The All Purpose Advice Thread

Not silly. I personally care about it and use it. But my ears can now notice the difference. That may not have been true 5 or 10 years ago. I don’t think it’ll be a big factor for you or any other new user.

Think of it this way. Audiophilia is kinda like air conditioning. It’s 100 F outside and you need an AC. 5000 BTUs? 8000 BTUs? 12000? Central air? Do you need to be at 68 degrees in every part of the house or is just one sweet spot at 75 degrees okay? Audio equipment after a point becomes hobbled by diminishing returns. The first $200 gets you to 76 degrees reliably. The next $200 gets you to 74. Do you care to spend $2000 more on an AC that guarantees you’ll be 68 degrees instead? That’s up to you. After a certain point you are chasing that last 1% of extra performance at immense cost.

 

@Elnrik, you had the chance to compare older USB on the Bifrost Multibit to Gen 5. Could we trouble you for input? I'm recusing myself from this line of enquiry since I lack personal experience.

But really, @Alexander, USB implementations are usually cruddy and de-crapifiers do meaningful work. Try playing a Mojo straight out of a USB port and hear the noise (not the nice kind); there's a reason I stayed on with the Micro iDSD— the built-in purifier does wonders. If what you took away is that Gen 5 stuff is just silly, well, I'd like to know what lead to that conclusion.

Frankly, you do come across as a typical Reddit objectivist. That's not necessarily bad, so long as people are happy with what they have I'm chill. What does set you apart, I think, is a willingness to question and learn, which is to your credit. One thing I dislike about hardcore objectivism is the sheer hubris and myopic conceit that all that needs to be known can already be known with a few graphs. That's a lack of scientific inquisitiveness, plain and simple.

 

Okay, thanks for all the responses.

I think I like the dark look of the HD6XX so I may buy it - I've found some brand new ones for the same price or cheaper than HD650s.

I'll be using it with a Magni 3 + Modi 2 Uber stack I suppose.

If I have some money leftover I may buy a Wyrd or Eitr for the hell of it and make it a triple-stack. Though I have a feeling it may be just a waste of money so I'm not going to fret over it much.

Edit: Yeah, let's just say I'm not a creative / right-brained type of guy. I can't help but naturally swing towards trying to find objective truths and objective meaning - this goes not only for Audiophile stuff, but my approach to most things in life. The world being all subjective and what-not can kinda drive me nuts. Someone like me just wants to establish order, and get everyone to agree on a single universal standard.

 

AFAIK the Eitr does everything the Wyrd does, and more, but the inverse is not true, so I would just get an Eitr and a coaxial cable to go with it. But you can worry about that kind of thing later. The Modi 2 + Magni 3 + HD6XX is a great stack, good choice. For your future reference if I were to later upgrade that I would focus on the DAC and not the amp. Can’t amplify what isn’t coming through on a DAC!

 

If I've learned anythig it's that well behaved simmilar drivers in same enclosures sound equally good. So basically seeing how the hd 650's and hd660's have almost identical enclosures, and the driver is not drastically different, and 660's look cooler in black, I'd also buy them if the price is the same. One thing to remember though, the only thing that will give you proper soundstage is a good room with good enough speakers in it. Headphones do clarity amazingly, but without a lot of very atm experimental tinkering, it's simply impossible to enjoy the soundstage from stereo recordings on them the way it is from speakers. And the difference between the headphones will vary from model to model, but I don't think you'll see amazingly much of an improvement there. It's just physics. What you might see in an upgrade, is more refined clarity, better bass extension, different headphones will "present" some instruments better, bring them forward, others will do that better for voices, etc etc...

But soundstage on headphones? Without a lot of specific dsp / positional audio for gaming / vr etc? Just no I'm afraid your hd 660 will be as good as it gets there. I'd like to be wrong.

It's entirelly possible that for someone, hd700 has better soundstage than hd800, or hd660 is best, it's personal. It's always bad, but the general concensus seems to be that hd800 do that really well, for example.

And also, senns hd600 series is amazing anyway. Together with shiit stack, that's really all you need for listening.
Apparently I mixed a couple of questions in my head, whatever. Those are my thoughts anyway.

 

That brings up another point actually.

Cables - where's the best place to get good cables? Coax, RCA, all that stuff. I don't have any and I'll need some. Preferably extremely short ones, since I'm doing the stack methods.

I dropped the HD660 because of this review of it from Tyll, more or less. He's goes out of his way to say he doesn't really understand what Sennheiser was trying to prove with them - they don't seem to do any better than the HD600 or HD650. In fact they seem like they're potentially worse, and cost more to boot.

Sounds like the HD650 will be discontinued soon as well. So sounds like a time to buy a HD650 or HD6XX before they get expensive due to end-of-production.

 

@Alexander

Ok. I'm several months removed from the Gen5 Bifrost Multibit, mind you. Although I do have a Gen5 Gungnir Multibit, you're asking me to relay my experience going from Non-Gen5 to Gen5 Bifrost Multibit, from memory. Pardon me, as I'm going to keep this pretty general.

Simply put, USB is shit. Gen5 makes it not shit. (Or makes it Schiit, if you rather.) The occasional issue I had was this - occasionally plugging in an additional usb device, or letting my cable management get out of whack where EMI/RFI was introduced, or numerous other things would occur which would introduce schmutz into the regular USB signal. Gen5 will pretty much clean up the schmutz. It takes a problematic and noisy interface and gets rid of many issues. On the high end of things, it has the added benefit of taking that last bit of micro-schmutz out of a meticulously put together system.

Do I think Gen5 is great? Yes. It makes USB much less worrisome. You don't have to worry about the schmutz.

Do I think it is going to take a mediocre system to the next level? No. Apply common sense liberally here, please. It's not a miracle pill. It's not resampling, EQ'ing, re-DACifying, or slathering unicorn jizz all over your headphones thereby magically changing the electrical or mechanical properties of your transducers. It just kills the schmutz.

Mediocre gear is still going to be mediocre gear with Gen5. It will just be mediocre gear without schmutz.

That's my experience with it. Enjoy.

 

Thanks for that response, I suppose that means I'll be getting an Eitr and making it a Schiit triple-stack.

I'll admit my current AMP/DAC has caused BSODs on my laptop, actually. "IRQL_Not_Less_Than_Or_Equal" as well as other things like "Header" or "Pool" something or other... but I think those may be related to my unstable computer rather than actual USB problems.

There's also been many times where it seems like my computer suddenly disables the USB 3.0 ports, and they can't be reactivated until the computer is rebooted. Usually happens after trying to plug something in. Something tells me that perhaps something is shorting the ports and the computer is disabling them in compliance with built-in safety protocols.

Do I just get cables from monoprice or something? I know cables is the topic where audiophiles are infamously mocked for believing in voodoo. Pear Cables, anyone..?

 

I respect Tyll immensly, and he's done so much for the hobby. I do agree with his point, but at least to my ears, there's no really significant difference there. It's a bit easier to power them from a smartphone (mute point), and they look a bit cooler. As I said, IF the price is the same, I see no reason not to go for the 660s. You'll probably get fresher pads (and pad age seems to be the main culprit for differences anyway). New hd650's or 660's for the same price? Completely the same thing to me.

Also for the coax (digital) cables at least, it's totally the same. You might want to match the impedance of the cable to the devices but from my exp. makes no difference. I make my own with built in isolation transformers (pulse transformers, eg. from ethernet switches). Not sure if you need or can get cables like that, but it absolutely destroys any ground loops.

For RCA's, shorter runs, solid looking cables with proper shields, or solid twisted pair. It probably doesn't matter but I wouldn't buy the cheapest worst shit. I like my cables to look and feel solid. Regardless, it's gonna be ok. You lose enormously much more of quality on the transducer anyway.

 

Well I can't find an HD660 for the same price anyway - they're all roughly $100 more.

Any opinion on the Modi 2 Multibit? Is it any better than a Modi 2 Uber, if used with USB audio?

And I wonder what company is best for audio cables then. I've seen where some company makes things like this wild looking thing specifically for the stack.

But really, far as cables go, these look fine I suppose.

 

That screams driver issue to me. If you are feeling adventurous, go into device manager and remove the USB Host Controller devices and drivers. Doing so will probably kill your keyboard and mouse, so you'll be left with a window saying you need to reboot that you can't click. Just hold your power button down until the PC turns off. Give it 5 seconds, then turn the PC back on. On boot, it will reapply the USB drivers.

Alternatively, just go get one of these: http://a.co/6Tj6Yra One of the best purchases I've made for my home rig since my 1080ti SLI upgrade.

I'm assuming you're on Windows, btw. If you're on a Mac, then you're on your own. You'll probably have to wipe the drive and reinstall the OS at the Apple Idiot Bar Genius Bar or something.

 

100$ more? hell no, go for 650 or 600 even. Even cheaper, buy used + fresh pads maybe.

That thing would look much better in silver, what were they thinking...

 

Schiit Pyst or BlueJeans cables.

As we said in the Corps, k.i.s.s. (keep it simple stupid).

I'm not calling you stupid, that's just what the saying says.

 

You should read around on this forum to find answers to questions like which DAC is better. It’s a personal thing. The Modi 2 is a delta-sigma DAC chip. This is the same kind of tech that’s in basically any audio equipment, or in your computer or phone. It’s ubiquitous because it’s cheap and gets the job done and most people can’t tell the difference anyway. The Modi Multibit uses a different technology known as R2R or resistor ladder (aka multibit). In my personal experience multibit DACs are more analog sounding, or more likely to make you feel like you’re listening to live music. It’s not a panacea or anything, but I do think it sounds more immersive (better). But there are several people on this forum that prefer delta-sigma DACs.

As for cables, I do not recommend Hosi (I think?) brand cables. That’s the cheap stuff on amazon. Schiit PYST cables are fine. The amazon basics RCA cables have been fine for me. Pricier cables that people commonly recommend are blue jeans cables. That’s the brand I got for my coax cable. But my USB and RCA cables are just from amazon basics. Or monoprice premium. Works just fine for me.

 

Yeah there's a lot of reasons I'm replacing it anyway though. I've forced Windows 10 LTSB onto a computer that shipped with Windows 7, so problems are to be expected. Aside from that, it's a laptop from 2011 and it's internal hardware (GPU, Memory, SSD) are beyond end-of-life and dying now. This is all to be expected and it's time for me to buy something else.

She did me good though. The processor - 2920XM - still pulls it's weight and then some. 16GB of 1600Mhz is still pretty good even nowadays - RAM speed being a bit slow aside. Got this from Origin PC back then.

Yeah I'm gonna buy cables just because they look better and more reliable, really. That thing looks bare and exposed and brittle, like you might snap it if you're not careful. Besides it doesn't have that cool "tubes" look that good RCA cables have.

Oh wow, I didn't notice that Schiit does their own cables. My bad.

Yeah I've also bookmarked the K.I.S.S. mod for the HD650. Not sure if I feel confident about applying it and it looks like there's some materials I'd need to buy first? But I might try it.

Welp, I suppose I know what I'm getting. The only change I might make is if I have more money, I may consider the Valhalla 2 + Bifrost. But that's delving into tube amps and I'm thinking maybe I should keep it simple and get the mainstream stack first.

I think my choice is going to be: PC --> Eitir --> Modi 2 Uber --> Magni 3 --> HD650 or HD6XX.

With the HD650/6XX modded down the road if I'm feeling confident I figure.

 

For buying cables, let me understand this stack correctly... I wanna be sure this'll work...

• From my computer to the Eitir, I need a USB A to B.
• Then, from the Eitir to the Modi 2 Uber, I need a Coax.
• Then, from the Modi 2 Uber to the Magni 3, I need RCA.
• Then, I can have my headphones connected to the Magni 3 via standard 3.5 or 6.3mm ends, right?

 

Yep.

It's a 6mm plug on the Magni 3.

3.5 w/ adapter.

 

Yes, except you will need a 3.5mm to 1/4” adapter because the output jack on the Magni 3 (and almost any single ended amp) is 1/4”.

 

Alright, well I've luckily got those 1/4" adapters at least - they tend to come with headphones.

I guess I'll need to look for Coax cables from somewhere other than Schiit, since they don't have those. But everything else I can get from Schiit.

I think I'll also get this floor wart, I'm gonna check the spec pages for the three devices to ensure it'll support them all, but it sounds like it might be a good idea to get it so that I can run the whole stack from a single PSU.

I'll probably put an electrical filter (EMI filter) between the wart and the raw power too, for filtering and the ground. I live in the rural US, the electrical can be a bit noisy and unreliable.

Thanks for all the help!

 

On diminishing returns, going from Gungnir Multibit/Mjo2 to Af/Yggdrasil A2 is more than 1% return. Going by full prices, Af(modded)/Yggdrasil A2 is roughly 270% the price of Gungnir Multibit/Af and while the performance may not be 270%, it's not 101% either.

I'm just using those particular components as they are the data points that I'm personally familiar with but for my two cents there is more to be gained than single incremental percentage points beyond mid or even upper mid fi.