning I am thinking I might listen to Holst next as a kind of antithesis


    earnmyturns said:
    "Updated system synergy: Bartók String Quartert #4, Heath Quartet (Harmonia Mundi 2017, 86/24 PCM digital version)>Pi2AES>Holo Spring 2 KTE NOS>Goldpoint SA2X-O>Ec Af no feedback (Mullard 5AR4;WE 396A; RCA M-R 2A3 black plates)>ZMF Verité stabilized maple burl. The strings are so "material," especially the cello..."
    Picture25 copy.jpg
    Next up, pre-owned DSHA-3F (amorphous) arriving Monday to take the solid-state berth.

    Click to expand...

    crenca, Jan 23, 2021
     
  10. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    @earnmyturns

    crenca said:
    "Through my chain this recording is sounding a touch too reverberant and the Starlett is probably rounding off attacks more than some would like, but very nice overall."

    Interesting. Even though Verité closed have a reputation for cup reverb, that aspect did not stand out when I listened last night. But it could just be that my baseline for reverb is higher (because of headphone choice, listening to lots of ECM recordngis that have a reverb-y house style, having a somewhat reverb-y 2-channel listening room).

    earnmyturns, Jan 23, 2021
     
  11. batriq

    batriq Probably has made you smarter

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    @batriq

    Here's my latest headphone setup. I don't think this will be changing anytime soon.
    Picture26 copy.jpg

    Setup:
    - HD650 and HD600 (not shown).
    - Studio B, with EML 300B (solid plate), GE triple mica 5670, and Mullard GZ34.
    - Gungnir A2 Gen5 connected balanced-to-SE through Twin ISO 1:1.
    - Old Pioneer Elite player.

    The Gungnir was recently serviced at Schiit to replace a defectivee Gen5 card, so pobably has the latest firrmware. I did not opt to pay for the Unison upgrade due to the synergy Gen5 card. I tried the BF2 w/ Unison in this system, and while it was very engaging, the bass was less defined, and generally it was too lush. The speakers are Omega Super 7 MK2.

    If I were to change anything in this system, it would be the CD player.

    batriq, Feb 6, 2021
     
  12. farbinator

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    My favorite experience in this hobby is when I'll be sitting there listening, usually after dorking around with some EQ parameters, when all of a sudden a track or even segment of a track will catch me totally off guard sonically. Like Peter Griffin experiencing Red Bull for the first time it makes you go "whoa, synergy!". Doesn't happen that often, but I happened to catch the moment with this track called The Green Chinese Table.

    In preparation to receive the Jot2 loaner in a couple more weeks, I figured I better spend some time getting my ears tuned in to my Jot1. After spending a bunch of time fooling around with various settings on the DEQ2496 I really do have a setup I like: Pi2AES -> DEQ2496 -> Bifrost -> Jot1 -> Senn HD6XXs / Verum 1

    I think I just about got Oratory1990's EQ presets programmed in via parametric EQ and then I'll tweak that using GEQ. Unconventional maybe, I'm definitely in that phase of excessive tinkering.

    farbinator, Mar 8, 2021
     
  13. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

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    I don't have as much experience with high end gear as some have. However based on my limited experience, system synergy (and preferences) is more important than absolute technical ability of each component. I have found that the former is not nearly as price-correlated as the latter. With that preamble, here's two affordable setups that I am enjoying a lot.

    Cayin N3Pro + Verum 1 - I liked this so much that I couldn't justify keeping my BF2 + SW51+ + Auteur setup. The Verum 1 setup has a more open sound than the Auteur setup - the music breathes more lifelike than the more closed in and resonate Auteur. Both have excellent timbre. The Verum 1 does lack the last bit of details and micro dynamics of the Auteur setup, but overall my preference between the two was close enough that I couldn't justify the much higher expense (and desk space) of the Auteur setup.

    Shanling Q1 + Massdrop Plus - I usually dislike BA IEMs because of their unrealistic timbre. This setup sounds un BA to me. The warmth probably helps mask it, but it's also more punchy than I'm used to with BAs. The Plus also sound more spacious with the Q1 than I'm used to hearing them. To be sure, the detail is not great but that's less important for me on the go. When you combine the small size and great battery of the Q1, the comfort and isolation of the Plus, and their pleasing synergy together, it's a great travel setup.

    Stuff Jones, Mar 15, 2021
     
  14. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    @gixxerwimp

    farbinator said:
    "Peter Griffin experiencing Red Bull for the first time"

    In case anyone (like me) didn't get this reference ...

    504 Gateway Time-out
    nginx/1.19.5


    gixxerwimp, Mar 15, 2021
     
  15. dematted

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    @dematted

    <IMAGE>

    Spoiler: Cost/Component Breakdown

    <IMAGE>

    I have finally reached some equilibrium in my primary headphone setup, so I've decided to share it. This setup is for those that love the Auteur, but are perturbed by some of its limitations: somewhat slow transients, decay that lingers just a bit too long at times, and a lack of macrodynamic slam along with a bit too much of a "laid-back" presentation. The Soekris 2541 is meant to address the first two worries, and the ZMF Pendant the latter two. I also feel like some little things, like the choice of a harder wood for my Auteur, as well as the Eikon Suede pads many recommended here, have helped a lot.

    Since I've aimed to create synergy by having gear that covers each others weaknesses, it has something of a "goldilocks" character, and this is reflected in the choice of gear. We have, for example, the ZMF that is the least characteristically "ZMF-y" and the most neutral, an r2r dac that is said by some (often derisively) to have some delta-sigma characteristics, and a Tube amp that is ultralinear, so tending toward the less characteristically "tubey" and more "solid-state" sound. In short, I've tried to carve out something of a middle road with this gear, since I love a lot of different music and don't know if I really prioritize timbre, tonality, dynamics, or resolution. I've aimed to maximize them all, but not at the expense of the other qualities.

    As a result, I don't think this setup really "wows" in any one quality, and I don't think it would be a favorite at meets. It's more of a "slow-burn" rather than an immediately gripping experience. For me, though, this is the closest I've gotten to the sound that I want. I have the Borealis on show here as well because it provides a nice alternative to the Auteur, with a quicker, more immediate sound that lacks some of the warmth and romance of the Auteur but is fun to swap to every once in awhile. It's taken me awhile to get here, but now I feel no urge to swap around amps and dacs, and will just be trying different flavors of headphone for the foreseeable future to see what can complement my Auteur best. Thanks a lot to everyone who helped me get here - I doubt my ears would be so happy without SBAF guiding me to this wonderful gear!

    dematted, Mar 24, 2021
     
  16. batriq

    batriq Probably has made you smarter

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    batriq said:
    "Here's my latest headphone setup. I don't think this will be changing anytime soon."

    I did make a couple of changes that really elevated this system:
    -- WE 300B tubes ('05 tubes)
    -- Focal Elex
    I also changed the Mullard GZ34 (f32) to my favorite GZ34 which is the Amperex/Siemens (f31) type, but differences here--if any--are probably third or fifth order compared to the above two changes.

    The synergy between the WE300B's and the Elex is outstanding. This is the first time I enjoy a headphone setup as much as a speaker setup (it's different, and doesn't achieve the same staging, yet it's as engaging). I'm also hearing a lot more plankton and detail compared to the HD650. For exmple, I don't just hear a bass string bring plucked, I can hear the player's finger touch the string right before it's plucked.

    What I dislike about this system is that it's expensive, so really making my impressions not so useful.

    batriq, Apr 22, 2021
     
  17. ColdsnapBry

    ColdsnapBry Almost "Made"

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    Just wondering if anyone has gone down the path of finding an excellent pairing for the Aeolus, to which I can ride on your coattails. I did a search and saw one mention of LP working well with BF2. Sounds like something more neutral and dryer would be best. Also seems like most on the forum here have landed on an Auteur and have found excellent pairings with that. But hoping someone how there has put in the time with an Aeolus and can help. Thanks!

    ColdsnapBry, Apr 26, 2021
     
  18. dematted

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    ColdsnapBry said:
    "Just wondering if anyone has gone down the path of finding an excellent pairing for the Aeolus, to which I can ride on your coattails. I did a search and saw one mention of LP working well with BF2. Sounds like something more neutral and dryer would be best. Also seems like most on the forum here have landed on an Auteur and have found excellent pairings with that. But hoping someone how there has put in the time with an Aeolus and can help. Thanks!"

    I would recommend the following amps with the Aeolus:

    SW51+ with stock tubes: This is neutral and dryer, and manages to make the Aeolus just a tad leaner while improving its microdynamics and sense of nuance. Aeolus more flairful, macro-dynamic focused presentation matches well with this, in my experience.

    Valhalla 2: If you can't afford a SW51+, the Valhalla 2 ought to go nicely with the Aeolus: it should significantly expand its stage. It certainly is on the "dry" side - its even drier than SW51+, if I recall correctly.

    CTH + Linear Power Supply: This is an amp to consider. A lot of folks on SBAF loved this combo, and it is definitely on the neutral, or even bass-lite side.

    If you're willing to go solid state, I would look into the Rebel Amp or BHA-1. Though neither of those amps have been discussed that much here, they both have been received elsewhere by people whose ears I trust. I've tried the BHA-1 and the Aeolus, and the pairing is generally excellent, with a great sense of tonal balance and punchiness, though I occassionally found the microdynamics to be a little flat.

    dematted, Apr 26, 2021
     
  19. Erroneous

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    @ColdsnapBry

    Regarding system synergy for the Aeolus -

    You can have a dry DAC or you can have a dry amp, but not both. I've gone down the path of rich, slammy, dense DACs (Yggdrasil A2, Bifrost 2, Gungnir Multibit A1) while chasing all-tube amps that are extremely neutral and very linear.
    Don't go Bottlehead Crack or Feliks Echo, or warm on top of warm in my opinion.
    Some people report great things with Liquid Platinum, Lyr 3, but I think you're better off chasing something like a Haggerman Tuba if you can't get your hands on a SW51+. Ideally you'd procure a Studio Jr, but that's a different price bracket.

    Erroneous, Apr 26, 2021
     
  20. ColdsnapBry

    ColdsnapBry Almost "Made"

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    Haggerman Tuba is a very easy pickup for me, as it ships to my country for free (which is rare). I've inquired about the SW51+ to see what the cost will be. Valhalla 2 is also and easy pickup as I can have it shipped with whater DAC I chose to.

    Cool, so AMP seems straight forward then. Dry AMPS sound like the solid reccomendation here...

    Combine it with a slighlty musical DAC like a Bifrost 2 and I'm good? Any other DACS I should be looking at? Thanks so much.

    ColdsnapBry, Apr 26, 2021
     

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