Turntable vs Yggdrasil A2 (or DAVE, Vivaldi, MSB Analog Super $50000, etc,)

Considering jumping into vinyl;

Question, would you choose a modest Classic 1/Kuzma stabi s setup or Yggdrasil A2? Not accounting convenience factor, just purely musical enjoyment.

 

Take it you mean the vpi classic 1? Great build quality but sound quality is a let down on the other hand the kuzma stabi s is a great deck!

I've heard kuzma's top of the line deck against the top of the line dCS Vivaldi dac and in my opinion the kuzma came out on top.

I can't comment on the Yggdrasil A2 but you also need to take into account things like your phono stage and digital transport.

 

I have a Pro-ject Classic TT with a ClearAudio Ebony cartridge. The Kuzmna is likely a step up from what I have. That said my TT often sounds better than my Yggdrasil on the same recordings especially when those recording were originally analog. I was listening to a Rush vinyl reissue of A Farewell to Kings the other day. I then put on my original pressing of the same album and it was way better than the reissue. No contest. I played the latest digital version of the album and it sounded flat much like the reissue. The original pressing projected 3D in the room by comparison. Vocals and bells have much more clarity and realness. Bass was warmer and just more beautiful. I had my wife listen to both and she was really surprised at how much better the original pressing was. And she normally does not care about these things. So the problem IMO comes from the digital mastering. However I have some newer recordings that are digitally mastered that sound fantastic on my Yggdrasil. But usually when the original master was analog the digital re-master just seems to strip things away. Perhaps it is the compression that is doing it. Not sure. So having a good TT and a good DAC is what I recommend if you can do it. For older recordings that were originally analog I much prefer LPs when they are cut directly from the analog masters. For newer recordings that start digitally I often still buy CDs or hi rez downloads.

Yggdrasil is a great DAC but it can't fix a master than inherently has digititus. But with a good quality digital master it will sound sublime.

 

I'm old enough to remember when labels started to remaster digitally their analog recording catalogs so that they could resell the same music on the new medium. Most of those early digital remasters were awful. Unfortunately, labels have often continued to recycle those digital remasters for other digital distribution, even though the digital (re)mastering art has improved a lot. OTOH, some careful remasters are excellent, for instance the (originally for SACD) remaster of the 1956 Reiner/CSO RCA "Living Stereo" recording of Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade and Stravinsky's Song of the Nightingale. When I first heard this through my Yggdrasil-based speaker system, I was floored by the outstanding realism of the orchestral presence, better than in many (most?) originally digital masters of more recent orchestral performances.

 

Yeah I love the TT set up NYC crew has. None of us have heard the Yggdrasil A2 though and was curious about the delta.

Time to acquire kpop in vinyl.

 

Yggdrasil A2 is Yggdrasil with analog 2, I believe.

 

I found that some Punk/hardcore to be an exception to this. Punk initially had a heavy DIY asthetic where they did whatever they could to avoid the big label recording industry. At around the same time studios were transitioning to digital and offloading their analog gear. A lot of this analog gear was acquired cheaply or from dumpsters so they could record their own tracks. The most prominent of these producers is Steve Albini who still uses an all analog chain and requires his clients to keep their studio mix as a tape reel(for non-audiophile reasons) with a CD master as an option.

I believe the vinyl re-release of In Utero by Nirvana was given special attention and was mastered completely analog.

Funny part is that it would be the opposite these days. Just get a Focusrite/Behringer interface and GarageBand and you have an instant studio to get started.

 

Well put. I would add that getting even an entry level TT will give you some things that no DAC can do. So do not think you need to spend $3k to get a TT that will give you a good viny experience. My Pro-ject the classic certainly does that. I almost got an even cheaper TT because I was still kind of trying the waters. Really glad I did not do that considering how much I love playing vinyl now. In fact knowing how much I love vinyl now I would have stretched my budget as far as I could have. If I upgrade, I hope to some day, I will spend at least $3k as purr1n suggests. I know I can get even better quality vinyl playback than what I have and that blows my mind.

So not to drift too far off topic. My TT actually prompted me to upgrade my DAC to the Yggdrasil. Sure glad I did as it closed the gap considerably. Yggdrasil has a more analog like quality than other DACs I have heard. I have lots of music I love that I can only get on digital. The Yggdrasil Analog 2 really sounds great with this music.

 

Never thought of that. Picked up a few scruffy punk records and the album covers have been so shitty one was even wrapped in newspapers but the actual records sound great. Also I'm guessing some indie and shoegaze bands did this as well. Spaceman 3 seemed to love porky prime cuts.

 

If you have a good source for kpop vinyl, let me know. It's probably the last thing keeping me from switching.

 

What would be considered the minimum vinyl setup(turntable, cartridge, phono) to surpass a Yggdrasil V2?

 

I don't see a good digital and good analog system being mutually exclusive. I have decent collections of both cds and records, and I want to enjoy both at a relatively high level ( in my case that's Gumbie). Speaking only for myself, I get a lot more musical enjoyment from vinyl, plus I get to f**k around with cool mechanical stuff, but I own, and will own more, cds that will never have a corresponding vinyl copy. And frankly sometimes it's nice to just plug in a cd or hit up the jriver musical carousel. So easy!

 

Completely agree. I love having both. Most of the new classical music for the last couple of decades only came out on digital. Much of this especially past the year 2k sounds excellent on my Yggdrasil. Some of the newest digitally recorded classical is surprisingly good. Some of my classical music on LP sounds lame. Like always not all producers do a good job. But when an old classical recording is produced well in analog those LPs are a real treat. I have a pure analog CBS Gold label Mozart violin concerto LP that is just amazing. Nothing in my collection reproduces the sound of the violin so naturally and beautifully. Quiet clean pressing that I paid $2.99 for at a local record store.

 

Just a couple additional considerations when comparing vinyl and digital;

1. Cleaning is more important with vinyl
2. Set up is more important with vinyl
3. Finding music is more difficult with vinyl
4. Drinking and listening to music is more risky with vinyl

Any of these things can swing the balance in the direction of digital. Even "plug and play" vinyl setups are a more significant commitment than a DAC.

I thought vinyl would be a sure fire way to get better sound than digital. It turns out it takes some knowledge and experimentation to get it right. You also need to factor in the many thousands of dollars on physical media if you are starting from scratch.

All that being said...I bet kpop sounds amazing on vinyl

 

I have an unpopular opinion.

Almost all of the home vinyl rigs I have heard suck, I've heard the Kronos pro in a multi million dollar audio room, totl Kuzma and VPI avenger and none of them 'beat' good digital in my opinion.
The lack of blackground, surface noise, pops and crackles do not add to my experience, especially in songs that have lots of quiet passages.

I have heard a couple of vinyl rigs that do stuff that digital struggles to do, these were dialled in perfectly and the level of effort that had gone into sourcing and caring for the records themselves was insane. Was it better than a great digital system such as the boulder 2020 or msb select ii with a world class transport? I don't honestly think so.

I would love to be wrong. But as someone who grew up with digital, who is incredibly sensitive to noise, hiss, pops and crackling. I find most vinyl systems unbearable, and the few guys who have nailed it. I don't think I'm prepared to go through the hassle to get there.