The vintage Ortho thread

drilling holes into the back of the cups has great affects. I’ve been doing it for a decade nice job on yours, it’s hard to get them even.

 

@Ishcabible

Questions (some of these are not questions):
1. Yamaha HP-1 vs HP-3, which do you prefer and why?
2. AKG K4, good sound or novelty?
3. Cascadia Audio Planar, what's that? Website is empty. Found a reddit link of some pre-production info. That's it.
4. B&O U70:

5. Grado PS1000 Biodyna Driver Swap, details please?!
6. Sawafuji Frankenphone in Fake ESW10JPN Housing (Smeggypucks, though I lost them ages ago), very cool!
7. The TH900 mod is in the possession of Eudis of Aurorus, which is eventually going to be put into a new housing. <- Also very cool. I wish TH900 drivers were still available for easy purchase. Appear to be end boss driver.
8. Beyerdynamic ishT1 (T1 mod I made, drivers in DT770 housing and a lot of damping to make them more downward tilting), details please? A link would be fine if you detailed the project somewheres. Wondering if you were able to make them more downward tilting without use of filters on front-side of drivers.

I can't disagree with your HD650 and YH-100 opinions. Looking forward to more. Thank you

 

1. I prefer my modded HP3 to the incomplete HP1 project, though I have a lot of work to do with the HP1. I want to tame the midbass hump the HP1 has, plus air is a little muted compared to my HP3 as well. The HP3 FR is more even, if a bit more compressed.

Flat plate HP3 measurement:


2. Bad sound; even worse crossover mismatch than the K340. I only still have it because the headband snapped and don’t have a great way to fix it.

3. The Reddit link is all the info out now and even that is unfortunately out of date, as the drivers in that pair didn’t have great longevity (mine developed a rattle as it would excurse too much and would hit the magnet)

4. I’ve been meaning to see if these Peerless drivers would be good in another housing because in the current one they’re…not great.

5. I guess saying it’s a PS1000 isn’t totally true; they use this housing: https://www.earphonediylabs.com/sho...rofessional-over-ear-open-back-shell-diy-kit/ and one of the “nanofiber” ali drivers. Sounds like a Grado with more, and better defined midbass. Timbre takes a step back vs the black cup SR325 I had prior but it gets me most of the way there for the few times I’m in a Grado mood.

Also flat plate:


7. Yeah the TH900 drivers are fun to play with but I could never get the mids to sound quite right. They always sounded artificial to me, no matter how much I played with damping or EQ.

8. I don’t think I wrote much down, but when I get it back from the friend I lent them to, I can see what I did. I actually don’t believe I put much front damping in because I’ve often experienced front damping taking too much away. The pads (Cascadia Impact Pads) did a lot of the work taming treble.

Flat plate:

 

A Vintage Ortho Tour impressions and measurements by @Vtory . Yamaha HP-1a will have a separate thread.

Next user on tour is @takato14 followed by @E_Schaaf

Vtory’s impressions are pretty complete. Vtory is one of the best reviewers anywhere. Thank you

takato14 knows more about vintage headphones than anyone outside of perhaps @wualta himself. In fact, some say takato14 is wualta’s alternate account.

@E_Schaaf like all others invited to this limited tour has extensive experience with headphones. But in my observations E_Schaaf’s preferences in sound most align with mine so I am curious if he agrees.

Others invited to tour but not joined for x reason: @purr1n , @Hands , @cskippy . Other top tier stud sbaf members are welcum to fill the void.

The RP18 seems to be of poor condition (mods aside). Maybe @takato14 can diagnose the exact failure. The left and right driver casing was loose due to stripped screw threading and were seemingly only held together by pressure+friction. I replaced with slightly thicker screws that didnt quite do the job (but helped) and then applied adhesive damplifier for extra security.

If you look back in thread you will see that Ive always preferred the Fostex T30 even stock. RP18 I tuned purposely to have a more lean-ier signature thinking that a different signature from T30 might entice me to ocassionally use with the right album... I listened approximately 3 times (for testing mods).

The goal of the tour is to spread vintage ortho love, to scrutinize vintage ortho (to prevent elites from slandering modern planar), and to selfishly get advice for figuring out which headphone to buy next. So far its narrowed down for me to Voldemort (via TTVJ), LCD2C, and ETA / ESX, and TH900.

 

I ͏fee̶l s͢o̶rr̨y fór wúalta͘ i̢f ̷th͝at's ̶the͟ cas̕e! I'̀d͟ ͞di͏sa͡ppea͏r̨ a̴fter ̢t͠h̕a̵t t́o̴o LǪL

I͝'ll be t͝h͞oro̡u̸g̷h̵ i̧n m̨y wr̢it̶e̴up ͜for̨ ͘t̛hese͘, ̵ti͘m͠ę p͝ermìt͠ting.̧

 

Take all the time needed @takato14 .
@wualta still exists on Audiokarma.
@Vtory Yamaha HP-1a analysis.

 

Another YH-2. Pretty good condition. Dust on pad mesh looks like disintegrated foam. Interested in opening and finding out if I got rare magnet version again (conical magnet holes*). That last YH-2 I accidentally killed (adhesive spill) and finally have a replacement.

And again, I find YH-2 smoother than YH-1. HP|YH-1 are just too off, too much upper mids. HP|YH-2 is warmer and more linear, my second favorite of the vintage orthos (first being T30). Trade off being bass macrodynamics, impact, and sounstage due to smaller driver vs YH-1.

Spoiler: *conical magnet holes

Spoiler: vs straight holes (pics from YH-1)

The theory being that conical (flared / tapered outwards) would improve airflow and reduce resonance. The shaping is pretty subtle and so I'd bet any heard difference is as well. Still cool

 

Extended listening to YH-2 last night did lead to some ear fatigue which is the reason why I did want to offload my previous YH-2 right before accidentally destroying then later wanting to get another to try (again).

The fatigue is from driver ringing. But could be part enclosure reverb or resonance issue. Hopefully @rhythmdevils modded HP-1a analysis by @Vtory will shed some light.

If the Yams are untensioned (like modern T50RP), then how does the driver ringing occur? Isn't the diaphragm like a piece of paper held down by a paper weight (in this case its polyester held down with a center-pin)? No reason it should ring like a bell, right? I don't remember T50RP having ortho walls which Yamaha appear to have. I'll have to look again at T50RP CSDs.

 

My V1 modded Yamahas (done in about 2012. I rolled off the treble because I couldn’t stand the rough treble response of Yamahas. But I’ve since figured out how to get clean treble out of them. And some other tricks. So I’d call my current Yamaha mods V2)

here’s V1 CSD’s. That’s some of the cleanest midrange of any headphone ever made. Maybe the cleanest.

YH3


YH1


Slight inaudible ortho wall but they sounded very clean.

 

Another HP-2. Mint condition with box. Don't worry, I am not collecting or flipping... They all wind up in community member's hands usually for free or cheap.

Spoiler: more data

These measure a little warmer than previous HP/YH-2 sets Ive had. I can't seem to find my last set of HP-2 measurements atm (update if find) which were odd too. They sounded most cloudy, fuzzy, and pleasantly ethereal. Condition or production variation?

I have another YH-2 incoming (also minty with box). The YH-2 set has a chance of being rarer conical magnet version. Id probably rather warmer tone than the theoretical improvements of conical magnet holes and even though actual frequency response measurements have shown to be smoother than non-conical. These HP-2 sound good. Macro dynamics in bass is lacking a lot compared to Emu purpleheart. The microdynamics are about on par with Emu (or actually Yam is ahead with faster transients but both have potential for improvement, especially Yam). But mids is where Yamaha pulls a bit ahead... Vocals sound a little fuller and more fleshed out with a wider image (im guessing some of this is frequency response and the fact that Yamaha are actually vented or semi-open while the Emu is sealed. The nicer mids also extend to nicer acoustic and electric guitar as well, mostly noticeable faster attack and microdynamics. (nice) Emu is smoother, no edge, cleaner in upper mids which is very non-fatiguing, a pleasure. Overall prefer Emu.

What could be reasons for extra warmth or fuzziness on earlier sets of HP/YH-2? Thicker diaphragms? Maybe metal tracing wasn't so refined yet and added weight due to thickness? Maybe because they are older the damping foam inside is always going to be in worse condition from expiration? Guesses

Spoiler: pic from sale ad

 

Again, mild fatigue after extended listening (this time with an HP-2). But from what we’ve seen ringing can be damped down with … more damping. Wondering can ringing be minimized to satisfaction while not overdamping the bass and macrodynamics.

Never did get a Yamaha to a level of satisfactory that would allow me to recommend to others. But this time I have a secret weapon… Loki+. Will mods and eq shaping be enough to make a headphone that’s better than Emu purpleheart? This Yamaha HP-2 is going to @dBel84 and in exchange I will be getting a modded YH-2. Stay tuned for comparison, possibly this weekend.

Emu purpleheart is a great headphone. Around the same price as YH-2 as well. In comparison, Emu is clearly cleaner, and with actual serious funk’n bass.
https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...assdrop-x-e-mu-purpleheart-measurements.3539/
Yamaha I would give the edge in microdynamics.
My bias is towards macro over micro, and tone then timbre above all else. I feel Emu will win.

 

Loki+ and YH-2 modded by @dBel84. Upgraded with fancy cable and plug because stock was losing touch.

Spoiler: YH2 dBel84 Loki+ settings

^ I need to paint the marks so they are more visible in bad lighting.

Spoiler: Frequency response measurements

^ Was careful to get a good seal. Did not reposition headphones etc in between EQ adjustment measurements.

-"Stock" vs modded vs modded+eq impressions later.
-"Stock" will have to be filled in by another HP/YH-2... for a/b
-eq might change later, this was just quick setup guess at what I might like using measurements only.
-Did not know how fun and easy Loki+ would be. Want Lokius

 

Early first impressions of YH-2 by @dBel84

Without EQ pros:
- the clarity of mids thru highs. Cymbals particularly defined yet not punishing. The extra treble energy also giving an extra sense of speed.

Without EQ negatives:
- the bass is dead. I know @dBel84 knows bass from his experiences with other headphones and speakers so not sure how this tuning is justified. No dynamics, no depth, no texture. The frequency is there but you have to look for it. Not surprised as this is typical of modded Yams. You choose bass or better controlled mids/highs. Either choice is ultimately unsatisfying. A meeting in the middle make them sorta mid-fi and unremarkable which I wouldve recommended as a decent closed back, but not anymore since I much prefer Emu purpleheart around the same price ($50 used and $75 new).

 

Early first impressions of YH-2 by @dBel84 but with Loki+ EQ

With EQ pros:
- Not sure there are any. Without EQ was not offensive. Even thought treble measured high it was not piercing. Just missing bass macrodynamics.
- Using eq to reduce highs kind of just took away the shine / clarity, the one impressive strength removed.
- Using eq to increase bass most noticeably just added a bit of unpleasant pressurization maybe? Cant say it got better.
- Ill fiddle more with eq later.

 

FYI

I am a basshead. I do find sometimes “wooly” headphones not so bad. I do often trade away bass quality for more quantity. I hope to make this clear in further impressions. And I do hope to better communicate the differences I perceive.

 

First impressions were a bit of a shock. I came from listening to Emu purpleheart over the past few days. Emu PH is a bassy headphone and I really enjoy bass. Post-first-impressions with EQ.:

Spoiler: YH2 dBel84 Loki+ 8kHz @9,8,7

- YH-2 dBel84 mod with a bit of treble reduction by EQ is very good for $50 (tied for best with Emu PH). Can't think of another headphone Id rather have for few hundreds more (aside from Fostex T30). Only RS2x, LCD2C, Voldemort, and TH900 really intrigue me.
- The bass is better without EQ, just doesn't have the macrodynamics of Emu with it's flexible surround biocellulose diaphragm drivers.
- YH-2 mod trades blows with Emu PH. Different flavors but I can see me preferring one over the other based on mood or album. Bass goes to Emu, all else goes to Yamaha.
- I've said this before but Yamaha reminds me most of Grado. Form factor obviously but in sound too. Quick attacks, fast bass, with a bit of colored treble that makes electric guitar and vocals exciting. The difference is that this modded YH-2 is non-fatiguing vs average Grado. Better microdynamics in bass vs Grado too. The bass can growl, its textured, just doesn't slam. Yamaha is lovely with rock music.
- Damping mods seem to have fixed my issues with fatigue, ringing / resonance has been quelled.
- VS Emu PH, I think the Yam holds its composure better on complex stuff, easier to make out the details, doesn't get indistinct.
- Production variance and age ... how do you know if you have a good one to start mods from? Would be my caution to others.
- These are closed headphones but dont sound as closed as Emu PH. Better like THX00. Wont be as airy and cool like a Grado of course.

SUMMARY: Must hear if you like Grado. But not fatiguing like Grado. And technicalities par with RS2e (rs2e attacks faster with longer nice mid/treble decay too, its specialty, from memory). $50!

edit: Forgot to say Emu PH used in this test is modded and uses EQ. See thread.
edit2: RS2e was with ttvj deluxe pads

 

I have never been very scientific about my approach to tuning headphones as it is more of an art in my mind. No two headphones are ever identical which I have put down to driver variation and probably my mood at the time. @Philimon : Thanks for your in-depth investigation and description, I am most fascinated by the impact of the Loki - it really does what it is said to do. This FR curve is probably a reflection of my 50 yo ears and some HF loss . Here is what mods to the HP50 looked like a decade or more ago

I truly love these small driver orthos, they offer so much and although they lack the scale of the likes of the audeze , they offer a very enjoyable listening experience. Yamaha HP3.YH3.HP50 and the later YHD1 and 2, Fostex T10, early T20 and the Russian counterparts too. ( feels like I should have broken off into a Dr Zeus rhyme )

some of the most balanced vintage orthos I have yet heard are RD's modified YH/HP1 - this is pure wizardy to get these particular headphones as neutral as they are.

..dB

 

YH-2 is more enjoyable for live instrument music. Sense of instruments that are associated with bass dont just reside in lower frequencies. Snare drum frequency range is 50Hz to 1000Hz (according to quick internet search). While listening to Emu I gravitated to music that used electronic instruments because that's where I find more of that low bass that makes Emu a treat (low bass that often doesnt have the subtle textures of live instruments). With the YH-2 I quickly found myself cycling away towards music that used real instruments, and YH-2 was better here than Emu PH (including vocals). So back to the snare drum, the speed and clarity of the YH-2 mids is as important as the lower frequency dynamics of Emu PH. YH-2 mids+highs microdynamics are greater than Emu PH and on level of RSe. YH2 has better mids-highs delineation, RS2 has faster attack.

If it had been understood that damping can reduce driver ringing to acceptable levels in these old Yams then I would have had an easier time at mods myself. I was trying to balance the Yamahas so they had the best tone and macrodynamics (for me), but in the end could not stand the driver ringing. The driver ringing can be reduced to acceptable levels, but in exchange you will be losing on tone and macrodynamics (imo). I like downward sloping frequency response. Neutral (with treble eq) with inaudible ringing has been achieved here @dBel84 . And vs stock, the mods make this go from odd vintage phone with hints of hi-fi, to good headphone with abilities that put it way way above it's going price.

Also news to me is how much easier life is with EQ. Meticulous mods and expensive padrolling to fix a little treble bump can be easily solved with a turn of a knob. Loki+ has changed everything for me. I am going to revisit past headphones I didn't like due to tone. Totally opens some doors. I can have a Grado (like Yamaha) and not have my ears bleed while still having all their positives that make them unique and awesome.

You are 50 @dBel84 ? The selfie you posted earlier in thread looks younger than me at at 37... damn

Do the HP50 / YH3 have deeper cups? Would explain why how even though they have the same driver as HP/YH-2 the HP50 still has more warmth/bass. The only issue I see is that HP50/HP/YH3 have those thick front grills.

 

Sorry for the offtop, but this DIY site has a "Reference Planar-Magnetic Headphone assembled with original Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC (Total Consciousness) headphone components by Earphone DIY Labs." up for $2000. Like, WTF. Who are they? Does anybody know anything?
Looks like a scam, and their photos shows 1266 v1, not Phi TC

 

https://www.earphonediylabs.com/sho...audiophile-planar-magnetic-headphone/#reviews