The vintage Ortho thread

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by gurubhai, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    eBay seller said to keep and refunded the amount. @Azimuth , headphones are yours if you want them. Otherwise they’ll go to ortho technomancer @dBel84 if he wants.

    edit: Anyone else is free to accept after that (friends then contributors)
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  2. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    Yeah, if they are kind of messed up, maybe @dBel84 can wok some magic. No worries man.
     
  3. dBel84

    dBel84 Friend

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    Happy to work magic and then release for wild
     
  4. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Not worth it for a bloody YH100 man. You’re too kind. @dBel84 loves orthos so much he’ll even resurrect the crappy ones. (I consider that resonance peak crap)

    :bow:

    (edit: reading this again it occurs to me it could be interpreted the wrong way. I of course meant it in a positive way. Just look at the emoji and ignore my sassy post)
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
  5. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Such an uncomfortable headphone is the T30. My fat head can deal with hybrid pads for a short period, but the velour's foam is too narrow and stiff. Those cheap hybrids are probably the most comfortable pads EVER too, but they still can't fully remedy T30 discomfort. Needs enclosure swap but I don't want to deal with the hassle since I'm getting an RP18. To classifieds.
     
  6. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    I made a mistake selling T30. THX00 sounds dry, cool, bright, and much less forward presentation (in yo face) in comparison. T30 has some tiny treble peaks that need addressing, but I think I can fix them. I'm going to see if I can smooth this out with @takato14 .

    edit: Offered @takato14 THX00 ebony w/ detachable cables w/AHL pads as substitute, or refund and offer T30 later at same price if I don't like compared to RP18 (still in transit), or refund and give free mal YH100 as compensation for hassle. I know you won't mind not having to fix another Yamaha @dBel84 .
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
  7. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    I got discouraged modding T30 because comfort issues. But now I know it's worth fixing.

    I got discouraged modding T30 because my mods messed up the sound. The secret is that circle of felt on the front of the driver's slightly covering perimeter. It really does smooth the highs a lot. Since removing felt filter the treble peaks became harder to tame with rear damping mods and pads. I could get to acceptable levels but it wasn't as smooth as I remember. I don't think I detailed this info enough in my mod posts well. I explained it became brighter, clearer, larger soundstage, but didn't say it became too peaky. My measurements show light peaks, but I didn't think it sounded like an issue, or atleast couldnt be resolved with further damping tweak at back. But over time they became problematic for me. I didn't realize until later that the front felt is kinda needed, or maybe some other pads but thats costly trial and error.
     
  8. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    As usual, I took 3-5 attempts with slightly different positioning and took what looked most correct or average. Interestingly the hybrid pads were hugely affected in 2-3kHz when removing that little felt circle.

    T30 hp ndff vs hp nd.jpg
    *hp = hybrid pads, ndff = no damping and no front felt, nd = no damping

    T30 v ndff vs v nd.jpg
    *v = velour pads
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
  9. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    THX00 can be modded to reduce highs (see @E_Schaaf TH900 thread). I think thinner pads would be most effective and make sound less sterile. Expensive trial and error though, however thinner pads tend to be much cheaper. Just have to find one’s that fit.
     
  10. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Thinner pads for smoother highs. Narrower earhole for less low-mid suckout (if that's an issue). Works on every dynamic I've tried. Your THX00 graph looks pretty solid as-is however, much better than a mahogany I previously measured with the stock x00 pads.
     
  11. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    T30 rescinded. Sorry @takato14 . Tak has not been back online yet to respond.

    T30 needs some front damping. Brown circle felt is stock. I am replacing with this less obstructive felt (green). Inner diameter bigger so covers less driver.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I will try different sizes and need to buy a compass asap.
     
  12. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    DT880 is a perfect match for RP18. Here are two examples from ortho roundup (GREQ + bucketinabucket). Pressure fitted.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    @E_Schaaf HE560 not needed anymore thank you, DT880 transplant much easier.
     
  13. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    I was using T30 undamped for comparison while ETA GenG was here. The sound quality difference isn't worth the price difference (poors perspective), and that I preferred the tone of modded T30 (because I modded it to my preference), but there was a good contrast in abilities. Realized T30 needed work but is also limited in ways by weaker magnets.

    Filled cups with 2lb foam as a start. The wiring kind of just lays on back of driver which can't be good for reflections. In the future Ill try routing the wires out of the way. Front felt circle mod improved the treble peaks (5&8kHz) that were caused by removing the stock front felt circle. The circle I made is less obstructive so has a halfway effect on treble peaks in trade for sound stage - i guess.

    T30 hp 2lbF ffm.jpg
    * hp = hybrid pads, 2lbF = two pound foam in cup, ffm = front felt mod

    edit: RP18 still in transit.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  14. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Is T30 identical with RP18 except the latter is OEM? I thought Rp18's drivers super capable, but couldn't bear its stock headband (too small for my head). Philimon's tuning also seems to more align with my preference (downward sloping!). If ergo improved greatly with 880's parts, that's very promising.
     
  15. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Others here would know better than I, but Ill try.: T30 used a mylar film for membrane and weaker magnets. RP18 used kapton film (better) membrane and stronger magnets. And lots of variations in between while in production. RP18 (and variants like T50) have a slightly larger driver and much more open enclosure. T30 headband not small but its lack of sufficient articulation is uncomfortable. DT880 transplant will provide better comfort, and a more easily modded platform (rp18 enclosure is open but also slim on space for choice of damping strategies).
     
  16. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Oh right. I was confused between t30 and t50. Thanks for the answer!
     
  17. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    A couple years back when hosting a meet, one of the new kids sees my Fostex T50rp-ii and says "oh cool, you've got one of the vintage ones... and I'm about to correct him, but then do a moment of mental math and realize my headphones are older than he is :oops:
     
  18. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Revisiting hybrid vs velour pads.

    Even though bass measures nearly same the velours bass sounds more present. Velour pads have slightly closer ear to driver distance. With velours the bass is not louder, but more detailed and more impactful. I guess (everything I say is a guess) the close driver distance means bass cancellation is not such an issue, so the sealed hybrid pads aren't necessary. The velours would have added benefit of less reflection / more air / better dispersion of stored energy (?). I don't hear less damping/control over driver, perhaps sealed pads are overdamped like a sealed cup. The 1-2kHz leveling does bring vocals forward in mix but I didn't think it bad at all before, different, would prefer somewere in middle. So, subjectively better bass but probably measures more distorted since less damping. Still want to try Hifiman focus-a pads but I'm being frugal still.

    T30 velour vs hybrid pads 85mm.jpg

    Beyerdynamic Frankenstein parts were gross so returning to find another - probably just buy cheapest new set. Thread originally titled HeadFi Gone Wrong / Music Alchemist . RP18 still in mail somewheres (coming from Hong Kong).

    edit: nah. I find the velour less relaxed and more fatiguing. And I thought I was being frugal buying defean pads except I keep ordering different dimensions for sound and comfort but then it all adds up to more than one hifiman focus-a set so I'll order hifimans now. I think 4XX comes with focus-a so I might do that.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2021
  19. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Not much ortho mods recently. Just waiting on RP18 for DT880 transplant. Mostly satisfied with T30’s current damping scheme, and the comfort is not too bad after strong-arm headband forming.

    The defean velours I suspect are rubber or pleather with an exterior velour lining, which means they are not so porous and explains why I dont lose bass when switching between defean hybrids. The velours are much preferred because they are much slimmer and allow much closer driver to ear distance. Much clearer, smoother upper mids.

    Less damping than seen in pics is too little. Lose too much bass focus/control. T30 undamped is still quite good and better than Yamahas overall by large margin.

    RP18 I plan to use HFM focus-a pads. Those pads would be too large for T30 but Ill give them a try anyway. If they sound as good as I expect then I might have to do a T30 transplant too. The HFM focus-a are best type of hybrids, the interior ear chamber is velour so its extra porous and allows entire large foam pad to be part of the ear chamber equation. They are also thin (close driver to ear distance) and angled.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    T30 mod today 5:25:21.jpg

    edit: :) The extra felt layer at back of cup is nah. Few db increase at 1-2kHz I think contributes to fatigue and a “hard” sound like 6XX. Not worth the little tighter bass trade off. Either reaching my damping sweet spot of technicalities vs tone, or damping and pad combo not optimal. I believe these pads are okay but could be better...
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021

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