This is not a review of the AudioQuest Dragonfly Red or comparison to DF 1.2

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by lm4der, May 3, 2016.

  1. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    I titled this thread as such because my ears and level of experience are just not good enough to be able to do an in depth analysis of sound characteristics. The readership should take everything I say here with a reasonable quantity of salt. Probably teaspoon fulls, not just grains.

    In any case, I would still like to pass on my impressions such as they are.

    So, to set the context, my goal is to have a nice portable DAP-like solution, but I don't want a DAP when I already have a smartphone with a great UI and lots of storage. So I prefer to use my Android smartphone with USB OTG out to a dac stick, and on to my HPs. The challenge of course is finding a decent DAC stick.

    Also, just for reference, the best gear I have heard is only my Bifrost Multibit->Valhalla2->HD650, so this would constitute the top of the line reference point for me, so far.

    I originally bought the DragonFly 1.2 for this purpose, and I've had it for a couple years now. It is ok, as in pretty much just ok. It's not great. The Modi2/Magni2 stack kicks it in the teeth. That is certainly not a fair comparison given form factor, power etc, but at the same time that's not exactly a high bar to reach in terms of SQ. But with that said, it is easily better than the HP out from my phone (Samsung Galaxy S5), and better than my Lenovo laptop HP out. The DF 1.2 is more stable and controlled than HP out from my phone with my HD598 - this may just be that it has a little more power to handle impedance swings, but I think it is more than that. It does sound better. It doesn't really do a great job with the HD650 IMHO. I think it doesn't have the balls. I don't listen to the HD650s from my phone yet for this reason.

    The DragonFly Red just came out a few weeks ago. I paid $198 on Amazon, just arrived today. So I've had it warming up for a few hours, but I haven't spent a whole lot of time with it yet. This also means that I could be suffering from new gear-aphoria.

    It's immediately obvious that it sounds different than 1.2. If I can hear that, anyone can hear that. It is also easily better than the 1.2. The tonality is the first thing I notice is different - it feels like the tonality is more accurate, like when you can hear the "room sound" of an instrument it sounds more correct or realistic. The next thing I notice is that it is livelier, and that it imparts a delicacy to the sound not present in the 1.2 - delicacy in the sense that there is much more nuance. I also notice more tonal density with the Red.

    So far I am pleased that this seems to be an upgrade to the 1.2, and actually seems to sound pretty darn good. I hesitate to try to say any more at this point. I'll spend some time with it and see if the initial impressions hold up.

    More to come...
     
  2. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I'm curious to hear more, as I have considered something like the Dragonfly Red for when Apple drops the headphone jack on their phones (although at the moment I'm considering skipping the 7 because the 6S is great). I do have the Leckerton but it's thicker than the phone itself, and the DAC in it is nothing special.
     
  3. Poleepkwa

    Poleepkwa Friend

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    Apparently the IPhone 7 will have headphone jack according to some leaks (see GSM arena). I am very interested to try the Red myself. Looks like it could be a vey handy little gadget for use on the road and possible as DAC at home to feed a more powerfully desktop system. I have been pretty impressed how good these little USB dacs are getting for their money. Makes me feel silly to have spent so much money on DACs before.​
     
  4. TraverS

    TraverS New

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    I also want to hear more. Could you tell me how much battery it consume when you use it with your phone?
     
  5. Ulises

    Ulises Friend

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    I bought the red. My expectations were low but I travel a bit for work and don't want to carry a Dap or a brick solution. Figured if the red was better than the phone, it would be a win. I took it on its inaugural trip with a PM-3 and UERMS and was pleasantly surprised by how involving it is. I perceive a lot more thump, space, and detail than I was getting with the same headphones out of my iphone. Also sounds good out of my laptop. Not as luscious as the multibit dacs and accompanying amps (I have the Bifrost Multibit + lyr 2 and the Gungnir Multibit + mojo 2), but considering its size and the ability to power it off a phone without too much impact on the battery life, I think it's definitely worth checking out. It sounds dumb, but it's so easy to connect to the phone and use (no filters, no adjustments, no tweaking) that I end up using it a lot...sitting out on the deck,, cycling, etc. Haven't compared to any DAPs but the red + tidal + an iphone is the best portable solution I've found.
     
  6. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Interesting. I am still trying to sell my GOV2 Infinity, but would still like something better than my laptop on the go. I wonder how the Red would compare to the regular GOV2.
     
  7. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Fraggler, I'm not expecting the new Red to best a GOV2 (especially the GOV2 balanced mode) in audio quality.
    the original DragonFlys were not great by today's standards and was bested by the GOv1 according to most people, am not expecting Audioquest Rankin to magically exceed other designers/products by implementing a better USB conduit into this form factor.

    with my laptop, I'm staying with GOV2. (used on a daily basis)

    yet that being said- I'm very intrigued by the Red form factor, being "small and in line" with an iPhone + apple Lighting USB cable and IEMs. a mostly "pocketable" solution!
    which of course the GOV2+ (battery model) is not, due to (loose) micro USB ports, longer cables, larger size, etc.

    Red may be the perfect augmentation with smartphones over DAPs, delivering audio quality "mostly all there" when compared to higher end devices.
    luckily I have balanced and SE IEM cables, and want to try Red with iPhone 6S for sure.
    for my ears "mostly all there" is enough audio quality to satisfy in a public environment,
    Red could be great for walking the city and commute purposes, locations I don't take a GOV2+ (battery model) because it always becomes "unplugged" in mobile situations.

    edit: clarified V2+ battery model and better english words.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
  8. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    Yeah, I don't really expect the Red to beat the balanced out of a GOV2, but like you said, its form factor is really nice and could be good enough.
     
  9. Ulises

    Ulises Friend

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    Yeah, that's it. It is truly pocketable. There's no charging so you don't have to bring an extra plug and cord on a trip. Also, build quality seems pretty solid. If you set expectations appropriately and end up using it a lot, it's well worth the price. I will continue to use it until something better, more efficient, and equally pocketable comes along. That said, out of curiosity, I would love to have some of the seasoned, discerning ears here compare it to other solutions like the Geek Out and see where it stands.
     
  10. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    Got DragonFly Red monday. Running via iphone 6/lightning cable/tidal. Just took it on the train to Pasadena and doesn't seem to use up too much power, maybe 1% more if that. A tad warm sounding with the highs rolled off a smidgen. Does have enough power to run the 400i efficiently & Sennheiser 800's ok. Can run most mid-fi headphones. The only problem I have with them is running any iem, it almost too much power causing ear pain. Iphone doesn't have a good volume midpoint where its audible and clear vs too loud. They do make the UERR sound great though. I may get the lower model and see if they're better for iems.
     
  11. YtseJammer

    YtseJammer Almost "Made"

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    Have you tried to drive your HD650 with the Red ?

    Thanks
     
  12. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    Tried the HD650 and it sounded great. The bass was a little lose but otherwise it sounded good.
     
  13. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    I basically agree with @neogeosnk. The bass is soft and looser than with better gear, still a touch flat (not as lively as it should be).

    Well, the Red does a better job than the 1.2 with the HD650s. It seems to have a little more responsiveness in the bass department, and the overall sound is more refined. Both of them can get pretty loud; the Red does go louder. But I am not close to maxing out the volume. That said, the Red sounds fine, but doesn't bring the HD650 as alive as a more powerful setup. In this case I thought Modi2/Vali 1 (yes Vali 1) gave it much better dynamics and life. I'm intentionally comparing to the low-end Schiit stack, because the higher end stuff is in a different country (metaphorically). But given that we are talking about a dac on a stick, you could live it with it on the HD650s, while away from the better gear. I think I prefer using the HD598, even though it is not as refined as the HD650, it feels like it is getting enough out of the 598s to have some toe-tap.
     
  14. YtseJammer

    YtseJammer Almost "Made"

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    Thanks for your feedback. I'm wondering if the Red is working well with Android phones?
     
  15. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    Working well with my Samsung S5.

    Edit: I should clarify, I have only tried it with the USB Audio Player Pro app. Also, just for the record, The DF 1.2 worked fine on S5 too with UAPP.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2016
  16. YtseJammer

    YtseJammer Almost "Made"

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    Can someone tell me if the Red is working with the iPod Touch 5G or 6G and the new apple lightning to usb camera adapter ? (MD821AM/A)

    Thanks
     
  17. YtseJammer

    YtseJammer Almost "Made"

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    I saw on HF that there's a lot of issues with Android. I hope that Audioquest will be able to fix the problems rapidly..
     
  18. neogeosnk

    neogeosnk Friend

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    Also picked up the black 1.5 and it sounds almost identical to the 1.2 but is supposed to draw less power. Ran it for about 3 hours and the battery drain was to me about the same as running tidal from headphone jack. It was cleaner and had better separation and 1/3 more power than the internal components (iPhone). In conclusion red for full sized middle of the road efficiency headphones & Ciems, black for iems and efficient heaphones. This is obviously not for critical listening, however this is a "cheap" solution for streaming on phone or tablet.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2016
  19. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    I suspect that Android's built in support for USB OTG is still not great, but this is all remedied by the excellent USB Audio Player Pro app. It's like 8 bucks, and has a built in USB audio driver that work great.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2016
  20. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    Some more impressions after having spent a bit of time with DF Red:

    0) I think what I said in my OP still stands.
    1) Overall I find the DF Red is better than either the DF1.2 or headphone out from phone - more immersive and it gives more depth to instrument notes.
    2) The DF 1.2 is a warm DAC and the bass can feel a little bloomy; not so with The Red. The Red is more in the neutralish department, IMHO. I think the bass resolution is noticeably better on Red as compared to 1.2.
    3) I think (on Red) that the treble has a thinnish sound as you get up to the upper frequencies. It's not glarey or harsh, it's just that very high notes can get a little brittle sounding.
    4) Finally, the DF Red is a long way from perfect in terms of sound quality. It's just not quite as a good as an entry level Schiit stack. But this thing doesn't have the benefit of an A/C wall wart either, so we have to cut it some slack.

    For the record, I thought the DF1.2 was a lot less compelling than the Red. DF1.2 doesn't elevate the SQ much from my phone. DF Red seems to be the product the first one should have been, as it does its job a little better.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2016

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