The Stax I thread

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by knerian, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. mark47

    mark47 New

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    Have you listened to the 009s?
    From what I read. it is a hybrid between 009 and 007mk2.
    What do you think about it?
     
  2. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    I have not heard the 009S.
     
  3. mark47

    mark47 New

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    From what I understand the 009s is a 009 fixed.
     
  4. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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    I'm in the tiny minority that dislikes the port mod (on recent 007 revisions). It didn't make much audible difference IMO, but it made the Stax fart unbearable. While the 007 normally does not fart unless I tap the ear cups, with the port blocked off, it went off all the time just with minor head movements. Luckily, it's a reversible mod.
     
  5. MellowVelo

    MellowVelo Friend

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    I'm glad to hear that some people prefer the SR-007MK2 without the mod. I'm the world's least handy person, so I generally try to stay away from modding anything on my own.

    Like Songmic, have you noticed differences in the most recent iteration of the SR-007MK2?
     
  6. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    I've heard & owned several iterations of the Mjolnir made Carbon. The CC version has better control versus the standard carbon, especially in the bass region, due to the upgraded power supply. It's immediately noticeable when you A/B them. This is an upgrade where I felt I got my money's worth.

    IMO, the 009 works better with tube amps than SS. The tubes make up for a slightly sterile profile. As to what the best tube amp is for you that's a budget question.

    I haven't heard the 009S due to general bad-mouthing of it on the boards versus the 009. This is more about saving money than about buying into hype. If 'everybody' thinks the old one's better, the used asking price of the new ones should be lower. So I'll wait and buy a used one.

    I believe the modded 007 Mk2 I have belonged to @songmic. I hear very little difference between it and the non-modded version in casual listening. I haven't done a prolonged A/B session but the difference has got to be minimal. I haven't heard any stax farts from it all, though. Now I have to check is Songmic did the mod correctly ! :eek:
     
  7. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    If you have mine, it should be SR-007A not SR-007MK2 (same sound, only difference in color). I’m sure I did the mod correctly, I had it confirmed by Spritzer himself who came up with the mod.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    I'm know you did. :) I haven't heard that the mod causes Stax farts anywhere other than from @gepardcv.

    I generally refer to the 007A and Mk2 as being interchangeable since the moving parts are the same. I have heard that the diaphragm changed on Mk2s with SZ3XXXX serials. Of course the older version is the preferred one.

    Is Stax the only headphone brand where every new version is now considered worse than the one that came before ?
     
  9. MellowVelo

    MellowVelo Friend

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    Have you heard the newest iteration of the SR-007MK2? In a previous post, @songmic said that he prefers the latest iteration of the SR-007MK2. See here:

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/the-stax-i-thread.1722/page-31#post-292176

    That said, I've heard many people agree with your sentiment that the older versions of Stax headphones are always preferred.
     
  10. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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    Serial numbers mean nothing with Stax, as they are known to be non-sequential. Roughly speaking, units manufactured from 2015 on are considered to be Mk2.5 or Mk2.9 (same thing in spite of the different numbers). There may have been a more recent update, but it has not been confirmed to my knowledge by any trusted listeners (i.e., one with experience and preferably access to units made at different times for a side-by-side comparison).

    Stax added the port to the Mk2 revision of the 007 specifically because users complained that the airtight seal caused excessive farting. The port helps vent air and reduces seal. In my view, the sound difference between Mk1 without the port and Mk2.5 with the port is pretty small. The Mk1 sounds fantastic. The Mk2.5 is pretty fantastic, too. Mk2.0, on the other hand, is a pass.
     
  11. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    Its not my sentiment, it just seems to be a general consensus on the boards.
     
  12. 3X0

    3X0 Friend

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    I'll voice a potentially unpopular opinion that the likes of the SR-007 (of whatever revision) and SR-009/S are exercises in masochism relative to the options in (ortho)dynamic headphones today, especially when navigating the minefield of electrostatic energizers that are largely overpriced and overhyped (with notable exceptions like the SRX-Plus and perhaps the T2DIY if you like to lean crazy). IME the currently available higher-end consumer electrostatic headphones just don't sound very special even out of top-flight systems, especially vis-a-vis what you can achieve from a competent dynamic/planar setup for thousands less.

    IMHO the only electrostatic setups worth toying around are situated in the Lambda range (where they aren't obscenely expensive and at least offer something interesting vs. what you can get with a similarly-priced non-ES system) or at the HE90 or SR-Omega level where you're achieving something that is genuinely unique vs. what is available today on a cost-no-object basis. The stuff in between is pretty forgettable.

    At current new/used price points I would characterize the likes of the 007 as uncompetitive when you can end up getting a modded HD 800 or modded HE-6 with a competent amp and have money left to spare vs. what it would take to drive the 007 to a level of performance worth consideration.
     
  13. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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    I broadly agree, and probably wouldn't have gone down the electrostatic rabbit hole knowing what I know now. That said, I found the experience of building DIY (electrostatic) amps highly entertaining and educational, so I do not regret it. (And the 007+Carbon really is pretty good IMO, albeit hardly a bargain.)

    Also, that said... nearly everything you say applies to headphones vs speakers. I built the $100 C-Note speaker kit pair, and coupled with a cheap class D amp from Amazon it sounds heaps better than a whole lot of very expensive headphone systems. It beats my 007+Carbon pretty handily, as well as various LCD4 and Utopia rigs. If I could use speakers given my living situation (family, neighbors), I'd likely forget headphones altogether.
     
  14. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Almost "Made"

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    I currently have three electrostatic amplification setups for my SR-007 mk1: a pair of Sowter 4342 + Pioneer M22/Topping TP20, an SRM-1mk2 and a KGSSHV carbon. Yes, the KGSSHV carbon is the best of the three, but the difference isn't nearly as large as some have made it out to be. I would be reasonably happy with the SRM-1mk2, to be honest.
     
  15. JimL

    JimL Tongues KG's hairy starfish for fun

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    There are a couple of pretty decent relatively inexpensive (i.e. less than $1000 if you DIY) electrostatic amp alternatives to the BHSE, Carbon, etc. One is the SRX-Plus mentioned above, and the other is a used SRM-T1 with constant current output mod. Both can drive the SR-007 without embarrassing either themselves or the headphones, but do involve DIY, the latter to a signficantly lesser degree.
     
  16. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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    As long as DIY is on the table, the Carbon isn't that horrifically expensive (assuming own labor costs $0). Looking at my records, the main electronics cost me about $1200 (might be more expensive now, I finished my build in 2016). I then spent a bunch on really nice casework and an RK50 volume pot. I don't regret it, but that more than doubles the cost, and some form of casing is required even for a less expensive circuit.
     
  17. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    Subjective Stax 404 LE review.

    [​IMG]

    Gear used:

    source: sft-1 cd transport AES or pc usb > Rockna wavedream Sig bal > nc400 monoblocks/EC studio > srd7 professional > 404LE
    Also briefly tested with Accuphase a70

    [​IMG]

    Reference headphone: hd800sdr


    As you can see by this relatively dead thread, SBAF does not care much for Stax, however, outside of this place, particularly on discord, there has been a resurgence in the popularity of these old Stax headphones. Claims saying they are one of the best cans ever made and even superior to good 2 channel systems.


    A discord friend kindly loaned me his 404le system for review.

    https://www.changstar.com/www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,352.0.html

    Marvs' measurements and review here ^

    Tylls' measurements: https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/StaxSR404LtdSSL0670.pdf


    The 404LE is basically a 404 with improved cable, pads, and different colour, limited to 1000 units. Apparently drivers were hand picked and cryo treated.

    [​IMG]

    Anyway.

    I don't know if the bottle neck in this chain is the 1982 srd-7pro or the 404LE, The srd7 seems to be hyped but i've been told the mark ii is better and that Mjolnir audio makes a srd7 on steroids and other energizers or amps which might push this headphone further.


    These headphones are sensitive to seal and placement. They are also sensitive to the amp they piggy back from.
    They offer 0 isolation, ambient noise leaking in is a big problem.

    Succinct impressions:
    great transient speed
    excellent clarity
    bass extension goes very deep, however there is no weight to the sub or mid bass so it sounds pretty rolled off and one note
    decay seems to fade a little prematurely
    small stage, very narrow and congested
    slight peaks in upper mids, I would not call this shouty, but I like voxativs and hd800sdr so I seem to adjust well to peaks, but overall they are bright
    treble extension can be uneven, not extending completely in places
    tone is a bit thicker and denser than other lambdas and similar to 007i
    lacking in plankton in lower midrange, macro focused with good micro

    I did a lot of listening with DIY nc400 initially, noise floor was high and there was a background greyness that I thought was an issue with the 404le, switching to my studio the problem vanished, I tried it with a friends Accuphase a70 to confirm problem was nc400 and indeed it was the only amp which exhibited these problems.

    Overall, they are a lot of fun to listen to, they can be a bit fatiguing with certain genres but can also excel with well recorded 'audiophile' type music.

    I was told these were giant slayers, however due to the compromises listed above I don't feel these are well rounded headphones. They have great clarity, macro is pushed forward and they are engaging and fun to listen to. They will become fatiguing in long sessions, uneven treble and lack of spacial info is distracting and missing last word in detail make them a harder recommendation.

    However, considering how piss poor I found l700, 009 and other Stax this has been an interesting experience as these 404le with transformer can be found for 600-800usd. I guess it depends on what you value, the clarity and upfront macro make these a lot more intense and interesting to listen to than say the hd6xx stuff but at the same time you just can't get lost in the music like you can with hd6xx due to brightness and treble issues with the 404LE.

    TLDR:
    In my Stax experience, 404LE is probably second only to 007mki (I haven't heard every sigma). They are a fair value proposition until you consider the quality speaker amplifier you will need and that they are rather rare. Then they become a harder sell.
    Lack of layering and texture in bass, uneven treble and missing lower mid info are why I personally would not settle on these. However, they are definitely better than a lot of other mid tier head-fi stuff.
     
  18. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I've been seeing these DIYish headphones mentioned in various places:

    https://nectarsound.net/

    I've kept away from e-stats because of the price and reviews of Kingsound don't make me want to try those. However at $285 I think this is worth a look.
     
  19. Smitty

    Smitty Too good for bad vodka - Friend

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    @Xecuter - Now I want to dig my 404's out of storage and give them another listen. It's been long enough that all I remember is that I didn't think that they were that great when I stepped up to a TOTL dedicated amp.
     
  20. dietwater

    dietwater Acquaintance

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    Just my opinion. The three estats I've heard (one of which I own, asterisk) - sr009, l300*, l300 Ltd, all sounded as if I had a steep high frequency roll off filter on a dac. I assume this low passing effect is what gives them an ethereal feel and lack of weight. Estats felt interesting for the first 30 mins but started getting annoying as time passed on. I'd honestly take a 30$ superlux hd562 over any of these, just for the sonic weight alone.

    Sr009,l300 Ltd was listened on a kgss hv and l300 was on a entry level stax amp. The difference between stax amps felt to be the bass extension but none of them had any sonic weight (no slam).
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020

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