The Mike Moffat (#2 at Schiit) Blog

Discussion in 'Schiit' started by baldr, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. Grahad2

    Grahad2 Red eyes from too much anime

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    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  2. Case

    Case Anxious Head (Formerly Wilson)

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    Something to do with compression perhaps?
     
  3. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    Initially I was leaning towards it "undoing" compression/limiting generally. Later comments makes me lean toward something like that but on transients specifically.

    (Of course all of this is based on @baldr comments as filtered through my imagination.) :)
     
  4. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    Now we know it is DSP, but I expect things will go around these lines, things like temperament and pitch, from @baldr:




     
  5. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    Man, I am behind in reading baldr's blog on Head-Fi. Those first two quotes are new to me. I have heard about the pitch thing elsewhere (and nothing to do with Schitt) but did not think about it very long. I have never heard of the temperament thing. I have thought about it a little, but I did not have a word for it. And in the second quote, it is interesting that "The Manhattan Project" is a series of components. I was picturing one component. I had read the third quote, and it influenced my speculation.

    I'm not speculating (anymore) until I catch up with baldr's blog. I guess I need to spend more time on Head-Fi and less here, for a while. :)
     
  6. baldr

    baldr Schiit-sterer

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    Nahhh, hang here also as all the above is old news - I still drop stuff there, but intend to leave other stuff here as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2017
  7. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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    It's near impossible for me to get through a high noise thread on HF nowadays, even the Schiit ones. I'm guessing from Mike's post, he'll do some sort of wrap up on here, but we'll see.
     
  8. baldr

    baldr Schiit-sterer

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    Fawwwwk -- listening to Rachy's 3rd Piano Concerto Manhattanized as we speak. The effects are so intoxicating. I cannot wait to expose some sound-sciencers to it. Anyone can pick it in an ABX. f**k 'em. It is almost like the untreated stuff hurts - worse than early digital. This is not just tease - it would be stupid for a reveal before the fact of production. The first one is planned to be cheap.

    My agony is to attempt to figure out how to pull this off in analog. Oh, Ivana - she can code in C++, she knows music theory and how it impacts mood. She's a delight to work with, and figured out how to do this in a new unit of code that stands the sonic test of MoFi Gain system stuff. What's not to like?

    When I was listening to the Dead last night I almost saw trails just like waaaaaaay back in the 60's. You'll see........................
     
  9. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    ^^ You really are a schiit stirer...:p
     
  10. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    We called them tracers in the early 70s.
     
  11. Velomane

    Velomane Acquaintance

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    Baldr the Grand Master Alchemist. Turning ones and zeroes into a state of grace!
     
  12. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    If this project really is a DSP microtuning thing it could be f'ing spectacular. Just intonation is a feeling. When all the harmonics vibrate as one. I think the one thing I value most in a transducer is a lack of resonances and intermodulation distortion and other crud so that you can reproduce this stuff better.

    There's not enough just intonation stuff around. Most or all acapella stuff is just intonation. Pretty sure this track is close to just intonation:



    By the way, if you live in NY and want to experience the power of tuning at first hand, go spend a few hours at the La Monte Young Dream House in Tribeca.
     
  13. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    Boy isn't it true how a good looking woman will always trump content. :)

    Back then, in the 60-70's, stylus setup was a 'black art' and the Decca's were not just the exception to everything else available, they were also the biggest PIA to setup correctly, mostly because they didn't have a cantilever to sight down.

    But when they were setup right, the dynamic impact that EVERYTHING had, as in ALL 'voices', was simply stunning.
    This was noticed on the leading edge of not just percussion 'voices' but EVERYTHING.
    Just don't EVER drop the cart onto the record surface as the shaft will 'recess' back up the black hole of no return.

    This leading edged dynamic impact is one of several key factors which when they all are coupled together, leads to what I experienced and termed at the time as, a CNS (Central Nervous System) tap.

    It has been my long term goal to re-create this experience, yet again, and I'm closer now than I ever have been before.

    Interesting Times In Audio Indeed.

    JJ
     
  14. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    Some more tidbits, recent this time, on Manhattan:

     
  15. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    So this device is going to tweak the tuning and the music will sound better. Amazing. So even if things aren't "out of tune" enough for us to notice, it can still be tweaked to sound better (or different)? Excuse my ignorance of music theory.
     
  16. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    IIRC Mike has also said the Schiit multibit DACs, which feature the SBCF, are designed to sound their best with music that is a recording of real instruments in a real space.

    I don't think that the Manhattan Project is just an external SBCF box though, because both Mike and Jason have talked about how big of a change in sound there is with the Manhattan Project versus without, and if it were simply an external SBCF in a box, then we'd know exactly what it would sound like, it would sound like a Schiit MB DAC.
     
  17. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    In the usual modern, equal-tempered musical scale (which we have used since second half of the 18th century) all intervals are slightly out of tune. Concert A is 440hz. The E above that ought to be 660hz but on an equal-tempered keyboard will come out at 659.25hz. Similarly the C-sharp you add to make an A major chord ought to be at 550hz but on an equal-tempered keyboard is placed at 554.37hz.

    If you actually listen to 440-550-660 all the higher harmonics are in tune with each other and it sounds righteous. If you listen to 440-554.37-659.25 then the harmonics beat and phase against each other and it sounds limp.

    Why not just tune it as 440-550-660? Well, you can, but the problem is that you have to tune not just A, C# and E but every note in the scale. On a keyboard, you can only choose one tuning for each note. If you tune some of the intervals for maximum righteousness, then some of the others will sound really bad. For total spectrum righteousness, each note should take a different tuning each time it sounds depending on the harmonic role it plays. Obviously this is not possible with a keyboard (though it is when you are singing, or playing a violin, and good musicians will do this instinctively). So you have to compromise. Equal temperament makes all intervals between notes exactly the same width. This means that all of them are a little bit out of tune, but none of them sound terrible. Well temperament (the predominant standard before equal temperament) tries to make a few intervals perfect while leaving others slightly more incorrect (so you just end up avoiding those).

    If you do this in DSP you wouldn't be restricted to one single tuning to be used throughout. You could constantly readjust the tuning based on context, like a violin player does.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  18. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    If I could give this multiple likes, I would! :bow:

    I tried reading a few of the Wikipedia articles on temperament, but got rather confused. This summary is great for us dummies :D

    Edit: Someone on HF asked about Bollywood music and @baldr said it should work. I wonder if the programming has to try and analyze the type of scale (eastern/western, etc.) in order to do it's job.
     
  19. SSL

    SSL Friend

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    To add to the discussion: the 12-tone system that common practice western music usually follows can be arrived at by starting at a single note and then tuning in perfect fifths (frequency ratio of 3:2) until you come back to a pitch of the same class - thus the "circle of fifths" that you may have heard about (note that there are 12 unique pitch classes):

    C - G - D - A - E - B - F♯/G♭ - D♭ - A♭ - E♭ - B♭ - F - C'

    This tunes every note in the scale. However, if this tuning is followed, the frequency of C' will not be a perfect integer multiple of C; the circle will not "close". Ideally, if the frequency of C were 16Hz, the frequency of C' would be 2048Hz. Equal temperament achieves this and "closes" the circle by fudging the tuning of all the notes in between so that the width of every semitone is equal.

    The most important consequence of this is that the intervals are not perfectly in tune (integer ratios). As @Garns explained above, this results in beating as the harmonics (which necessarily follow integer ratios) are not quite in tune with the fundamental pitches.
     
  20. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    So are there other 'tuning's' that yield less error on the piano?
    Such as the 432Hz instead of 440Hz as the foundation for it's series of notes?

    And it strikes me that the nature of the relationships of the harmonic structures between chords (using multiple notes which should be in resonance with each other) would also contribute in a major way to this 'error' or lack there of.

    And if all of these series of notes were all brought back into full resonance with each other, I could see where the music would be several orders of magnitude more involving and captivating, emotionally and from a body coupling to the experience POV as well.

    JJ
     

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