Turntable vs Yggdrasil A2 (or DAVE, Vivaldi, MSB Analog Super $50000, etc,)

Discussion in 'Vinyl Nutjob World: Turntable and Related Gear' started by Cakecake, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    It really depends on what you listen to. Most of what I listen to is modern jazz, classical, or world recorded after 1990. Most of what I buy are new releases in those genres. OTOH, if I were focused on classical and jazz from mid-40s to mid-60s, I would invest on vinyl. The recent fashion of vinyl derived from digital studio masters seems pretentious and ridiculous to me.
     
  2. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Buying vinyl using a digital master is something that I really struggle to understand. I might be missing something but vinyl in this manner has all the drawbacks of vinyl, and digital.

    Example: Daft Punk RAM. Is the digital hi res version on various sites not the exact same master used for pressing?
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Keep in mind that @Hooncake asked about the musical experience and to not account for the convenience factor.

    In regards to Yggdrasil A2: you guys do realize that its designer is a vinylhead with a predisposition toward Decca plumb (maroon or purple) cartridges?

    I sold Yggdrasil after my VPI Classic 4. However I did acquire the Yggdrasil A2 at a later date. The Yggdrasil A2 gets closer, but still isn't quite there.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I didn't find the vinyl version of it to surpass the digital version in terms of immediacy or magic; however the vinyl mastering was better: less bassy, more even.
     
  5. winders

    winders boomer

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    I love the idea of vinyl but in no way love the reality of it. I sometimes regret giving away my massive vinyl collection 10 years ago. But every time I go to a friends house and go through the headaches of playing vinyl I am so glad I own none.

    I have gotten back into listening to full albums in the last year or so and I still would not want to deal with vinyl. The sound can often be better but not better enough to be worth the hassle. I have a DAC/preamp/amp setup that goes a long way toward eliminating the often noticeable digital sound signature. The tube amp I have coming should help even more.

    What I have discovered is that finding the best CD mastering can make a huge difference in the quality of the digital experience.

    With Roon, I can be in my library, office, or garage and select any music I own or any music on Tidal using my iPad. I don’t have to clean anything or use special care handling vinyl.

    I applaud you guys that are willing to put up with vinyl. I do love the sound...just not enough to join you.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Not totally related to convenience per se, but as @Priidik related to, set up is not easy.

    Are you a person who likes to tweak caster, camber, toe, adjust sway bars and tire pressures, dial in shock rebound and compression on a car?

    If so, then maybe vinyl is for you. One has to be anal rententive about these things. Fifty, maybe even eighty percent of vinyl rigs I hear are not set up properly, and in some instances totally fucked up. I don't trust "reputable" hi-fi shops to set up my TT correctly. This is from experience. In fact, I don't trust anyone but myself. This is the mindset that is necessary to get the best out of a TT rig.
     
  7. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Oh I wouldn't abandon my DAC for sure if I had a turntable. My question was more to gauge an equivalent if you had the same album on CD and vinyl. I mean the vinyl could be mastered better, but you might never know that if you played it on a Crosley.
     
  8. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    @dmckean44 please remove the dislike of @Xecuter 's post. He wants me to be his first dislike. I don't even dislike his post. But it's principle. Thank you for your understanding.

    @winders good idea. Continue adding distortion in your chain. Before long, you'll not be able to hear all the things you dislike about your source. Actually, though, I'm surprised the Sachs and Meme-22 combo doesn't cut the mustard.

    Vinyl is a commitment. And not a sensible one, either. Nobody's going to argue those points.
     
  9. winders

    winders boomer

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    Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.....

    I don’t know if I will like the Sachs amp more than the M-22. I will soon find out. The Sachs preamp and M-22 are great together. I am actually dubious....
     
  10. Stapsy

    Stapsy Friend

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    I think this is the key point. Convenience is having thousands of gb of music stored on a hard drive ready to be played at the push of a button or not having to get up every 15-20 minutes to change a record side. Getting the most out of a vinyl setup goes much beyond that and is an ongoing commitment.

    I went out and listened to 7-8 different setups at various dealers before I made a decision.
    My Ace Spacedeck, Ortofon Quintet, and Mofi Studio phono outdoes my farily competent digital rig by a significant margin. I think something like a Clearaudio Concept, a Hana SL or Ortofon Quintet, and the mofi studio phono would best a lot of digital at an even cheaper price.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  11. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    What sarcasm? I used a ZDS with Yggdrasil for a year.
     
  12. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    This is a perfect analogy for me. In theory I really enjoy this, to really take in the experience as a whole, not stress but enjoy the process. Over the long term in practice, I can see myself getting annoyed and say f**k it -- especially after spending probably thousands.

    But, I'm sure there is a certain level/amount of money to spend on gear to get a really solid taste of what vinyl could be without head-diving into that rabbit hole. I knew setup was important but you experienced folks are really hammering that point home, so thank you!

    Perhaps if time permits, a no-bullshit setup instruction manual for us vinyl ignoramuses could be provided or trusted links/stickies (like the Azimuth thread, for example).

    I clearly have a lot of reading to do before I go out and listen to anything.
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yeah, I'd like to set up resources for TT setup like the Azimuth thread with measurements, techniques, etc.

    I really wish @schiit would hurry up and finish the Sol. That table would be a game changer - so smartly designed.
     
  14. Cakecake

    Cakecake Guest

    Would love to have a resource here, was watching AXPOXA 2014 Turntable setup video and looks a bit complicated.

    Do you still think it will just be a Pro-ject, Rega killer or something more along the lines of classic 1?
     
  15. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Friend

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    I read these posts comparing a DAC vs Vinyl and it's hard for me to compute.

    I've done the Headphones + DAC thing since I was a wee lad and it's comparing apples to oranges really.

    With vinyl, while the table DOES make a big difference with sound, so does the arm and cart and phono-pre, etc. There's so many variables it can't really be considered a static item like a Yggdrasil where you roll interconnects and USB/SPDIF. If it's not matched well or not aligned right or on a flat stable surface it can sound like crap yet still cost $$$$.

    I liken listening to vinyl more like a lifestyle; the good records tend to cost more money and with pressings no one pressing sounds identical to another. Lots of hunting and gathering and heartache and learning experiences. It's like finding particular masterings for CD's or SACD but now twice as difficult.

    So if you see what I write is a convoluted mess then you would be right; having and maintaining a vinyl rig is work compared to using a DAC.

    When I hear Marv come in and say the Kuzma > Yggdrasil A2, I personally read into that as I find that the overall enjoyment from listening to records is greater than I get from hearing a really nice digital chain. It does have a part to do with overall sound quality but probably much less than what you are thinking.

    Also for the record none of my current stable of turntables cost more than $1k but the record collection? Well let's just say that's where all of my old headphone gear churn money eventually turns up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  16. Cakecake

    Cakecake Guest

    made my post clear so it doesnt keep getting repeated.

    appreciate your insight tho


    Didnt mean this to be vinyl vs digital thread, i just wanted to know how far analog 2 has come along because none of my close sbaf has heard it yet and I am moving soon and i would need to invest in a source
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2018
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Should I ship the Yggdrasil A2 to the NY crew?
     
  18. jmcmasterj

    jmcmasterj Friend

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    @Hooncake

    I have a Yggdrasil A2 you can listen to.
     

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