Yggdrasil Refined - New Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 (Yaggy) Sound Impressions

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by David De Lucena, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    This is just so counter-intuitive to me that shutting it off for even a few minutes to an hour would cause a newer-ish Yggy to take weeks to return to optimal performance. What is it in the DAC that is so sensitive to thermal change? Why would it cool down so fast and warm up so slowly?
     
  2. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    Maybe the Yggy needs some kind of filament heating circuit to heat up the parts in question, or maybe some start-up over-current kind of thing. I can't imagine most reviewers having the luxury of time to let the DAC heat up for several weeks while the printing press hungrily awaits their verdict.

    Then there's also the thing that I for one like turning off all my electrical equipment when I leave the house, peace of mind in terms of fire safety and electrical bills and all that. Thankfully I agree with Marv and my Theta Gen Va is up to speed after only 5-10 minutes or so.
     
  3. JustAnotherRando

    JustAnotherRando My other bike is a Ferrari

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    There are some comments covering this in the Lyr thread. Doesn't seem to be a matter of temperature, but I don't pretend to understand electronics concepts (if anyone can explain in layman's terms that would be excellent).

    http://superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/lyr-3-discussion-thread.5946/page-18

    I don't like leaving gear on 24x7, it generates heat, and passively running a Gumby would cost $36 a year. Not much, but it'd just be sitting pushing heat into an already warm room most the time :/
     
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  4. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Thanks for that, it seems like I was taking "warm-up time" too literally.

    It appears the restarting process is largely independent of temperature (within reason) and more-so dependent on digital calculations that have to be redone upon start-up? If so, why would the calculation time decrease upon more use? Is the information stored?
     
  5. Andre Y

    Andre Y Friend

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    It's not calculations: it's the values of the resistors and other things that have to reach an equilibrium. Many resistors change their resistance with temperature: there's a spec for resistors called temperature coefficient which specifies how much a resistor changes its resistance per degree of temperature change. With a 20- or 21-bit DAC, small changes in the lowest bit resistors can have a big effect on the INL and other things that are measured at the lowest bit values (and therefore require the highest precision). And it's not necessarily 1 resistor or even many resistors reaching some value: it's about the whole system coming to equilibrium: you could have a resistor cooler on one side of the chip than the other, and you want both to be at the same temperature.

    I'm not saying that this is what's actually happening with Yggy warmup, but it's one valid physical way for this to happen.
     
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  6. Don Quichotte

    Don Quichotte Rando

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    This whole talk about temperature and electronic stabilization reminds me of a pro dac of multibit architecture called Lavry Gold DA924, no longer produced. Interestingly, it had an "oven" inside used to rapidly increase the temperature of and around of the critical circuits requiring it as part of its 2 steps self-calibration. This calibration procedure would initialize every time it was turned on from cold, but would be skipped if it was already warm. Maybe employing such a technology could have reduced the sometimes annoyingly long stabilization time required by the Schiit MB dacs? Overkill of Mimby, I agree, but maybe for the top-of-the-line Yggy...
     
  7. Andre Y

    Andre Y Friend

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    Yeah, I forgot Lavry did that. You can see it in this photo: http://pic.hifidiy.net/www/gallery/10-25/nEO_IMG_Lavry DA924 15.jpg

    There's a big white rectangular block in the upper left corner, which is a big power resistor, and it probably has some low resistance value, and they're running current into it, heating it up, and it in turn is heating up the chips with the gold tops underneath it, which are probably the DAC resistor networks. For good measure, it looks like it's also the heatsink for one of the voltage regulators.

    More photos here: http://www.hifidiy.net/index.php?s=/home/article/detail/id/6690.html
     
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  8. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    GAIN 1 ADC, used by Mobile Fidelity, designed by Moffat at Schiit, also had an oven inside. This is probably too much for a consumer device. Also, I'd rather Yaggy be $2500ish rather than $10k.
     
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  9. Thenewerguy009

    Thenewerguy009 Friend

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    Does running off the true sine UPS give it any discernible audiable improvements vs. connecting it to a wall outlet or surge protector in your opinion?
     
  10. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    The AD5791BRUZ (like all things involving analog) is also temperature sensitive and (from the datasheet) performs best (INL/DNL) between 25-45C.
     
  11. murray

    murray Friend

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    Do you turn off your refrigerator when you leave the house?
     
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  12. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    If mains power are clean to begin with, then probably not. But when traveling to meets and mains power might be questionable, plenty of laptops with SMPS supplies are present, then it provides a buffer preventing high frequency hash from entering the system. Some systems are more susceptible than others.
     
  13. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    Sure, make fun of the guy that cares about fire safety and energy conservation... seems like a good direction to go in.
     
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  14. murray

    murray Friend

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    Not really making fun. I actually know someone who switches off his main switch on the power board whenever he goes out. However, he has the refrigerator on a separate circuit out the back.
     
  15. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    Well, in this case... nope I guess. It's actually a tricky subject because as someone who lives in the EU I could be in a world of pain if it's proven that I had a non-CE certified piece of gear that caused a fire, insurance company might put up a fight. The Yggy is CE certified but my Theta and Sonett are not for instance. Of course, the risk is really small but I'd rather not leave it to chance. Peace of mind and all that. :p
     
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  16. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Friend

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    I thought it was actually just the DAC chip that needed the thermal stability...


    Maybe that's why I felt the yggy sound great when my room was already melting hot in summer..


    The yggy could probably burn and even explode internally and you would not know or see anything because of those think slabs of metal.

    Its heavy aluminum dual chasis...
     
  17. Andre Y

    Andre Y Friend

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    I'm referring to the resistors inside the DAC chips.
     
  18. drfindley

    drfindley Secretly lives in the Analog Room - Friend

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    [Raises his hand] Yup. It works great. I also put the plugged the UPS into a power inverter in my car. Still less than bringing a turntable to a meet!
     
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  19. Chris F

    Chris F Boyz 4 Now Fanatic - Friend

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    Finally got mine back today! Canadian friends be aware CSBA is going to ding you HST on the parts cost ($700USD for me) which ended up adding $125CDN for me to collect from Fedex. Also previously mentioned but you get a nice little upgrade sheet in the box. Mine checked in on my birthday... good karma I think?

    7D3CD716-4DFA-45AA-A631-F2718F27D0A9.JPG

    Total turnaround from order placed to yggy B was about three months and man am I glad to have it back. Maybe it sounds snobby and arrogant but you don't realize how much you miss good digital till you are stuck listening to a mid-fi DAC (a GOV2) for 6 weeks.

    Anyhow... serious impressions can wait a few weeks while I run signal through it but my first impression is that the sound is more natural (less forward/aggressive/edgy) than the original and this is a very very good thing. Also, the new USB input seems to be really good. On Yggy V1 I was using an Intona (with a Mutec MC3 going to AES) to dial back the sound a bit and take the edge off. With the Gen V USB my first impression is that the Intona makes things worse and is killing detail. No clue how the Mutec will interact will leave it out for the first few weeks.
     
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  20. David De Lucena

    David De Lucena Science Nut

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    How did noticed that?
     

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