Vintage DACs

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Luckbad, Apr 26, 2016.

  1. rshuck

    rshuck Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Bridgeport, WV
    I am in the market. I have seen the (quite) inflated prices of some. There's a 1000P on eBay for $2750 which I would not purchase. I'd like to stay below 1500 for this, but I am thinking it'd be better to go with a Gungnir Multibit. Granted it doesn't have all the features of the 1000P.
     
  2. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,840
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    SQ wise, I would likely say a Gungnir Multibit is better.
    Featurewise, yeah the 1000P is has far more features.

    Now...YMMV. I am only referencing the TDA1541 DAC's I have heard. Now, it likely is limited in sample rate as well, but that is only if you care about high res. Gungnir Multibit is a similar idea...dual chips in a true balanced configuration. I would likely say that you would get more detail out of the Gungnir Multibit. The high price of that Nak is the rarity and of the overbuild quality.
     
  3. rshuck

    rshuck Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Bridgeport, WV
    It does 32/44.1/48, which is plenty for me. I think I only own two albums with a higher sample rate, both of which I own the CD for as well. I think if I can find one for a reasonable price I'll pick it up, and grab a Gungnir Multibit in the mean time.
     
  4. StefanAC

    StefanAC Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Germany
    I really think that the TDA1540 is undervalued - in no oversampling mode and with improved output stage (plus other mods) it is just great, with a gorgeous analog like sound. I keep coming back to my Philips CD-304 as listening to it is utterly relaxing. But I’m just another CDM-1 slut...
     
  5. RiddleyWalker

    RiddleyWalker Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    310
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    Question for you knowledgeable folks. My Theta Prime IIA is performing just fine, but it is getting up there in the years (was manufactured ~1994). I’m wondering what components will likely need to be replaced in the near future, and if there is a shop I can contact for service.
     
  6. murray

    murray Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    478
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    N.Z.
    Usually the electrolytic capacitors after that amount of time. Relatively easy to replace for a competent technician. Also, give the circuit boards a good eye-balling for dry solder joints (a source of intermittent failures).
     
  7. Scubadude

    Scubadude Almost "Made"

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Pretoria, South Africa
    I got a Theta DS Pro Progeny earlier this week. Beautifully made and sounds beautiful too. It is the first time in two decades that I've heard a Theta DAC and I am more than a little impressed. How could they have made such a good sounding DAC so long ago? And what happened since? More bits and higher sampling rates? But I digress ...

    Some aspects I remember clearly like the strong transient response, deep base and rich timbre. But from memory I also expected to hear some brightness or glare ... The Theta rep back then used to say " it's not bright, it's deeeetaail". Now I hear a lot less detail and brightness than I remember. Could it be that the Nuprime uDSD I use as transport is so much better than what we had available in the day? Or is just my 40something ears failing me?
     
  8. manatworks

    manatworks Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    226
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Anyone know How much Gen Va going nowadays? Found one for 1700$ annnnd i think thats’s a bit high for vintage unit.
     
  9. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Likes Received:
    7,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Canada
    I have Gungnir Multibit (probably a couple years old), and thinking about one of these vintages DACs just to try out and see what they sound like. All of my music is 16/44.

    Thinking about the Theta Gen V (not VA) or SFD-1 MkII (not SE+).

    Would I gain in any aspect of the sound over Gungnir Multibit with either of these?
     
  10. The Dragon

    The Dragon New

    Joined:
    May 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Madison, AL
    I have a couple vintage DACs I like to use. All are made by Aragon. I have the following models:
    1. original model D2A (PCM58-based) - uses an external power supply and discrete analog section
    2. MK2 version of above (still PCM58-based) - has some additional PC boards installed in the analog section.
    3. model D2A2 (PCM63-based) with UltraAnalog and HDCD filter

    The D2A units have polarity remote switches. All sound absolutely amazing when used with my Emotiva ERC-3 CD player or connected to my PC via a Schiit Eitr. I also have a Modi MB and it doesn't quite compete with them for 16/44 material.

    My only DAC that sounds better (and not by a lot) is my new Chord Qutest.
     
  11. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Toronto, ON, Canada
  12. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,840
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    I am not familiar with this DAC off hand, but I'd say that is priced about right. It is dual PCM63, Mike Moffat's absolute favorite, but it is limited by the Yamaha YM3623 input chip. Not the best with jitter. Some have been able to make some circuit mods to help, but that input chip is not easily switched out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  13. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    7,986
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver BC
    Did you see this one?

    http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649449614-theta-digital-pro-basic-ii/

    Busted input selector - for which the seller should be prepared to come down a bit more - but that could probably be replaced fairly easily...
     
  14. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Toronto, ON, Canada
  15. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,321
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Personally I'd take any of these over the schiits unless you need the warranty.
     
  16. haywood

    haywood Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Likes Received:
    763
    Trophy Points:
    93
  17. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    9,589
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    Home Page:
    Any more impressions of the Monarchy M22? How might it compare to the SFD-1?
     
  18. rikkitik

    rikkitik New

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Central Valley California
    Yes, I have.
    Sorry, I don't post here often as I'm an opinionated "speaker guy"...lol.
    Anyway, as to the Monarchy's, the 22 series (a,b, and c models) use the Yamaha input chip. The Monarchy M22, M24, and M33 all used PCM63 chips. Each used somewhat different output schemes. The M24 used the PCM63 and a 6922 tubed output. The NM24 is a 1704 chipped unit with 6922 outputs. The M33, M24, and NM24, also included a user selectable preamp section.
    As far as "sound" goes, I like the SFD-1mkII more than any of the 22's.
    For OS dac's, I think it would be Theta Va, Monarchy M24, then SFD-1 mkII. I still own one of each (though the Theta is toast).
    The 22's are nice though, and better than most of the other PCM63 implementations I've had/have...Adcom, Parasound, etc.
    Parasound 1000, 1500,1600, all used PCM63 chips.
    If this link works, you can research quite a few "older" cd / dac combos.
    http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/

    Actually, (to amend the above), the M22c always eluded me. It actually had dual/piggybacked PCM63's (!!) and a line stage. I have read it was pretty special, but never had the opportunity to listen to one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  19. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    9,589
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    Home Page:
    Just got the M22B in (traded it for a Violectric V200 which was for sale at ~400USD, so I suppose that's the "price" I paid). I've been told that this M22B has factory-upgraded caps. Confirming specifics with C C Poon soon. The 22B also has a line stage like the 22C, given the unbalanced output is marked as "line out". Not the case with 22A.

    I believe there was also an option to piggyback the chips in the A's and B's as well (or you could also have PCM1704's installed instead of PCM63's for 24-bit compatibility, though I don't know why you'd want to do that), but the piggyback PCM63s came stock with the C. C has it's own output potentiometer though, supposedly eliminating the need for a preamp.

    Anyway, this M22B has a very high unbalanced output (I don't currently have an amp that accepts balanced input so will comment on that later). I'm feeding it with the coax digital output from my V800 (currently for sale). In the chain M22B > Valhalla 2 (low-gain) > 6WPC @ 8Ohm ACA Monoblocks > LFF HE-6, the Valhalla 2 is hanging out around 10 or 11 o'clock. With the V800 as a source at stock gain, the Valhalla 2 pot was closer to 2-3. That's a monumental difference.

    I was considering getting a more powerful amp for the HE-6, but my feelings of under-powered-ness are completely gone. Maybe I'll change my mind when I hear the 6 from a Vidar at the next meet, but as of right now, microdynamic contrast is the best I've ever heard.

    Anyway, this DAC vaguely reminds of the famous Theta Gen V I had on extended loaner for a couple months from @Clemmaster (I'm going from memory so take everything with a grain of salt).

    They both share that trademark PCM63 R2R smoothness. Not sure how DAC jitter would present itself audibly, but this DAC is super smooth across the spectrum. Bottomless bass, excellent understated but present detail retrieval, no glare of any fashion.

    I can get more volume with the LFF 6 and 5LE without wincing from ugly D/S treble edginess too, which creates the perception of increased impact in the bass and mids. Fairly warm-sounding, but less thick and rich than Theta Gen V, with competitive soundstage and perceived resolution.

    As it stands, I hear my chain as "neutral" with just a light touch of warmth from the combination of the M22B into the Valhalla 2 w/ Amperex 7308's. I can now listen to oldies and pop music without my ears bleeding.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  20. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,894
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Joining the club with my new Theta DSPro Progeny from @PacoTaco
    Excuse the messy setup... temporary until I go back to college in about a week.
    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page