The USB cable mega thread. Walking off the plank

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Dot, Oct 16, 2015.

  1. Dot

    Dot Friend

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    Admins, feel free to move this topic. But it seems there needed to be a place to talk about USB cables. So, I'm making one.

    I was as unaware and sceptical as anyone about USB cables, until I started testing and reviewing DACS.

    I have nothing invested in the race. I don't own any of the cables I have here, nor do I really give a shit.

    BUT, for the hell of it, I contacted some companies that make USB cables to give them a spin. Keep in mind, I'm coming more from the pro audio community, which is even more cynical and bullheaded than the audiophile community.

    Well, folks. USB cables make a difference. And anyone who has a system that's to a level of high resolution needs to examine first-hand how USB cables can make a difference in the sonics of your system.

    I'll put a complete list of what is here when I can sort through all the models. I have cables from Wireworld, Straight Wire, Audience, KingREx, and iFi.
     
  2. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    Can you declare a thread a mega thread when there are no replies? Here's one.

    Anyway, I like Blue Jeans and Schiit USB cables. Simple and effective. I also have a couple of AudioQuest ones that don't seem any better, but cost more.

    It seems like USB cables (and almost all cables to my crappy ears) are all equivalent as long as they have no defects, which is the only reason I'm even willing to shell out a little extra dough.

    Can't wait to hear your impressions of the various cables, though.
     
  3. antifocus

    antifocus Friend

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    I compared the LHLabs 1G usb cable with the Cabledyne Silver Reference on the basic Geek Pulse last year, and there is a small difference, it is bit like switching from the switching power supply to LPS for Pulse, the Silver Reference is more dimensional, more vivid and background separation is better, but basic GP is not that revealing and I am not confident I can pass BT.
    When I finish burning in my Pulse infinity I will try to do more comparison.
     
  4. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    Looking forward to your findings. I used a Belkin Gold cable (basic cable recommended at Stereophile) and adding a Audioquest Jitterbug seems to enhance the signal. But the Jitterbug is balky and blocks the other, adjacent USB slot on my laptop. So I got a Supra cable and am pleased at its performance. Still I need to take a hour or two to do some comparisons to discern specific differences between these cables.
     
  5. Dot

    Dot Friend

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    Yes. This will be the biggest and most constructive thread ever on USB cables. I just created it. Welcome, and thanks for jumping in.

    #1 question really is: Can USB cables make a difference? Any difference?

    And if they can: Can different USB cables make different differences?

    Everything in nature resonates. Mechanical geometry affects resonance. Materials affect signal flow and resonance. And then there is power—which USB carries. Then there is interference—of which there is much in our age of wifi, cel phone, radio waves, etc.. And there is jitter and other goblins to consider. There is interference flying through your wires and air like never before in the history of DAC-loving monkeys.

    USB does much more than just transfer data. Keep in mind, for the camp that would say, "It's just 1s and 0s." 1s and 0s are electronic pulses.

    Our music and sound systems have been reduced to a beautifully small amount of components. Almost any recorded music in the history of man is available instantly at your fingertips. And USB is fast becoming the single biggest connector interface standard in audio—both for pro audio and audiophiles.

    It's worth examining.

    Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
  6. Elysian

    Elysian Friend

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    I'm using an Acoustic Revive USB-1.0SP I'm very happy with. I was alternating between Wireworld Ultraviolet and Starlight cables before.
    http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue55/acoustic_revive.htm
    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/acousticrevive2/1.html

    I wasn't able to figure out how to setup a blind test between USB cables, but I believe I was able to hear a difference between those higher-end cables and sub-$10 stock USB cables.

    The Wireworlds have good technicality and sound a bit brighter and technical than the Acoustic Revive. The Acoustic Revive sounds a bit more earthy, natural, and a little darker than the Wireworlds. I find the Acoustic Revive easier to listen to for extended listening stretches as it does a nice job making things not sound edgy.

    I was going to try picking up an AudioQuest Diamond with DBS but after reading a lot of mixed reviews, decided to just stay with the Acoustic Revive since the feedback on it was unanimously positive around the time I picked it up.

    You can find really good discounts on used USB cables so I suggest being patient and shopping around so you won't take much of a resale hit if you decide it doesn't make any difference in your chain. It made more of a difference in my chain than I had expected (moreso than moving from copper to silver analog cables). If you're feeling the urge to spend some money finessing parts of your chain, it's worth seeing if playing around with USB cables does anything for you, but source/amp/tubes/etc. are more important (as well as getting off of MP3s; I don't know why I keep going to meets and see people playing MP3s on a chain that's worth thousands of dollars).

    Also, if you don't have a quality USB/SPDIF converter, get one. It's much more important than a pricey USB cable.
     
  7. kapanak

    kapanak Canucklehead - Friend

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    I do not really seek USB cables for sonic improvements, but I do like a well constructed cable. The AudioQuest cables that cost less than $150 per cable are all very well constructed. So are Belkin Gold ones...
     
  8. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    You will not see a difference in USB cables if your DAC re-clocks the signal and has a dedicated power supply, which is virtually all high end DACs worth buying will have. To suggest otherwise shows a lack of understanding of the technologies at play. There are multiple systems in place that prevent bit flips, and re-power the digital signal so it swings from rail to rail.

    Unless your cable is damaged, or you are in an extremely noisy environment with all sorts of electromagnetic radiation, your generic USB cable will work just as well as any other "premium" brand. Spend your money on other things. Or f**k it, stick cotton balls at one end of your headphones and hear the "smoother treble, wider soundstage, and PRAT" lol it will have a bigger effect on your sound than different USB cables.
     
  9. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

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    a good usb cable has a 90ohm impedance and overkill sheilding

    supra and ifi are both good

    not gonna say they sound better though, but it could make a difference I guess
     
  10. Dot

    Dot Friend

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    What kind of technology/ies can you school us on, George? Please enlighten us on our lack of understanding?

    What kind of system are you using? If you're up for a dick-wagging match, I can totally go there, too.

    What other USB cables have you auditioned in your system? And what are your findings?

    How old are you? What is your level of hearing and listening experience? Can you clear 16K+?

    Your reply is sort of typical of a theological EE kneejerk response.

    I'm listening.
     
  11. Dot

    Dot Friend

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    Aye, there's the rub. "Better" can be relative. To some chocolate is better. Some vanilla. And what kind of vanilla, for what kind of application? Bourbon vanilla, Bourbon Madagascar vanilla, Mexican Vanilla, Tahitian Vanilla...

    The big question is in your last sentence: Do they make a difference?

    And intially, that's as far as we need to go.

    Then the big question: If USB cables can make a difference, can different USB cables make different differences?

    And there, we're at the same place we are with headphones, DACs, guitars, music genres, artists.... what's your flavor?

    And that's where we can begin to help each other.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I do feel that USB cables make a tiny difference, but the extent of which depends on the DAC, the PC, the source, the USB interfaces, etc. For example, USB cables, at least short lengths, didn't seem to make a huge difference with the Empirical Audio Off-Ramp 5 USB to SPDIF converter.

    I've also found that good quality USB cables (Belkin Gold) sounded better than some very expensive audiophile brands. The LH cable made a difference, but that was some oddball construction that consisted of two cables that I think took power from a separate USB port. Overall the differences are not huge and even smaller than USB reclockers / power purifiers such as Wyrd, Regen, etc. which in theory shouldn't work at all.

    I've also found that cutting the +5V line of DACs with USB receivers that didn't require the +5V to improve soundstage. In terms of cables, I feel the shorter the length the better (less inherent color of the cable.)
     
  13. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    It's not theology, it's proven science. Any noise during the physical transmission over USB will be virtually eliminated when your DAC re-clocks the signal going into the IC which by the way, would be getting it's power from a properly treated PSU inside your DAC. What noise are you claiming different USB cables are eliminating? The effects of a different USB cable will be in proportion to the effects of environment temperature, and shaking the DAC around to get the electrons all riled up. The effects will be so minimal you will not be able to tell a difference.

    I have tested the optical and USB inputs to my Oppo HA-1, fed into my HD800s through the balanced outputs. The sound is virtually indistinguishable. The only reason I use the USB input is so I can play higher than 96 kHz sample rate files. Also USB is re-clocked which makes me feel better about myself and pretend the audio sounds better.
     
  14. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

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    the biggest issue with usb is actually the ground, ground noise gets carried through regardless

    I wish schiit dacs would float the ground somehow

    lh labs dacs do this, the xsabre does it the vega too
     
  15. Dot

    Dot Friend

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    George---> "t's not theology, it's proven science."

    Give me a fuckin' break. "Proven science" changes faster than the major tenants of theological schools.

    If we're really getting into science, I talk regularly with all sorts of designers, scientists, and physicists—including a guy who designed fighter jets for the Pentagon.

    And you're forming your conclusions from a system comprised of an Oppo and a pair of HD 800s?

    Honestly, I think unless you have more to bring to the table, you should sit this one out.
     
  16. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    Anyone with a seriously good DAC, should try the Corning Optical USB cable in conjunction with the Schiit Wyrd in chain.
     
  17. Prydz

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    There's a difference between good and bad cables, but theres no difference between a good cable and a super expensive cable.
    Atleast thats what ive experienced. But ive only tried all Nordost, audioquest and some stock/monster cables.
     
  18. mickeyvortex

    mickeyvortex Friend

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    I've seen this Corning USB optical cable recommended by others as well. What is the difference between this cable and a regular Toslink optical cable?
    I've read before that Toslink was originally meant to travel through glass fibres or something like that but the costs and fragility made it impossible to make.
     
  19. Dot

    Dot Friend

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    BTW, if you're looking at following a scientific method... let's certainly do that.

     
  20. George Mhmmm

    George Mhmmm Acquaintance

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    Alrighty Dot, you can keep your second hand experiences and over priced USB cables but don't try to spread lies.

    I've worked at a company that designs extremely high precision electronic measurement instruments. We're talking non-silicon semiconductor technologies that require precision CNC'd metallic housing for the ICs themselves to reduce noise. They make the tools that enable the engineers to make the products you use.

    So go ahead, enlighten us on how a USB cable can improve your digital signal which gets re-clocked, and treated before going into the actual DAC chip.. And as for the ground noise, just slap some capacitors before ground and you're good to go.

    There is no need for fancy USB cables people. Save your time and money and invest it in other components of your system for a much larger performance gain.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015

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