That time a member continued to crap up a thread with his entitled whining

Discussion in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' started by Jozurr, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    I love schiits shit, but they had to be called out several times for things way in the past. They're a decent example now, but they have revised many products post release recently and not told people (like the Analog 2 Yggdrasil, Analog 2 Gungnir Multibit, the change of the modi to 4490, Jotunheim revisions, ect.)

    Hell, they still haven't admitted about the Gungnir Multibit.
     
  2. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Exit stage left....
    whining once about your personal "gold standard" of transparency is one way to foster discussion in search for more facts.

    Hopefully now that @zach915m has clearly defined his 97% R&D personal process, followed by only minor tweaks means you'll stop the thread crapping since your preference has been made clear, and won't change despite the facts presented herein.
     
  3. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    This is the dumbest set of complaints I’ve seen in 2018. And I’ve seen some serious dumbassery.

    “I’d rather have the crappier version ship to people than know that it’s been fixed before shipping because I didn’t want to see people talking about it during the preorder period and working to get the tuning improved because of my delicate sensibilities. For some reason I don’t like that a vendor took serious advice from senior members and fixed the tuning.”

    Edit: and now I realize Zach hasn't even placed a hold on anyone's CC and we're still getting complaints?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  4. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Friend

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    There is an obvious difference between revision of an amp/DAC and headphone. DACs and amps sound much more similar to each other, their revisions hardly changing the product in a dramatic way sonically. Headphones? Completely different ballgame. See Audeze as a great example. Even swapping the pads or front damping can change my opinion about a headphone. I am tone-oriented listener.

    Regarding Schiit:
    • Their amps kind of suck.
    • Not officially announcing an upgrade of an upgradable product (Gungnir Mutibit) sucks big time.
    • Their marketing skills sometimes I feel overshadows the actual (quality of) products. I like the way how they approach new product discussions / announcements though except for some specific cases
     
  5. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    @Magnetostatic_Tubephile - since you continued to shit up that other thread, two week ban. This isn't blogspot.asshat.com.

    It's cool to talk about these kinds of topics, but since it's a broader discussion about vendors and preferences around communication, it doesn't belong in the main thread. This is a set of complaints that a vendor is changing tuning before a headphone is released. @Jozurr kept it classy with dropping some opinions then letting the discussion continue but for some reason@Magnetostatic_Tubephile wanted to let us know how he likes his bacon in the morning just right and continued to crap up the thread.
     
  6. Dzerh

    Dzerh Friend

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    Funny thread.
    Have I missed some requirements for SBAF members? Like mandatory pre-ordering of products basing solely on reviews of pre-production articles?
     
  7. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    In general, I am a consumer advocate. Preorders seem ridiculous unless you've validated the product. In fact, I recommend most people wait for FoTM to die down and pick up products when they can be obtained for ~75% of the original price on the used market.
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    This seems to be of a case of @zach915m already having finalized the tuning between RMAF and when I received the headphones (post RMAF) and the interactions of SBAF members (who had only heard pre-production versions) with Zach clouding the issue - SBAF members being an eager bunch, truly wanting to help, willing to submit feedback, and still waiting for their production versions.

    I was confused myself.

    The man already said that I had a production unit, which I measured with the Universe pads. There is another set of pads, the Verite pads, yet to be measured. A choice of one of two (or both) pads has been a option with ZMF going back to Atticus, Eikon, etc. and maybe before that.

    Honestly, I don't know what the problem is - considering that @Hands had indicated that the Verite driver had potential, explained a few properties, but remained guarded by still not fully commenting on its sound.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    With this shitstorm of a thread and the HF shitstorm on Yggdrasil A2, why the f**k would Schiit (or Zach, or anyone else) ever want to announce anything (running changes, product improvements, etc.) ever again?

    And why the f**k do I feel like I'm reading HF?

    I am very disappointed in many of you. We need a purge. I'd rather take wretched dickheads that make the occasional pointed opinion rather than the shitstorm makers.

    <SBAF DICK MODE ON>
     
  10. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I'm pissed at Yamaha, Onkyo, Toyota, Ford, Apple, ...

    I bought my crappy Ford Fusion brand new in 2009 and guess what? Ford came up with the 2010 model the next year. f**k you Ford. Those assholes are now in model 2018 and the word on the street is that their super secret 2019 model is on it's way out.

    To be clear: If you get exactly what you paid for and things perform well, then life is good. It is unreasonable to think that products are not going to evolve and move on.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  11. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    Dont get me wrong, I understand why they wouldn't. I remember that banned poster from awhile ago that freaked out on here and discord because he bought a Yggdrasil right before the upgraded units went out and he thought he was entitled to have one. So many entitled people went nuts over it, despite this being obvious tradeoff in buying an upgradeable dac.

    That said, I disagreed with him on thinking schiit is the best example of customer communication and transparency, yet Zach somehow isn't. Schiit did changes to their product based on feedback in the past after a product came out, and he thought this somehow a better thing that what Zach does. (And I actually think Schiit fixing issues on released products is a good thing and many audio companies seem to take several generations of a single product to fix an obvious issue. I mean, it took...four to five revises of the LCD 2 to get a good one after the original LCD 2.2 prefazor?)

    Either way, my post wasn't to bash schiit as much as me tearing apart his argument.

    Edit: I realized I wasnt being clear in my last post. When I was talking about them getting called out, I was specifically referring to the amp problems that lead to headphones blowing up. Granted, that shit show was more on Jude of head-fi, then Nwavguy taking advantage of the drama to push his shit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  12. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    @ultrabike I thought Ford axed the Fusion and all other cars?
     
  13. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Ohhugh Theink Gwad!!!

    No more upgrades!
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  14. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    At least they did the upgrades and tweaking in secret before releasing it to the public.
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Since no one has said it yet, I'll be blunt. Do you guys know what Magneto's problem was really about? One that he could not articulate clearly but instead was grasping at straws?

    FAVORITISM TOWARD ZMF

    There, I said it. I hope this makes everyone happy.

    ---

    I don't know how many times I've said this: we are biased toward MoTs who are friendly with us. Putting a responsive human being behind a product to interact with SBAF members will skew opinions and perceptions. (Interactions have to be sincere too. Members here are too smart and won't be fooled by those faking sincerity for long.) I'm 150% willing to admit this and pretend it's not there. It's the very nature of human beings to be biased. I'd be more worried about the forums, magazines, news, etc. who do not admit bias. It's like the doors at the Jewish peace museum in LA. One door says prejudiced, is other says not-prejudiced. Unless you are God, you went through the wrong door if you picked not-prejudiced.

    ---

    With headphones, particularly with headphones, we have a pretty damn good set of measurements that tell us A LOT about their sound. FR, CSD, and distortion give us huge portion of the pie. And now we might even have burst responses for transients.

    No one has any right to complain about bias with subjective opinions unless they've looked at the headphones measurements first. Personally, I'd like more people to look at the measurements and try to understand them. The three measurement types (and soon a fourth) were not picked at random. They were intentionally chosen because of a good amount of correlation to the subjective experience. Measurements are the reality check of subjective opinions that may be off (bad ears) or skewed (favoritism).

    But the fact is, 98% of people DO NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE MEASUREMENTS, AND THEN BITCH ABOUT SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS BEING TOO FAVORABLE TO MOTS THAT WE HAPPEN TO LIKE. Oh, I've seen where the pageviews land...

    LOOK AT THE f'ing HEADPHONE MEASUREMENTS YOU ASSHOLES. THE MEASUREMENTS WERE THE BASIS OF CHANGSTAR AND REMAIN STILL A FOUNDATION OF SBAF. THEY SERVE AS A STRONG REALITY CHECK TO SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  16. Meh

    Meh Friend

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    Beta testing , by definition, is public and done by end users and always leads to revisions before commercial release. That's why it's done.
     
  17. direstraitsfan98

    direstraitsfan98 D2Girls v2.0

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    What did Yamaha and Onkyo do to you!
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    His problem was the appearance of a public beta test on SBAF helping ZMF to build hype. The beta test argument (along with the others) was nonsensical and random shit grabbed out of his ass in an attempt to illustrate how he felt.

    SBAF's problem is that we love giving feedback to anyone who is receptive. That's not going to stop and I would never discourage such behavior. There's no evidence Zach gave a shit (and I would not expect him to - his headphone, his vision, his voicing), other than what Hands suggested to him at RMAF, as evidently, I do have the production version of the headphone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  19. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    ^This.

    I hate all the shitposts and shitgenerators that may discourage open communications and responsive changes[1] of good developers.

    This kind of business style is not for some types of people like Jozurr or Magneto. Or they may want something more fixed and stable.. Fine. Then stick around big boys like Senn.

    Smaller manufacturers are different from big boys like Focal, Sony, or Senn. What I like for "boutique" makers is that consumers are involved in development/revision/improvement processes with lots of communications -- it's a more active role than a passive money payer. Also, we can always contact such developers (via pm or public posts) to ask about our concerns. Isn't this very high level of "transparency"? AFAIK Zach is one of the most "open" guys in this industry.

    [1] Yeah, sometimes these changes don't work. But ultimately they will result in good outcomes. At least I believe so. And that's more in line with the nature (positive side) of this hobby.

    PS. Btw, what's HF shitstorm on Yggdrasil a2? I remember Amir made some shits months ago but is there anything else? PM is ok, too.
     
  20. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Dude, f'ing punctuation.
     

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