The HD800 & HD800S thread

To be honest , I find val2 only lacking in slam , do you think a Loki with a bit dialed bass will improve slam and dynamics?

 

FWIW, I am currently selling a maxed out T3 on here. I don't know what shipping to Greece will cost, but feel free to PM me, maybe we can work something out.

 

About as wide but not as deep or "holographic" as valhalla 2. Tubes in Mjo2 can help a bit with stage, and the stock Mjo2 tubes with hd800 treble is a nightmare so definitely plan on getting a replacement pair (doesn't have to be super expensive).

If slam is your primary complaint, Mjo2 is absolutely more slamming than Valhalla 2. By a ton. Valhalla 2, like a lot of OTL's, have a very soft presentation, whereas Mjo2 kicks like a mule.

I have had both Mjo2 and Valhalla 2 with the HD800. I went from Mjo2 to EC ZDS, and while yes ZDS is the better amp, I still really miss that Mjo2 slam, it's quite a unique characteristic especially at it's price point.

 

I am tempted to order it from schiit eu to give it a try.
If yes then i am going to test it with the same jj6922 i have on valhalla 2 and i also have nos reflectors sitting waiting for the adapters.
If tha stage i just a little bit less deep then maybe it is worth it for the extra dynamics.
I also would like to mention that Nick T after an email suggested that the valhalla 2 is the better amp for the HD800.
May be he knows best.

 

i think the Mjolnir2's flexibility is a big factor too. You can use whatever headphones you want, really solid power, and you have LISST if you ever want to switch it up

 

I know but I am into high Z phones so I don't care about that. The only thing I have to determine if it is better than Valhalla for the HD800.

 

@Sonorus I could say a lot of things at this point, based on what others have said. I won't say most of them. I'll try and stick to what I know is fact.

1) If you are looking for Slam - the loki will not give you that. If you love the Valhalla 2 but think it lac\ks or possesses to much bass, mids, treble .... the loki can help. There is no way it can do anything but reduce dynamics in the Valhalla 2. It's targeted to the very bottom end of Schiits stacks. There is simple paring test with Schiit amps, does amp "A" fit on top of dac "B" ... the loki is targeted at the modi, magni, vali 2 crowd... not the Gungnir Multibit Valhalla crowd. No hate for that crowd, they may be wiser than those of us in the upper tiers.

2) If you are looking for slam, the MJ2 will rupture your ear drums if you don't treat it with respect ( oik maybe a bit of an exaggeration ). Especially with the LSST tubes it breaks all known acceleration rates from 0 to 11. I like to think of the MJ2 as the supercar of amps - think horsepower at the cost of comfort. I personally find it a bit exaggerated when listening to acoustic music but it makes Tiesto and the EDM crownd sound as though they were talented.

3) I heard you say the Ragnorok was to much $$. So I'm guessing that the TOTL's others are suggesting - even used - are to much. Especially given the import taxes in the EU and the "austerity" in Greece. If Schiit has the same return policty in the Greece as they do in the US, I'd say the MJ2 is worth trying. The restocking free is almost a rental fee for return, depending on shipping cost. If you do decide to go this route, I suggest burning it in 24/7 during it's trial period. It really only comes into maturity after ... may be 200 hours...

4) Probably most important. If you doubt it, don't do it. Let's be real, it's just audio. There is a whole word of things that can feed our dopamine receptors for a lot less money. There are a lot of ways to make music more "euphonic" than expensive amps. Learning to play it, seeing a band live, listening with friends, studying it's technicalities, making friends with the musicians. Every one of these things will add to the eupohoric ( ummmm euphonic ... umm I call bu775hi!t) aspect of your heaphones... and not cost you near as much as an amp. Enjoy.... don't stress... find what fits your vibe......

 

@deserat First of all i must thank you for your time and your thoughtful advice , its very much appreciated.
OK now let's make some things clear!
I am i n no way stressed and i have found my vibe years ago!
Used to play the clarinet , attended numerous live concerts and have lot's of friends and life after music listening.
I have let's say about 5000 cd's of classical music and i am just listening to the music i love.
I have a 2 channel system and headphone system according to my budget and i think that i am very happy with them.
But like all of us music lovers and if my budget permits it i am seeking for some improvement just to enjoy more and without stressing at all.
So now i have a few savings and i thought if i sell the valhalla then i can maybe make an upgrade if there is any up to 1K .
When i am listening to my modded HD800 with valhalla i get the notion that the phones can do a lot more , i feel it , i know it.
Can i achieve that with my budget? if yes why not if no is a waste of money.
So let me ask because i understand that you know - can mj2 LISST or not improve the experience while listening to CLASSICAL music?
Then i give it a try.
Here in EU return policy is different , no restocking fees but 14 days right to return the item back and be fully refunded minus shipping.
Again thank you very much for the time and the advice.

 

Have you considered the Cayin amps? There is a Cayin iHA-6 (Solid State) and the Cayin HA-1A Mk2 (Tube). Note that the Cayin HH-1A has been out for many years and was reviewed very positively by Sam Tellig of Stereophile. The Mk2 is a recently udpated version of this amp.

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2017/01/29/review-cayin-ha-1a-mk2/

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/cayin-idac-6-and-iha-6-dynamic-duo

I have not heard either of these but ones I would consider if I could not go above $1k.

 

I should check them , i think there is an official retailer in Greece.
Thank you.

 

Have to say I'm happy to be joining the HD 800 club! Fun story actually, after seeing all of Marv's impressions regarding the HD 600... I figured It was time I pick one up! Well I figured I'd swing on over to sweetwater to pick one up and I noticed they had a nice promotion for the HD 800...

An after spending a week with the LCD 2.2... there arouse an imbalance in my collection. My exciting energetic HE 4 which I intended to keep as a compliment to the LCD 2.2... continually fell short when compared against it. Rather than the two headphones working together to compliment each other and widen the range of music I could enjoy... I found the LCD 2.2 continually out resolved the HE 4... over and over and over again. Until I got to the point where the LACK of resolve from my HE got to be annoying. So that said... rather than buy the HD 600 JUST to have as a reference point... I chose to instead grab the HD 800. In doing so, I'm hoping it will prove to be the energetic spacious and almost aggressive compliment to the LCD 2.2 that I'm craving!

So far I feel that it will do exactly what I want it to, there's a nice dry edge to the stock sound signature. Very tactile just like my HE 4, unfortunately though I've only listened with my HM 901->PicoPower set up and it's been in mostly noisy environments. So I've had no time to gauge resolve and I've only grasp at the "expansive" nature of the sound stage. Thankfully though, I've yet to feel as if things are too distant or too far away! my only gripe is the lack of sub bass extension... so hopefully the SDR mod will assist with that, lessening the highs and reducing that mid bass peak should help the low bass pop just a smidgen more

On a positive note I'm really enjoying listening through the Donkey Kong Country 2 OST with this set up! I've had quite a few Ahhhh Moments with this sound track alone in the last few minuets! Mostly little positional cues that really add to the atmosphere more than anything!

At home now, starting my listening session with David Chesky's four surround voices... as stupid as it sounds I like to calibrate my headphones with optimal placement before I listen... adjusting the position on my head until the voices are where they should be. Non the less, WOWZA the HD 800's SOUND STAGE IS HUUUUUUUGE, I listen to this track like for like 60 seconds every other hour, so I'm quite familiar with it, and there's nothing special about it but the HD 800 REALLY creates a MASSIVE sense of distance and space with JUST THIS ONE dinky little track! MAN, there's echos I haven't heard before, some reflections that are new to me and everything. THIS of all tracks SUDDENLY just explodes with AHHHH Moments!!!! I guess I can say I'm REALLY happy these didn't impress me until I got them at home in my reference system with a much quieter background! All in all, I can finally see what all the hype is about!

 

Sorry I did not mean by any means to imply that you were living beyong your means. I'm simply trying to calibrate curiousity vs return. I still remember the first time I upgraded from "onboard audio" to something external. It was a Aune T1 Mkii and HD 598... compared to my computer and phone audio it was amazing. To some degree every upgrade or change in my system I've made since then has been measured against that experience. Though if I am honest that experience had the question, "Was it worth the money?" Alot of factors go into that. I recently bought a Yggdrasil... was it worth the money? To me anyway the answer to that is very different than the answer to the exact same question about my purchase of the Bottlehead Mainline. It's also different than the the question of, "Was the HD800 worth the Money?"

At their price points I expect all of these high investment items, ( the mainline is money + time ) items to carry me into the future. To be the "reference" by which I can measure other items. Are my HD800's a headphone worthy of judging my amp and DAC by? Is the Mainline an amp worth measuring my DAC and headphone by? Is the Yggdrasil worth measuring my heaphone and amp by? It's a sort of differential calculus - maybe a quadaric equation - long past any linear solution. When one adds to that any type of advice for others - well I'm afraid that the problem becomes so complex that a neural network would probably just make mush. Cost vs income, musical background vs just being cool. Chattiness vs actual interest and knowledge.

So here is what I can say based on what I know about your desires. The MJ2 will be a step up from the Valhalla 2. But understand that I've only heard the Valhalla 2 in meet conditions. I'm saying this based upon the positioning of the Schiit line and what I have heard of the Schiit line. The Asgard 2, Lyr 2, and Valhalla 2 are are pretty close to equal in "qaultiy" of sound. Each emphasises a different preference for sound qaulity, but none is really "better". The MJ2, frome what I can gather is the result of Jason listening to the feedback on sound signature of each amp and doing his best to implement it in a higher quality amp. To my ears it leaves behind the Asgard 2 ( Man I'm glad I don't own that anymore ), Improves in resolution, speed, and dynamics on the Lyr2 while being more controlling of tubes, and doesn't have much in common at all with the Valhalla 2.

I say this about the last because, the Valhalla 2 is OTL and pure tube. The tubes control the amp. OTL amps soudn good in the HD800 because most output transformers tame sound. Tubes ( in my opinion open it up ). So an OTL amp with the tube ( plus resistors ) natural output sounds less "messed with".... I've sneaking suspision that most Transformers have serious problems with Bass. With the HD800 being designed for speaker amps I feel like it benefits from listening directly to the tube with no interference is the HD800 at, at least, close to it's best.

But "best" is relative, isn't it? So.... HD800 fead by Gungnir Multibit with something in the middle. If something is Valhalla 2 vs MJ2... which is better. I'd say the V2 is more holographic while the MJ2 better represents the lifcycle of each individual note. Attack, sustain, decay, timber, are all better in the MJ2. You can tweek the sound to your liking with tubes but it's more like eq'ing than like changing the appearance of the sound stage. I have Telefunkens (NOS) and LSST. Pretty sure I'm wasting my money with the tubes, they role off the bass more than they add a sense of space, and these are tubes known for their abiltiy to represent range.

There is word I've become very curious about lately because I keep hearing it used when somebody doesn't want to sound like they are full of shit. The word is "Euphonic" which I suggest just looking up the definition for. It means, "I like how it sounds." ... so substitue "It is more euphonic", "The euphonic distortion is better", "That tube has amazing euphonics" with the words "I like it how much it lies to me." Oddly "Euphonic" is usually used in conjuction with Tubes. Not so much Solid State. Solid State is "precise" it's all about the actuall bits or sine wave, there isn't a corralary in Solid State to "Euphonic".

The MJ2 tries to give the option of adding "Euphonic" distorion by letting you play with tubes. But to my ears it's solid state amp. If it distorts anything it's in that the speed through which it moves from 5hzs to 20khz just isn't something you will ever hear through natural space. It's volume shifts aren't something you could possibly hear with all the "air" molicues distorting the sound. It's not very natural sounding. That isn't to say it isn'a amazingly precices. If you could stick your head where a microphone is in the recording, I'm pretty sure the MJ2 is giving you exactly what the microphone heard.

Have you ever sat 5 inches away from a gutair? It's amazing, but it's probably farther away from the gutair then the person playing it "intended" they were 12 to 24 inches from it themself. Despite all the techonogy and B.S. words people use to describe hifi... it comes down to... "How close does the equipement match your experience of sound?" We like what we have heard. You play an instrument. If you feel like the Vallhalla 2 is missing timbre, the MJ2 will give you that. If you feel like the Valhalla 2 is lacking space and room feel, the MJ2 will not meet your expectations. Though it may turn out that you value Timbre over Room and you just didn't know.

It's a good Amp, no dobut about that. Is it your endgame... given you are muscian... proably not. But given the choice between upgrading the HD800 and upgrading from the Valhalla 2 .... I'd repalce the Amp. The HD800 is nothing short of amazing, all these years latter.... it's still the refernce for everything else.

 

Wow that's a hell of a post.
I am amazed by your insightful writing.
I couldn't agree more it's always about personal taste at the end and everything is relative. As for me as an X musician and avid music lover my goal is to reach real life timbre within my budget. I believe that HD800 SDR is an excellent starting point worth investing into it. It is definitely a keeper as is Gungnir Multibit (end game for me) so the amp will fine tune the sound for me.
Mjolnir 2 will definitely get an audition and there is even a chance for ragnarok if I sell my 2 Ch amp. Though ragnarok will have to pass first the speakers test and if it can drive them adequately then it stays.
Concluding I have to say that I am glad for sbaf to have members like you inspiring the rest of us.

 

I personally was avoiding the Ragnarok for my HD800S due to thinking it was overkill with its ability to drive speakers. However I came to the conclusion that I would need to spend up to $3k or more to find something better for headphones and even then it may just be marginally better. There are plenty of headphone only amps close to the cost of the Ragnarok or more that do not sound any better or even as good. So I purchased it with the aim of driving my HD800S only. The very first time I heard it I played Nils Lofgren Acoustic Live. My Dad and I had been playing that recently on my Asgard 2. We immediately noticed a big improvement. The stage was wider and had more depth. I all the sudden was noticing several voices even individually from the crowd without even trying. Never really noticed the crowd much at all before much less noticing several distinct individuals from the crowd. The tone or timbre of the guitars was smoother and more liquid. Less dry yet with still more inner detail. So for headphones alone the Ragnarok is worth it to me.

My headphone amp sits next to my seat on the couch so I can control the volume while listening. On the other side of the room I have NAD separates and a pair of Paradigm Studio 100 v.2s. I decided I would go crazy and buy a pair of 28' long Kimber speaker cables and run them from my Ragnaork to my speakers. Well it drives them fully and they have never sounded better. Much of the same qualities I heard on headphones come through on the speakers. However my Paradigms are certainly not as resolving as my HD800S. That said I have gone from rarely listening to speakers to now listening to speakers about 50% of the time. Would listen to them even more if they were not so disruptive to the other 4 family members of the house. My rather good NAD separates are not being used any more. The Ragnarok just sounds better in really every way. Especially when it comes to the tone or timbre of instruments. Also the bass on the Ragnarok has more definition.

 

The Ragnarok paired quite well with the HD800 and HD800S and at its price point it gives you the slam you desire with something more... that engaging microdynamic resolving sound and deep defined bass. If you are aiming for speakers (who isn't?) it is a magnificent amp, as long as you avoid low sensitivity speakers e.g. <88db sensitivity or impedance drops below 4 ohms at any part of the FR.

 

Exactly right. Explains why it does work with my Paradigms with these specs:

Sensitivity: 88dB/2.83V/m anechoic, 91dB in-room. Impedance: 8 ohms compatible.

My NAD separates includes a 218THX amp at 225wpc. My NAD can definitely drive my Paradigms clean to a louder volume. However in my room the Ragnarok drives the Paradigms as loud as me and my room can stand clean or without harshness or collapsing of the soundstage which can happen when an amp runs out of power.

 

I already have a 2ch amp Yamaha A-S1000 which is very good but i was planing to sell it and buy
the Yamaha A-S2100 to go balanced.
Now i am also considering Ragnarok as a very good all in one solution.
My speakers are 89db 6 ohms without any drops.
But first i will have to find the Yamaha buyer.....

 

Useful to me as I currently have a pair of LCD4s and HD700s. I try to use the HD700s for music at least once every 2 weeks just to “calibrate” but it rarely lasts long...the LCD4s are just so many light years ahead it’s hard to even listen to the HD700s for long without going back. They mostly get used for TV/Film/tiny amounts of time spent playing games once in a while. They have a pretty wide soundstage which is nice for those things. I’ve been thinking for a long time of upgrading them to HD800s or 800Ss when finances allow, because I would like something that’s “different” than the LCD4s, but still, you know, listenable. The HD700s sound like Beats compared to the 4s. That might be an exaggeration, but they’re inferior in every possible way, as they should be given the price differential. Sounds like the 800S might be the way to go. I’m pretty sensitive to sibilance, harshness & high frequency spikes. Can’t stand any of that. But the extra-large soundstage, speed, separation & energetic tonality would be interesting.

 

Hey all,

I just recently got myself a pair of HD800S', but haven't yet upgraded dac / amp from my Fiio E10k that was powering my HD650's. I'm well aware than the E10k is an injustice to the 650's, let alone the 800S, but when I originally bought my 650's two years ago, I didn't read into amps or dacs at all, I just wanted to buy a pair of headphones (for music mostly ofc) and a dedicated mic for games.

My eyes are now open, and I'm looking for a dac and amp for my 800S'

I don't have a huge budget though, maxing out at about £500 (pushing to £600 if there's evidently better performance). I was hoping someone here could help me out with what would pair well with the 800S in that price range.

Apologies if I've posted in the wrong sub-forum / thread

Thanks

 

Schiit Vali 2 + Modi Multibit. You really can't do better than that at the price given.