Xec needs listening/whisky room advice

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Xecuter, Oct 30, 2016.

  1. el Chefe

    el Chefe New

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    Very exciting Xec! Looking forward to follow the progress!
     
  2. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    I'll update with some daytime photos later, problem is I leave before the sun is up and get home when it's down at the moment.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Cryptowolf

    Cryptowolf Repping Chi Town - Friend

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    I’ll be following along to learn any tidbits. We have long term plans to build an extension by converting our deck into an enclosed space. Until then I’ll live vicariously through you. Best wishes for a successful build.
     
  4. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    Congrats on moving forward with this! I hadn't seen this thread before, I've purpose-built a couple of rooms for myself now so I'll be watching with interest.

    To clarify, this project includes a home theater, correct? I initially thought this was just speakers but your image and hardware list indicate a projector and screen. Not too much of a difference though it does indicate some different choices for front speakers, their placement and screen choice.

    Most of the gains you get through floating the physical construction go to keeping sound from traveling to other parts of the house, not to improving sound quality in the room itself. That includes floating ceiling, walls, and\or floors with clips or rubber, staggering joists so drywall is decoupled, using green glue, etc. Mass loading the walls (in-wall insulation, double or triple drywall, double studs, vinyl loading) does change the bass absorption but IMO that's better controlled through changeable room treatments if your concern is in-room sound quality. Those do all help with the isolation though.

    Bottom line, If you're not worried about late night bass waking the baby I think you made a good choice to skip that stuff.

    I found the same thing. I contacted several home theater builders, what I got was offers sell me marked up equipment. Many didn't even want to manage the construction, just quote and install electronics. If what you want is advice in construction and room treatments you gotta go the the acoustic design guys which is an added cost AND will make your construction team hate you. :) Its a real PITA.

    Since one of your prime concerns is resale I think you're right to really focus on the room treatments. Good luck with this all.

    EDIT: I forgot to add, I highly recommend The Master Handbook of Acoustics by Everest if you haven't read it yet. Highly valuable information for a project like this one. Any of the older editions should be just fine.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
  5. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    Floor in! Will be polished and sealed to match existing.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    I kicked this room out an extra foot. When we reno the bathroom adjacent I'll do the same. We have had engineering consultancy to ensure this won't affect the cantilever.

    [​IMG]

    Now over 7m long about 4m wide. 3m between the two poles which will be boxed in and plastered.

    Next step will take much longer. Going to remove the narrow window replace it with a solid core door, cover over the bathroom window. And close it in by late next week.
     
  6. dBel84

    dBel84 Friend

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    I love the colour / tones in the wood floor. What type of wood is this?

    Great project overall, would love to tackle something similar
     
  7. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    Just brushbox mate. Once it's sanded and finished will probably lose some of the colour but I'm really happy with the tones!
     
  8. el Chefe

    el Chefe New

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    Wow that floor is super beautiful!!! Bet it’s going to look bitchin when it’s finished ​
     
  9. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    Was just choosing an aircon model and was thinking of getting a black Mitsubishi. The 3.5kw model is only 21 dB in quiet mode.
    Not sure how black will look if someone paints the room white down the track.. I'm planning on painting it all black or doing black wallpaper.
    Thoughts?
     
  10. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    @Xecuter, some imagined future buyer can paint the unit along with the walls if they want to. Go with what works for you now.

    I know future resale is an important consideration in the choices we make for home renovations but sometimes I sigh over how much people give up now, sacrificing years of possible enjoyment from their environment for the possibility that somewhere down the road people wont like our choices.

    Given that, I could never get permission from the wife to go all black in the theater room ! Congrats on that.
     
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  11. Cryptowolf

    Cryptowolf Repping Chi Town - Friend

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    You may want to consider a dark navy blue? We painted our home theatre area dark navy blue and it works really well. When the lights are on, it’s a bit of color, and then when we turn the lights off, the glow of various lights from the TV and electronics hardly reflect. You could easily try paint samples of both to see what you prefer.
     
  12. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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    You should see the DUMPS that are selling for way above market here in Taos. Weird art-project houses. People will buy all kinds of crazy shit in a hot market. Make that room the way you want it, @Xecuter
     
  13. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    @ogodei it's not really going to be set up for anything more than 2.1 as I'm more of a listening guy than a movie guy.

    I don't really rate surround sound so building this as a 2.0 room for music but I'll put in a projector and comfortable seats for up to 4 people for movies or just chilling.

    [​IMG]

    We have framing!
    I had a read of that book you recommended. Fantastic reading. And reinforced a lot of what I had decided on.
    I did discuss with the builder and engineer about doing the joists offset but for the 10db benefit I think the more important thing for me to nail during the build is the low frequency absorption material volume to be as high as possible.

    P.s. sorry for the creepy night time photos. I'm never here during the day.
     
  14. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Ah whoops, you mentioned book and I thought you meant something like this
    Really enjoying the build log so far Xec.

    Have you decided how you're going to run A/C and ventilation yet?
     
  15. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    We got quotes to try squeeze a duct in which was gonna be insanely expensive and due to narrow piping and ceiling, so to preserve dimensions and be quieter, I'm opting with a split system, the outside part will be mounted on the ground so it doesn't transmit any vibration into the room.
    We are having all the aircon piping and electrics hidden in the wall during construction.

    I want to go the 3.5kw Mitsubishi in black because it has a quiet mode which is around 21db. However, there is a lack of supply so I might not get my first choice :/.

    Honestly we only run aircon here a few months of the year and this room will only cop the sun in the very late afternoon.

    Nah the book on acoustics @ogodei mentioned: Master Handbook of acoustics

    It explains tonnes of stuff. Really great resource and will be even more useful when trying to do internal treatment.

    I should get a mod to rename this thread since it's just turning into a build log.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
  16. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    You could always put up some heat reflective window film and maybe do a white walls/roof or even a sheathing roof type thing and that might be enough to skip the A/C entirely?

    If you get a split, don't forget to plan for a drain line somewhere.
     
  17. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    This part of the world you need AC for those super hot days, can always blast the aircon to get the temp comfy then put it on quiet mode. yep the drain is hidden in the wall and just drips into the garden.
     
  18. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    For what it's worth (and these are ACs at the other end of the price spectrum, modern entry level systems for roughly 1k€), I got to extensively compare a 2.5kW Comfee MASF5 AC to a TCL XA21 AC. The Comfee AC has a lowest fan speed that's specified at around 25dBA, while the TCL has a super low noise mode that's specified at 18dBA. As far as I know these measurements are at somewhere around 1 to 1.5m distance from the unit.

    In reality the TCL ended up being around 24dBA in the whisper mode, while the Comfee AC has a noticeably faster fan speed for its lowest fan speed in cooling mode. However in auto mode it will sometimes use a much slower fan speed similar to the TCL AC whisper mode. More importantly in dry mode it forces a low fan speed that is actually usable. In dry mode the Comfee AC is at a similar 24dBA at roughly 1.5m distance, but unlike the TCL AC there is still a very noticeable cooling effect at that noise level. I use my Comfee AC in dry mode most of the time, while my sister uses her TCL AC in the cooling mode at the lowest fan speed, which is 4-5dBA louder than the whisper mode. The TCL*s whisper mode probably won't maintain the temperature in the room, while the Comfee's dry mode does.
    Even on 30°C+ days I will normally use the cooling mode to achieve a target temperature and then keep running it in dry mode.

    So why is the Comfee AC overall superior in its cooling capabilites at the same fan speed? Physics. The TCL AC is a smaller unit with the same specified cooling capacity. Of course it will have to run its fans at a higher speed to achieve the same cooling effect and considering that the TCL is actually the more impressive unit. Both the indoor and outdoor units run at comparable noise levels, yet in a smaller footprint. I can't remember if I've uploaded the files comparing the two AC units, but they were of similar loudness, yet different tonality. My sister ended up needing a unit with a smaller footprint, but with the same 2.5kW cooling capabilities, so the TCL AC was perfect.

    Moral of the story: Don't read too much into the marketing and just get a large AC that is able to run at a low fan speed. Although I'm sure the Mitsubishi AC is much more likely to achieve its specified 20dB-ish quiet mode than the cheapo TCL.


    Sidenote: The app for the TCL AC doesn't even seem to support the whisper mode, so you would have to use the remote for that. It isn't very useful anyway. And somehow the german Alexa integration for the Comfee AC doesn't seem to support dry mode so you'd have to reach for your phone to set that. But those are just nitpicks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
  19. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Also as an oddball note that many people don't realize, don't oversize your AC. It will cycle too much (bad for equipment life) and drop temperature without properly dehumidifying, which in a worst case scenario can warp your wood floors etc.
     
  20. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    Bulkhead framing at the very rear of room in.
    Only gonna be around 8ft high the last couple of feet.

    Timber floor is lifting in a few places and even a few hairline cracks. Emailed the builder to ask about this but probably ok as it hasn't been finished and sealed yet.
    Small leak from some of the plumbing, needs to be sorted before we plaster and seal it all in (going to add a manhole because we plan to renovate the bathroom above in the future).

    Thanks @Serious for the in-depth review on those units! Also thanks @Armaegis I think a 3.5kw will be perfect and hoping they can get the black unit.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

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