Verum Audio - Exciting high performance DIY planar

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by cskippy, May 24, 2018.

  1. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    After I've made higher tension impulse response become even better. Verum is not champ in micro details, but dynamics is clearly a strong side of this project.
     
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  2. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Facebook Friend

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    To me, planar is mostly about the linear response with deep bass and tight clean low end. Micro details are good and all, but sometimes you hear something so tasty and juicy you just don't care about the fine "plankton" and all that stuff. some of the most liked headphones on the market are very technically flawed. People love Hifiman headphones with insanely loud sharp "ortho wall" ringing and sawtooth frequency response, because they do other things so well.

    It's always better to aim for a specific sound and do one thing really well, rather than making compromises all over the place just to try and do everything.
     
  3. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Facebook Friend

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    Hands' mesurements show some oddities in the treble. Is that the result of the higher tension?
     
  4. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    After trying out the susvara for about half an hour, i've realized orthodynamic planars are never going to do treble perfectly. Despite stat people calling dynamics grainy, i've never heard grain as prominent on dynamics as on the susvara. I don't find it as annoying as the focal ringing but its definitely not as good as 650 treble to me, though the bass and mids were quite amazing. I do approve of higher tension, as long as it doesn't make the planar grain too prominent. The LCD2C had the same kind of grain too but it wasn't too prominent because of reduced treble and less tension(?). Its a tough sweetspot to hit so good luck. Just a question though. What do you think about pleating the diagphram like AMTs and MrSpeakers?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
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  5. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Almost "Made"

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    PMx2s are right there with HD650 if you care for smooth and linear treble response. In fact, PMx2s are ahead in that regard IMHO. But PMx2s are just an exception rather than a rule, true.
     
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  6. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    That why i mentioned orthodynamic. PMx2s are isodynamic planar designs with concentric magnet rings around the center of the diagphram (a recent thread has an image of the design). These designs are not subjected to the kinds of breakup orthos have (I think ortho planars definitely do break up but differently from dynamics, since we've had cases of planar diagphrams literally tearing from tension breakup). Subjectively, when I tried them out of the RME ADI pro 2, they were a bit boring sounding, very neutral and listenable like you said but not much going on technicalities wise, yes even less exciting than the 650s, and didn't have that awesome ortho bass like the susvaras and lcd2c had. I summed them up as sounding super damped.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  7. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    I do like that technology but not ready to implement it on membrane of such size. I'll receive very noticeable break up effects.

    @Hands and @cskippy headphones has identical frequency response, but their measurements rigs are absolutely different (as far as I understood Hands puts microphones in his own ears). That's why we see different measurements and because of that we can compare only cans that were measured by the same person on the same rig.
     
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  8. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Almost "Made"

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    Ah, now I see, thanks for the clarification!

    I would just like to add to your comment that at least my rev2 PMx2s with velour pads (from rev1 version) are no less impressive in terms of bass depth and rumble than some great planars Ive compared it with side by side (LCD4, HE6, LCD2C, ...). I would say that bass of the mentioned headphones may be a bit more clean and precise but otherwise dont hear PMx2s (at least my pair) to be lacking anything in bass department. I know that Alex mentioned my pair sounded somewhat more impactful in bass to him (he referred to the velour pads with that comment) but I still wonder why people call PMx2 bass shy. I would say the complete opposite actually - mine has more fullness and rumble than any of the headphones mentioned above, at least based on the side by side comparisons.

    Sorry for the little offtopic but wanted to reach out and defend PMx2s a bit, to offer a different perspective compared to likely a common consensus on SBAF.
     
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  9. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Facebook Friend

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    That's what I was hoping it was. It was just so different that I wasn't sure if that would be it.
     
  10. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    A minute of boasting :D

    Z reviews released a new review of Aune S7 amp and part of this video is a small preview of Verum headphones.



    Yes, they're efficient. Yes, they can be driven by good smartphone or mid-level player. Maybe it's a bit naive but I want to create mass-market product in terms of price and amplification but with an audiophile approach to build and sound.
     
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  11. Jinxy245

    Jinxy245 Vegan Puss

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    For those interested, the Verum appears almost exactly at the 10 minuet mark...
     
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  12. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Facebook Friend

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    Those of you who have heard these: can you compare them to anything, like Audeze or Hifiman, in terms of tonality/tuning?

    Specifically, between He-500/560 and LCD2, which are two lineages that share the "flat up to 1K, treble stays below that level" type tuning, yet one is nright and the other dark and deep. Where do the Verums fall onnthat scale, and do they remind you of anything else?
     
  13. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Well, my impressions/measurements had thoughts compared to the LCD-2C at least.

    HE-560 sounds bright as hell to me and lean on top of that. Been too long since I've heard HE500. Hifimans in general, though, sound brighter and rougher up top than the Verum with a similar low end.
     
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  14. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Facebook Friend

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    Nice!

    That settles it. I'm gunna skip on the 560 and go Verum.

    The frequency response has a bit of roughness to it starting at the lows. It's not a lot, but it's there. What I liked from the 560's graph was how clean that line was. But I'm thinking that's just a visual thing. It's a good technical trait, but I would rather enjoy listening to it!

    What is it that defines how smooth the frequency response is in a planar, I wonder?
     
  15. Youngarthur

    Youngarthur Rando

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    When they appear on Kickstarter,can someone provide a link of some sort, as at 78 years old, I am not very good at these sort of things!.
     
  16. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Hm, I wonder who will provide that link on all forums, sites and youtube channels?
    Maybe it will be me? :D
     
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  17. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Facebook Friend

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    Do you have any thoughts on the "roughness" of the frequency response? Obviously it's not VERY rough, and it's not like high end planars are all super smooth, of course. But the reason I originally had plans to get a pair of HE560's was because the frequency response from 20Hz to 1KHz is like a straight line. No squiggles, no bumps. Very clean. But then of course the rest of the frequency response looks questionable above that. Yours looks way better overall, but the measurements posted here shows some "roughness".

    In one of my t50RP mods, I realized the acoustic damping of the driver was directly responsible for cleaning it up and making the frequency reaponse smooth without bumps. Do you think your design can be dampened more without messing with the sub bass extension and all that? I'll probably end up testing some mods on it regardless because I'm crazy like that, and I'll be doing measurements like crazy because it's so satisfying somehow :p
     
  18. Jinxy245

    Jinxy245 Vegan Puss

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    Just an opinion here, but try not to go all graph gaga, I think it can drive you crazy in the end.

    I know that if you can't hear them that's all you have other than impressions, but there seems to be too many variables to get a good sonic picture. What rig, what environment measured, etc etc etc.

    I'm sure you know all this, but the graphs taken with the impressions from people who heard these cans should get you closer to an accurate sonic picture (IMO etc). Especially if your familiar with the person (people) giving the impressions.

    I do appreciate your attention to detail though...
     
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  19. Garuspik

    Garuspik Tovarisch Ukrainian Terminator MOT - Verum

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    Instead of 1000 words - audeze LCD2 vs Verum on same stand:
    [​IMG]
    Sorry, don't see anything rough.
     
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  20. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Facebook Friend

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    What I'm referring to is the zig-zag stuff between 200Hz and 1KHz. Above 1K they are both wiggly, as everything is that high up, but up to 1K the Audeze is very well-behaved and smooth/flat.

    Understand that I don't see this as a BAD thing, it's just a technicality that interests me.

    Edit: I remember Kennerton planars looking like they got hit by lightning at around 400 Hz and up, so yours are waaay better than some of the "premium" stuff out there. It's ACTUALLY premium!
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
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