USB Nervosa Thread Decrapifiers, pro interfaces, and bears oh my

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by zerodeefex, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. Yuanathan

    Yuanathan New

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    Thanks for the insight!

    Waiting eagerly on the measurement and sonic impressions :)

     
  2. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    With the Gungnir Multibit it is difficult to tell if it increased sonic performance simply because I only had the Gungnir Multibit as a loaner so I really don't know how the Gungnir Multibit sounds without the Intona as I had the Intona connected to the Gungnir Multibit throughout the loaner. As far as the Bifrost Uber goes (not multi-bit) - it did seem to improve the sonic performance a bit, now that could be a placebo effect, however there is no doubt that both DACS recieved USB data at fast transfer rates with no round-trip latency. Neither DAC had any noise introduced in the signal chain, and the sound on the Bifrost seemed more "cleaner and clear" and a bit better resolution, and quiet passages didn't have that "airy" sound going on in the background similar to the "Turbo Clock Effect" which can happen with any USB interface that does a good job re-buffering and re-clocking the signal - (I was unable to tell with the Gungnir Multibit, since the Gungnir Multibit is a far superior DAC than the Bifrost so I could not tell if it was the Gungnir Multibit that just naturally sounds that good or if the Intona made it sound even cleaner).

    One thing is for sure, both DACS had incredible USB transfer rates, with no ground-loop issues or any introduction of noise from the Intona. The biggest and most noticeable difference was the transfer rates from my host computer and the DACS via USB.

    So it is a little difficult to answer your question about sonic differences, like I said with the Gungnir Multibit, it was natural that it would sound much better than the Bifrost Uber (not multi-bit) - but like I said the Bifrost did sound "cleaner" perhaps as a result of getting the higher USB transfer speeds and no round-trip latency (I even tried different sized USB cables, I usually use short USB cables as a lot of members recommend, but just as a test, I tired using a 10-foot long USB cable to see if it affected USB transfer rates, but even with the 10-foot long USB cable, there was no effect on USB transfer rates and still no round trip latency, even with the extremely long USB cable.
     
  3. Hekeli

    Hekeli Facebook Friend

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    What the heck does "higher USB transfer speeds and no round-trip latency" mean and how do you measure it? I woulda thought USB 2 is USB 2 and it transfer according to spec.. does it suddently turn from speed of electrics to light?
     
  4. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    round-trip latency... That's what causes those annoying echoes you might sometimes hear.

    |{
     
  5. Mamba

    Mamba Friend

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    Ordered my Intona after the guys at the Phasure board started making positive comments. Got my industrial version last night, and it's been playing continuously since. Initial impressions are that the noise floor is lower, and dynamic contrasts are greater as a result. I can find no negative at the moment. I was expecting a subtle improvement, but it's more audible than I expected.

    If you order one, you can request the "No Flash Mod" in the Paypal notes. This changes the behavior of the LED lights, so that they stay on constantly when the device is in high speed mode. Normal behavior is that the lights will blink. There is no cost to do so, and it may improve things that last 0.0001%. Plus I don't like blinky things when I'm listening at night.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  6. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    Thank you for your impressions @Mamba !

    I encourage anyone who has purchased the Intona USB Isolator to post their thoughts and impressions here ;)
     
  7. JoshMorr

    JoshMorr Friend

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    So against my better judgement and basic understanding of computers and digital signals I went ahead and purchased a Wyrd. I was experiencing frequent cut outs and thought worst case scenario it might help with this. I viewed the WYRD to be a USB insurance policy (maybe it does something, maybe it doesn't, but it cant hurt to put it in the signal chain).

    The logic that eventually pushed me over the edge was trying to think why Schiit would make such a product. They seem like a very honest company (what every old lady says right before getting scammed) and if this USB decrapifier didn't do anything, why would they release it? Why would a company built on a honest approach with their customers over the years, and doesn't this risk all of that? I decided it was worth the gamble. Hopefully over the long term I can tell if it made a significant improvement.

    It has fixed the signal cutting out perfectly. Sonically, I am impressed with the sound, but I sincerely don't know if it has actually improved overall sound. I want to say I hear better separation between instruments and a small amount of improvement in the clarity, everything seems just a bit crisper. I could also attribute this to some type of bias, not wanting to look like a turd for spending $100 on a "expensive 1-device usb hub", or whiskey.
     
  8. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    If you're receiving cut outs in the audio, and the Wyrd fixes that, then it doesn't really matter if any other improvement is bias or not, IMO.

    I'd love to hear some more impressions on the Intona. It's a lot more expensive than the other options, but from what I've read about these various devices, I think it's also the most likely to improve the chain.
     
  9. firev1

    firev1 Friend

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    @The Alchemist , I have tried various USB isolators*(full blown galvanic solutions) and they are the only ones that really really work against ground loop noise, not to disregard the Schiit and Regen that also do work but are totally different in application. Kind of interesting that its really only in 2015/2016(I have been searching around for years) that a full blown high speed solution is developed.

    Without hearing it and just looking at cost of parts/dev, the fact that its high speed compliant alone makes it worth every buck. Whether the price is worth it for audio applications, its totally up to you. For the poor plebs like myself, still hoping that TI adds a similar device to its profile of isolation chips to bring down the cost.

    *heard and measured in FFT
     
  10. Smitty

    Smitty Too good for bad vodka - Friend

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    I just bought Judeus' industrial version, if there's any magic to be had I'll post about it.
     
  11. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    @firev1 From my personal experience, I can say the Intona USB High Speed Isolator is awesome. It did wonders for my latency. And maybe it is just my imagination, but it seems that after adding it to my setup, it made my Bifrost Uber (not multi-bit - gosh I want to upgrade to multi-bit so badly, but i seems that it will be a while before I can do so) seem cleaner, and had a bit more resolution. The Bifrost Uber sounds better to my ears with the Intona USB High Speed Isolator in my chain.
     
  12. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

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    Okay so a mini review, i bought an intona industrial on a whim out of pure curiosity. There are so many of these usb gizmoes all claiming audio nirvana its nice to see one with no such claims. I opened her up and this thing is no joke. It has 2 spartan FPGAsin it, one on the "dirty" side and one on the "clean" This device provides a new clean ground and a new clean 5v as well as reclocking the data and removing, 8khz packet noise, something no dother hi speed usb 2.0 gadget can do that im aware of. I also purposely created a ground loop to see if it would fix it and it did! Good stuff.

    In terms of sonics compared to my wyrd and iusb 3.0 its hard to say. I want to say sharp transients sounded a but softer with the intona in the chain. Maybe I was just hearing things though. For 280/380 bux though it is a solid price for what your getting in terms of the hardware. 2 fpgas, extremely high grade crytal occilator and high grade regulators.

    I do recommend it.
     
  13. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I suspect I'll splurge on one when I upgrade my DAC.
     
  14. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    The Intonia High-Speed USB Isolator would be a great addition to your setup, especially if you get a good DAC. Like I said, that is my opinion, but it did wonders for my Bifrost and the Gungnir Multibit loaner.
     
  15. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I'm eyeing either a Gungnir Multibit or Yggdrasil. Does the Yggdrasil need something like this with its Gen 3 board? Or would it still be beneficial to clean the source before putting it into the Yggdrasil?
     
  16. Judeus

    Judeus Facebook Friend

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    Yggdrasil uses 5v power and references ground so i will say yes, although ymmv
     
  17. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    I checked Intona's website but did not see anything about a return policy if your not satisfied, but it does come with a warranty. You can always contact Intona and see if they have a return policy if you are not satisfied.
     
  18. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I'm sure by the time I actually pull the trigger on the new DAC, someone will have tried it on a Yggdrasil and chimed in. :)
     
  19. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Audio cut-outs/drop-outs? That's quite a problem to expect some sort of decrapifier to fix. Can't help thinking that, if one did fix it, something else is going on there.

    Audio cutting out is most likely a problem such as DPC latency, a broken conductor in a cable, or even a bad connection.This fix looks like a something-else-happened-here fix, to me. Or even one of those coincidences that seem to happen, sometimes, with computers, where we never actually get to the bottom of the what and why.
     
  20. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    I agree with @Thad E Ginathom - While the Schiit Wyrd is great as a decrapifier and can help with strange noises from your USB DAC, trouble recognizing your DAC, that could be due to noisy USB power, or USB port power management, the problem could be USB latency, or round trip latency.

    In my personal experience, the Intona High-Speed USB Isolator fixes these issues. Like I stated in my review, there was virtually no latency or noise issues at all with the Intona USB Isolator in my signal chain, I even tested it using a very long, 10 foot USB cable to test if latency was affected by a long USB cable, but the USB transfer speed was still the same as when I was using short USB cables 3-feet or less.

    The Intona High-speed USB Isolator uses Ultra-quiet power rail isolation, linear regulation, Impedance controlled high-speed circuit design, Isolation withstands up to 2.5kVRMS Advanced ESD protection (15kV IEC Air-gap Discharge), Transparent to host and device: wide compatibility to all operating systems, embedded systems and devices, Impedance controlled high-speed circuit design plus many other features.

    It was able to reduce my latency from my host to my DAC by a significant amount, from a 50ms buffer, to a mere 2ms buffer with no audio dropout, stuttering due to slow USB transfer rates, and it even stopped JRiver MC21 (my Host Software) from crashing as it did quite often, most likely due to not receiving the USB signal fast enough.

    I am not claiming that the Intonia is the end-all to your USB issues, however in my personal experience with it, it solved all of my USB and latency issues, and that is not an exaggeration. I would seriously look into it. Now if the Shciit Wyrd solves all of your USB issues that is great, as the Schiit Wyrd is a great unit without a doubt, and can solve a lot of USB issues (and is much cheaper), however I would seriously consider giving the Intona High-SPeed USB Isolator a try.

    You can contact Intona to see if they have a return policy so you can try it out without risk.
     

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