The vintage Ortho thread

It’s not the enclosure. The driver has a large grado like peak that is absent from the YH1, HP1a , YH2,YH3 and HP variants of those of course.

Here are links to Changstar measurements of my 2011 modded Yamahas and explanations of the peak

YH100
YH1
YH3

I believe the midrange on these modded Yamahas are the cleanest Marv has ever measured. Probably a big reason I liked them so much. Combined with the flat FR

 

Thank you for the links. You’re right, the ringing appears to be just part of the driver and its really bad in the YH-100. In @stratocaster ’s transplanted open back HP-1 woody you can see the 2kHz distortion spike remain just like in stock enclosure even with different pads.

Why H-100?

 

Maybe not that bad in all though. The csd is not so much worse than modern hfm ortho walls like 400S. The frequency response and distortion are really good. I didnt notice until just now but the fr graph is on a 0-30db scale. Compare that to 400S on a regular 0-100. Plus descriptions of crazy man bass has given some hope too.

@rhythmdevils why do you have minus 64k likes? Villain!

 

Added a layer of micropore tape to outside of cups grills. Just wanted to see what more seal would do. Dense foam or some other absorber is preferred but I was being lazy.




*compared to previous mod / without micropore

Bass tightened up. The problem is the 2kHz. Before it was too low and vocals sounded a tad distant and often found myself turning the volume up after the song got going to compensate. Now it's the opposite, vocals tad forward so I turn it down but now bass too low. THX00 bass levels is what I want. Hopefully denser foam instead of micropore will right.


THX00 shows smooth highs but cymbals a little forward n messy. I only listened to a few songs though but feel confident because reminded me of my EMU branded version. THX00 was intended as a parts donor but wife wants to keep because its now by far my comfiest headphone (e-mu is out atm). The Yamaha YH2 is lightweight but the wife doesn't like supraaural and she thinks bass is a bit weak in comparison to Fosters.

Descriptions in rd posted links mention Grado-esque guitars but with mad bass. You like the YH-100 rd? You don't like Grado but sounds like you were giving Grado a compliment in your YH-100 description... @purr1n de Grado didn't comment on the YH-100 sound so maybe he wasn't impressed. :/

Edit: Track dependent too of course. It doesnt just affect vocals. Measurements show a litte more highs too... I would take notes if this were close to a final edit. 6lb foam mod next

 

Overdamped. Bass drop. Listening to overdamped is interesting at first because mids/highs go up another level in transients, but bass is underwhelming in impact and volume.

Ill try cutting thickness of cup foam in half.

 

Found an old pic of RD's yammies on my PC.



Also, some info on Yamaha Ortho drivers that I found in a Japanese Yamaha pdf:

 

I had forgotten all the experimentation with drilling out the cups. iirc there were some reasonable results with the YH100. Those are great pictures.

 

6# foam thickness sliced in half. Not perfectly cut. Pre-cut 1/4” foam sheets is the way to go for future orders.

The driver front side damping felt removed. Why was this here to begin with? The stock original flat pads earholes were narrow, basically the diameter of the non-felted inner circle area. Was it there for the same reasons I tried doing that to T10? To unplug some of the driver front wave from the leather earpads? Well, T30’s aftermarket pads ear holes are wide enough not to cover the driver so then I dont need felt buffers. Or do I? Let’s see



Some imbalance for sure. I blame it on my poor foam cutting. I am going to have to order more foams but in 1/4". In the meantime I will switch to felt layers in back of cup.

Clearer up n down, more soundstage. I'm thinking all thanks to front felt removal. Cymbals a little overdone maybe, but I also like them pretty muted. A little sibilance. Good move removing front felt. Just dial back damping in back or switch material type.

 

Lightened damping by going back to 2# foam but with a layer of felt at back of cup against grill. I did this experiment already kind of but with micropore tape instead of felt. L/R channel balance was back to good again but interestingly my right side was smoother, doesn't show 5k peak as strong or 9k anomaly. I dont know.

Next I would like to try multiple layers of felt only. However, I have headphone loaner ETA Genisis coming this week so ortho mods will get put on hold for a bit. I will try and get some measurements of YH-100 and RP18 posted though.



T30 mod vs THX00 ebony with AH lambskin pads.


I should have some extra subjective comments for current mod as I compare to Gen and THX00.

edit: Cymbals just a little bright / peaky, so I removed the felt. I feel it helped. Measurements only show a 1-3db difference in the highs. I had not talked about this before but cups grills have some thick cross bracing which is perfect for reflection. If these headphones weren't so rare I'd cut off straight away. I could do it discreetly and the headphones grill would look the same from outside but inside there would be no support so you could probably dent grill with a good poke. Wouldn't be totally unsupported though because of foam so maybe it would just bow a bit with pressure but not fold or dent.

 

Needs closer driver distance, sounds weird. Smaller velours pads applied. Much better.




Still not sure if 10k dip is real. It is when compared to THX00.

Ordered velour in 95mm. Skimping on hifimans still.

I need to stop fussing with this and finally compare to THX00 with notes, then compare both to ETA Gen.

 

I wouldn’t worry about reflections from thin cross beams across the cup vent. The opening prevents any resonance from happening there. All the pressure waves go out the opening and the cross beams become irrelevant. Unless they are very wide.

 

Thanks rd. I feel better about grill now. Pads and damping have a much larger effect and are easily reversed to stock, so I shouldnt be focusing on that little grill bit.

——————

Seller decided on their own to send me their modded RP18 instead of their spare stock. Here is the mod:

The clay is concerning. It’s butted up against driver which is like a cheese grater. Clay is moist so that cant be good for the membrane. @GREQ says clay can degrade plastic and make brittle. I asked seller for an exchange, waiting on response.

YH-100 out for delivery! If I dont like them Im giving the cursed phones to @Azimuth (wtf? a wizard has taken over rtaylor’s account). If he cant fix them then he can pass on the curse to the next victim.

 

Should’a just waited for me to get you an HP1a

 

YH-100, YH-1, YH-2

Notice they all have about the same ear hole size in the pads. YH-2’s smaller driver is more fully revealed. YH-2’s magnet hole spacing is tighter. YH-100 feels more substantial, some metal touches, nicer plastics. Dishwasher is running right now so not going to listen or takes measures. I did test that it's working. Some weird crinkling sound when adjusting on ears, can't tell if its pads, enclosure, or what. Only on right side, very close to ears and loud. Such good condition, hardly a mark.

 

I tried about 10 times to get a seal left side before I gave up. Maybe it's broken. Will try zero damping, and try YH-1 transplant. Less smooth sounding than stock YH1/2, it's the 2-3kHz. More detail and more extension though.

Still not sure where the loud creak comes from. It's only noticeable when adjusting position. Maybe a suction effect and membrane crinkle? Or maybe its the clamp pressure at headband pivot.

Not as minty as I thought. Still very good condition. I think its because the plastic is nicer and softer so it doesn't scratch as finely.

 

Might be a tear or hole in the membrane?

 

If it doesnt go away after driver transplant then its the driver. Hope seller accepts returns.

 

Good news: I don't think its the driver that creaks. Its the headband. Both sides will creak if you pressure on the headband arms just in the right spots. The creak transfers all the way down the headband into the joint inside the cup to your ears. So much for improved build quality.


Cup vents look pretty much the same as YH1/2 vents, except YH100 vents are forward. YH100 cup might be shallower.


Damping same as the other Yamahas.


Behold ani black magnet.


Removing damping on YH1/2 means flat or negative slope frequency response with roll off on both ends. YH-100 less effected. Next, YH-1 driver swap.

 

YH-100 driver doesn't fit YH-1 enclosure. YH100 driver thicker. Almost works but even with force it was not going down, there would have been air leaks.

I did find out that the noise is in the driver. Membrane moves and crinkles with suction from coupling/uncoupling ear pads. Driver seems to work fine otherwise. The noise is loud, like being in a darkened isolation chamber and suddenly having a sheet of aluminum crumpled right next to your ear.

Here is with vent felt reinstalled and stock foam replaced with 2pound foam cut to 1/2 thick. Overdamped (od):


May have been nice for a Grado head 10 years ago (me). Grado head today better served by ... new ETA supra-aural!
eBay seller appears to accept returns. Sorry @Azimuth - you have dibs on the next ortho.

edit: I meant ETA supra is the new Grado replacement because similar form factor and as a totl supra aural dynamic, but eta will be better because aiming for more neutral. I cant stand bright headphones anymore, sorry Grado (not including Hemp).

 

YH-100 driver (left) looks like a YH-1 driver with a layer of anisotropic slapped on top. YH-1 driver (right) has some resonance adhesive I applied for hugging driver snugly to baffle.