Verum Audio - Exciting high performance DIY planar

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by cskippy, May 24, 2018.

  1. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Verum 1 sounds ok from my old iphone. Why nobody believes me? ;( Iphone has about 1 ohm of output impedance and can go loud without any noticeable distortion from my 5S.
    Also it sound rather good ( rather good > ok) using 20$ whistle tempotec sonata hd cable
    [​IMG]
    Also I was told but didn't tried it myself that Verum 1 sounds rather good from 10$ dodocool da134
    [​IMG]

    All other phones including Galaxy S8, S9, LG V30, some meizu with sabre chip etc sounded awfull with my creation.
     
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  2. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    You need to question what you read more, and explore things for yourself, then question that too. Objectivity where it comes to audio is not what it presents itself as. A narrow set of measurments based on playing back beeps and boops tells us very little to nothing at all about various aspects of audio reproduction.

    Can confirm, they’re worlds apart in headphone terms. Frequency response is great on the QC35 when DSP is enabled as EQ is applied, not bad but rough in passive mode. They’re HD6x0 like with more bass. Verum 1 has less bass, less upper mids, and more upper treble.

    Agreed, they’re easy to drive, and still produce good performance. On the other hand I’ve had a Dragonfly Red via CCK 3.0 shut down each time I increase volume too high. Happens with an externally powered Fulla 2 as well but only at levels that would be unsafe. I presume this is due to the Verum 1’s having such a low impedence and drawing too much current. Apple’s headphone dongle doesn’t have this issue however, but I cannot remember for certain whether I could get enough volume from it or not.

    I might actually get around to reviewing mine when life stops getting in the farking way, trying to hold on to the LCD-2C and Mjolnir 2 until I do. Pain in the butt the stock cable can’t be reterminated to balanced though.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
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  3. Shane Coughlan

    Shane Coughlan Rando

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    Thank you @Lyer25, both for your notes and welcome. To clarify, I don’t reject subjective appreciation of sound, and in the end I believe all of this is a hobby for fun, I’m sorry if my message did not make this clear.

    Hi @purr1n. I am sorry that my post rubbed you the wrong way. That was not my intention. Quick notes.

    I said 16/44 is around the upper limit of human hearing fidelity and noted that going to 24/44 includes more dynamic range and can be noticeable to those with good hearing. I did not want to suggest that 16/44 is a hard limit but likewise I have personally never encountered anyone or seen double-blind evidence of anyone who goes far beyond this. I would be happy to be pointed towards measurements showing otherwise.

    As per @Garuspik’s notes, the iPhone has about 1 ohm of output impedance, and should therefore have no trouble running the Verum 1.

    I do not expect Verum 1 to have the same sound profile as a QC35 and I do not see the QC35 sound profile as an ideal for others to match. I’m looking to explore a new sound profile and Verum 1 appears to offer an interesting opportunity for that.

    Verum 1 attracted me for two reasons:
    I have been curious about the ability of open planar headphones to drive plenty of detail without becoming too brittle
    @Garuspik is a fan of speakers, tuned these headphones to provide a speaker-like performance, and that is ideal for my small apartment.

    Finally, I brought up the websites mentioned for the benefit of future readers who may learn of these headphones and become curious for the same reason as myself. Not from a audiophile background nor necessarily greatly versed in or adherent to concepts like the perceived value of stereo home setups or analogue sources. However, reaching the limits of current equipment, appreciating great sound more and more over time, and happy to explore a little further as a treat. I know you know these resources.

    I planned to describe this journey in a series of posts via the Verum 1, leaving a trail of notes to potentially assist others from a similar background, though the immediate hostility I have encountered here is making me rethink that. I suspect I will not be the only person deterred in such a manner.

    I believe you :)

    Hi @BenjaminBore. Guidance and suggestions for improvement are always welcome. Conversely, comments like saying a first post is a “...bunch of contradictory nonsense no one gives a shit about...” are hard to read as anything but toxic.

    To your specific comment, I have questioned a great many things and read a great deal around this area, and I have tried a reasonable if not super extensive amount of equipment. I found it fascinating that the eventual endpoint of my journey to get a new toy lead me to the Verum 1.

    It was not super surprising to end up at headphones (for the reasons noted to @purr1n above), but a left-field first generation hand built product from Ukraine? With a substantial weight and size? And a strange and conspicuous headband that looks like cat ears? That was super surprising. Doubly so when considering that I spend about 30% of my time on the road and therefore normally seek something portable.

    So why Verum 1?

    It almost was not. The MDR-1A, HD660S and HD800S were top on my list of consideration. Three very different headphones at three very different price points. I kept coming back to the HD660S due to a mix of how they sounded and their price point. It was this 350~500 USD space that I began to see as my target area for investment in my hobby. Then I spread my wings in this price range and started to really look around to make sure I did not miss anything interesting.

    At this point, as noted above, Verum 1 attracted me for two reasons:
    I have been curious about the ability of open planar headphones to drive plenty of detail without becoming too brittle
    @Garuspik is a fan of speakers, tuned these headphones to provide a speaker-like performance, and that is ideal for my small apartment.

    I simply did not expect to find something in this price range offering these features. Indeed, I had shuffled this concept off to “perhaps later when I buy a HD800S”, albeit with some reservations about how brittle the HD800S sounds to me. It was so surprising that I was willing to forgo portability, normally a hard line for me.

    Hitting purchase did I expect an HD800S killer? No. I expect something that is probably comparable to the HD600 series in audio fidelity with a little more range in the bass. Reviews appear to bear this out. That is pretty exciting, especially given it undercuts the HD660S by about 100 USD in Japan. Even more exciting is the backstory. These headphones are being built using an open process by an enthusiast with some new ideas. It is a gamble but it is also strangely fitting after a lot of wandering around.

    And will the truth (for me) show that the Verum 1 is a great solution? Will it make my music sound better? Will I turn on these headphones instead of my HomePod? Will I pick up these headphones when I watch Netflix on my tablet? In preference to my Yamaha YAS 207 when watching a movie on TV? That’s what I will find out in six weeks.

    It was my intent to share this journey in this forum, and leave a record for people with a similar use profile.

    As a final note, if a forum is called Super Best Audio Friends - and there is an intent to share this hobby with new people - being friendly is a good starting point. A hobby is no fun if people spend time and energy being nasty to each other. It is certainly not going to encourage growth of the hobby.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
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  4. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

    But on a serious note, that looks like an essay you really committed time into editing and writing and crap about your purchase decisions and justifications and stuff, things people aren't particularly interested in by themselves. Wait until you've received the thing, try it out on the iphone and report back if it works. About your noticing the mood around here, its more bar friendly than blue collar office friendly if thats what you're assuming.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
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  5. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Please don't.

    Alas, and you are not one of them.

    --

    Please read this; https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/must-read-for-new-members.3/

    I am happy that you are exited about the Verum, but SBAF is not quite the place for a stranger to share their audio journey. There are certain protocols and initiations required for new members for acceptance into this community. SBAF has a culture of less is more, unless you are actually funny, interesting, or entertaining, which you do not appear to be.

    In the meantime, your journey would be much more appreciated at Head-Fi.com. Head-Fi is x20 larger than SBAF with an audience much more accepting of posts that SBAF would consider tl;dr. Alternatively, start a blog and quietly note your blog URL in your signature line.

    Please don't take this the wrong way. Our intent is to help you find an appropriate audience for your audiophile journal.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
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  6. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    No more dissertation posts, please! Just lurk more and relax.
     
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  7. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. Suppa92

    Suppa92 Rando

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    You mean all the DACs with Sabre chips or just the devices you mentioned?
    If so, What kind of DAC you recommend? DACs with AKM chips?
     
  9. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    No, I simply say that mobile sabre without dedicated amp chip don't have enough current to drive Verum 1. I do like the sound signature of Sabre 9028 and 9038 and from my opinion Verum 1 headphones and sabre dacs compensate flaws of each other.
    But as my usual rule - i prefer not to say anything about the sound of my creations. Let other people judge.
     
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  10. Suppa92

    Suppa92 Rando

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    I was just wondering that, is there any engineering reason to set the Verum 1's resistance at 8 ohms or it just happens to be 8 ohms once you finalised the project.
     
  11. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    8 is a sacred number in Ukrainian mythology. Once 8 red commissars founded Ussr.
     
  12. Suppa92

    Suppa92 Rando

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    I just asked because of I wanted some technical informational to understand how to match it with my amp. If you felt that the question I asked is offensive, I'm sorry for that, I didn't really mean that. You could have said that "you don't want to answer for it". I was genuinely interested in your product. Thanks anyway for response.
     
  13. OldDude04

    OldDude04 Friend

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    That is called a joke....

    @Garuspik has been extremely forthright with information regarding all aspects of his headphones.
     
  14. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Hey, how can I decide that this is a offense? I've answered that question many times. Ok, no problem - i'll answer it again.
    Verum 1 has rather thick and rather wide traces. That's why resistance is low. That was made for durability.
    Right now ZERO membranes were dead. Unfortunately in first batches SOMETIMES!!! there was bad contact between wire and membrane that caused dis-balance. Problem was solved and each person with that problem received a replacement. During almost 250 pcs of current batch no single problem has happened. So.. I prefer to make very durable membrane but disadadvantage - low ohm load.
     
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  15. crenca

    crenca Acquaintance

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  16. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    So I got myself a pair of these through some trade shenanigans. I honestly haven't paid much attention to this thread nor any reviews, so I'd like to think my ramblings are relatively unfettered. Here are my initial impressions:
    - very wide soundstage
    - soft on impacts
    - good bass extension
    - overall FR balance seems really good, though maybe sloped down at the top
    - vocals nice, but upper end not as crisp (then again, this coming from an HE-6 nutjob)
    - comfy but warm up quickly
     
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  17. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Maybe this is my sleep deprived 70hr work week brain speaking, but you know what @Garuspik should do? He should pick up that speaker-made-from-line-array-planar-headphone-drivers project that Audeze abandoned...
     
  18. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    I'm working now at Verum 2 and very affordable planar tweeter that should cover 1.5-20 khz.
     
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  19. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    Sorry if this has been answered before, but is Verum 2 intended to be a higher or lower priced model compared to Verum 1?
     
  20. Golmang

    Golmang Friend

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    Should be higher. Verum 0.5 or the single-sided magnet version is already a lower model.
     
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